Elite Dangerous is not a sandbox
- Thread starter Sisyphus
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The reason I asked is that Incarna was effectively shut down as a development path by many very vocally expressed opinions, namely that it added very little and detracted from the core of Eve's gameplay.
And of course that's fine. People find their game and they like it as it is. As I understand it, others have been disappointed that it led nowhere and others still have given up on Eve ever offering what they want from a space sim. And that is fine too. We all want different things from our games after all.
Elite Dangerous and Eve are two very different games and their sandboxes are built to facilitate very different styles of play. Eve's is designed to enable a Hobbesian playground of conflict and domination, where the stakes are high and the losses absolute. Elite's is designed to provide a simulated future, complete with an ever evolving, dynamic backdrop which produces its own content, and will be developed further into the details (planetary landings, on-world EVA etc) with new kinds of gameplay emerging over time.
Both games are on a different scale and have a different focus. Just as Incarna (and all the possibilities that might have stemmed from it) detracted from Eve, empire building will detract from the more immediate and individual focus of Elite.
Both are sandboxes by pretty much every definition you'll find by Googling "definition of sandbox game" (though not by your definition), it's just that one offers a Han Solo sandbox and the other a Trade Federation sandbox.
Like I said before - I know I'm treading on the toes of old fanboys. But it's not disrespectful to offer constructive criticism, to request features, etc... You're treating this game like it's your personal dream come alive and that's understandable. I sympathize with you.
But just because I'm offering suggestions, etc, doesn't mean you have to feel disrespected. If you can't overcome your strong sentiments, then ignore this thread because I don't want you to get upset.
ED rates very low on the sandbox sliding scale, Eve doesn't. The sliding scale is a better way to look at this issue because it allows your wikipedia definition to be included in the analysis and there doesn't have to be a big debate on what constitutes "sandbox" anymore.
Personally I couldn't give an Asp 
cool what label ED is given I just want more to do than trade and shoot.
The Games is epic looking and just insane in it's level of scale and detail but all that backdrop is for nothing if you can just make cash and shoot things...
I hesitate to use the word EVE here but please read the actual words I am saying here.
I have played EVE for 11 years basically non stop and I want to have ED be the thing to pull me away and give me the next decade of regular engaging entertainment.
But right now, as it stands I can't see what's going to hold my attention once I have a pile of cash and a few fully fitted ships. I mean it's not even like I can go be a pirate (not that it's my play style) because again what's the point at the point where I already have a pile of cash...
that's the bottom line
cool what label ED is given I just want more to do than trade and shoot. The Games is epic looking and just insane in it's level of scale and detail but all that backdrop is for nothing if you can just make cash and shoot things...
I hesitate to use the word EVE here but please read the actual words I am saying here.
I have played EVE for 11 years basically non stop and I want to have ED be the thing to pull me away and give me the next decade of regular engaging entertainment.
But right now, as it stands I can't see what's going to hold my attention once I have a pile of cash and a few fully fitted ships. I mean it's not even like I can go be a pirate (not that it's my play style) because again what's the point at the point where I already have a pile of cash...
that's the bottom line
Again, freedom to do only 3 things: transport pre-made stuff for profit, fight or explore.
Hence the sliding scale analysis of sandboxiness!
Hmmmm. I can't craft (well I try but it pretty much always falls over and burns down, even my origami) and I'm not CEO of Microsoft by this inference I deduce real life is not sandbox it's a theme-park
I really wouldn't call the item creation system in Skyrim crafting on any level. +0
No physical limitations? really have you tried leaving Skyrim to go to Cyrodil? +0
There aren't any classes per se, but there is a good build that can do everything you need to do. +0
Good/Evil/Neutral? I thought the biggest choice was do I want to do the faction quests or not +0
Total points +0
Absolutely dependant on your Dungeon Master. If you have one with an open mind and a good grasp of the mechanics then the world is a small mollusc of your choosing.
If, and in my experience this is the more likely, you have a guy with a module and a grudge against the unfairness of existence you will be in for a rough ride.
Good DM, +10, Bad DM -infinity
Never played EVE got bored by the tutorial.
The 3 aspects assigned +0 obviously reflect a bias.
Can pursue 3 careers (tbh combat, trading, exploration covers the fundamentals of what anyone can do, if repair modules/ drones are in game we may get a 'Healer' too, and you conveniently missed out miner(gatherer)) over a collection of 25 vessels with a vast multitude of configurations... I'm not sure on the number of combinations at the moment, but lets just say +lots
Once E: D has the full implementations of Planetary Landings and the ability to go walk about I will be able to walk to a vessel on a spacestation, take off, mine in the outer asteroid belt, defend myself against pirates, collect a few bounties, trade a variety of goods across the known galaxy (legal or illegal), land and watch the sunset on planets no other player has been to, advance the goals of my faction of choice, put some decals on whatever vessel I happen to own, sell it and buy a different one, take up piracy against the evil Federation (the Federation is evil isn't it? Corporations are never good
), become a slave trader for the Imperials, sell fertiliser to the Alliance because I forgot to install life support to the hold...Not being able to craft or have an individual effect on a vast multisystem economy didn't even cross my mind of the many things I want to do when I get my hands on E: D
And, what makes it a Sandbox? I decide what, where and how I will have fun
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Personally I couldn't give an Asp
The Games is epic looking and just insane in it's level of scale and detail but all that backdrop is for nothing if you can just make cash and shoot things...
I hesitate to use the word EVE here but please read the actual words I am saying here.
I have played EVE for 11 years basically non stop and I want to have ED be the thing to pull me away and give me the next decade of regular engaging entertainment.
But right now, as it stands I can't see what's going to hold my attention once I have a pile of cash and a few fully fitted ships. I mean it's not even like I can go be a pirate (not that it's my play style) because again what's the point at the point where I already have a pile of cash...
that's the bottom line
Precisely. ED needs to offer more than mere trade, combat and exploration.
Try not to worry too much about my feelings, it's hard for me but I think I'll manage. I only ask that you try to avoid misusing the term "meta-game" too much more and I think I'll cope.
Unfortunately, it is too late for making suggestions. It was probably too late even at the Kickstarter but at least then you could have joined the Design Decision Forum and had some input. At this stage there is no chance that game changing suggestions will be considered. Sorry, but you're wasting your time.
Honest question... So what?
Absolutely Robert; The key game rationale: The individual in his ship discovering the galaxy in the 3 or 4 ways he can is far and away enough for me.
Yep, that's all you could do in the original Elite and its all E: D needs to keep me happy!
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
So that it can become an EVE superset (i.e. it has real combat as well)?
You would be better off petitioning CCP to implement something other than point-and-click combat in EVE.
Hmmmm. I can't craft (well I try but it pretty much always falls over and burns down, even my origami) and I'm not CEO of Microsoft by this inference I deduce real life is not sandbox it's a theme-park
I really wouldn't call the item creation system in Skyrim crafting on any level. +0
No physical limitations? really have you tried leaving Skyrim to go to Cyrodil? +0
There aren't any classes per se, but there is a good build that can do everything you need to do. +0
Good/Evil/Neutral? I thought the biggest choice was do I want to do the faction quests or not +0
Total points +0
Absolutely dependant on your Dungeon Master. If you have one with an open mind and a good grasp of the mechanics then the world is a small mollusc of your choosing.
If, and in my experience this is the more likely, you have a guy with a module and a grudge against the unfairness of existence you will be in for a rough ride.
Good DM, +10, Bad DM -infinity
Never played EVE got bored by the tutorial.
The 3 aspects assigned +0 obviously reflect a bias.
Can pursue 3 careers (tbh combat, trading, exploration covers the fundamentals of what anyone can do, if repair modules/ drones are in game we may get a 'Healer' too, and you conveniently missed out miner(gatherer)) over a collection of 25 vessels with a vast multitude of configurations... I'm not sure on the number of combinations at the moment, but lets just say +lots
Once E: D has the full implementations of Planetary Landings and the ability to go walk about I will be able to walk to a vessel on a spacestation, take off, mine in the outer asteroid belt, defend myself against pirates, collect a few bounties, trade a variety of goods across the known galaxy (legal or illegal), land and watch the sunset on planets no other player has been to, advance the goals of my faction of choice, put some decals on whatever vessel I happen to own, sell it and buy a different one, take up piracy against the evil Federation (the Federation is evil isn't it? Corporations are never good
Not being able to craft or have an individual effect on a vast multisystem economy didn't even cross my mind of the many things I want to do when I get my hands on E: D
And, what makes it a Sandbox? I decide what, where and how I will have fun
I disagree with your point allocation for many reasons, but most of all because:
1- you just did a "+lots" points to ED, meanwhile calling the numbers *I* assigned as reflecting subjective bias!
Surely...2- you just described the mechanics of moving about in a future downloadable content pack for ED, as if that is a sandbox like feature.
3- Your reference to "healer" and other minor things you can do: these do not give you control over gameplay and the meta-game at all - one feature in sandbox games in the sliding scale.
So do you mind if it offers other features too, to make more people happy? Or must it be that only you should be satisfied and even if adding more features takes nothing away from your happiness, you would rather it not be added because your desire has been fulfilled?
I'm not just talking about the Wikipedia definition, I'm talking about just about every definition of it there is. It's very, very simple - an open world game where players make their own way through it.
Applying a sliding scale of sandboxy features will naturally favour a 13 year old game with almost two dozen expansions over a game that isn't out yet, but it doesn't change the simple fact that both games are sandboxes by just about every accepted definition.
But the people on this very thread who agree with you that ED is indeed a sandbox game, disagree with you on what that definition is. And again, applying the sandbox sliding scale at least gives you a comparative analysis between games, such as games that are, say, FPS first person shooters with some sandbox features such as an open world, vs true sandbox games like DnD, minecraft, etc. That comparative analysis in turn helps us understand where literally EVERYONE is coming from and how to communicate about our ideas about where the game should go. That is, the sliding scale analysis is a practical tool, not an absolute definition of sandbox for every other situation on the internet.
The bottom line is that the sliding scale analysis helps us organize the genre from left to right, right most being less sandboxy, left being more. Or however you want to arrange it.
I love that attitude you've got going on there, others have to be shoved out of the universe because the game is not built (or being built) on the model you deem fit for you and your mates? Spoken like a true SA member there sir, well done.
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