Elite Dangerous is the Largest Empty Sandbox Ever Made

[Genar-Hofoen]

Probably because of things like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKD1ap5hsI

Well for one thing, David Braben was talking about what turned into Community Goals. <-- this happened.

Then he's talking about assassination missions <--- this happened.

Passenger missions. <--- this happened.

System states of Famine. <--- this happened.

inter-System conflict. <--- this happened.

etc.

Most important point : All handled by the background simulation and within the context of the background simulation. Something which is affected by player actions.

 

[shreddog]

1100 Elite hours clocked on my Steam account.. And still playing. Only Skyrim can rival that, and that is only because of all the great mods for that game.
So I think FDev must be doing something right..
But it's far from completed. Atmospheric landings and Space Legs and much more detailed exploration mechanics and I may never stop playing this game

 

[Ozric]

Probably because of things like this:

Not even remotely about player owned assets.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Whats the point of allowing player submitted minor factions then? If these things should never happen, it never made sense allowing players to create these factions which then conquer systems and bases.

Because it was a quick and dirty way for Frontier to try to help groups of players feel more involved in the game world. And let's not forget that all player minor factions are, is a renamed BGS minor faction, and are basically no different from any other BGS minor faction.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I can see why Frontier created the Gnosis. It fits within the Elite lore, for one - a bunch of crazy scientists larking about the galaxy doing research. Seeing as a lot of the events within the game currently involve finding out about the Thargoids, the Guardians, alien wrecks and whatnot, it does fit in with the narrative of the game.

The Gnosis can only do one thing though - jump from system to system with a bunch of ships docked within it. The itinerary has to be planned ahead, and jumps are done between server maintenance.

And as far as the game is concerned, it's just another type of fixed object which moves around the game world every so often.

There is no territorial control going on around the Gnosis, its purpose is to galavant around the game world taking mad scientists with it.

So I feel pretty neutral about the Gnosis, to be honest.

i flew to the gnosis to check it out, its a nice ship and i can see the the alure of it. It does however potentially represent a start of a very scary shift in the game... ok so so far i believe its jump range is rather limited and it jumps only once every server maintenance..... but seeing how things in ED have invariably gotten easier since the launch of the game i can see definite grounds for a slippery slope concern.

imagine if its jump range was eeked out to 2000LY and its jump frequency to every 24hrs.... it would mean "my"group could feasibly agree to set course from sol to colonia, log out for 10 days, and then the entire group fast travel there.

whether this is a good feature or a horrible one is of course down to the individual... but i do see the gnosis as the potential to for ever change ED into a different game than the one i thought i bought.

OTOH, if all npc factions get these mega ships, and each ship is themed with the npc faction it is a part of, and i can sign up to it, AND player groups can equally get their own, but only within the same limits of the ones the npc factions have and it is essentially just a platform to keep players together, and it does not lock out any other players either... then i can see it being an interesting feature...... (but agian imo this hinges on how far FD want to run with it).

Honestly, i would much rather FD had spent times on DDF features instead. I suspect it IS going to be another feature, like the vast majority, which are only for player groups and to hell with the rest.

but that ship has sailed.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I generally like that the game does this to the player. That said I do think that there should be a little more opportunity to affect change, even if it's just in your local system. There are famous and infamous people in real life who have made their mark on the world and there's no reason why at least if it's only known to the individual player in some backwater system, that it can't happen in Elite. Indeed, if anything it should happen to prove the utter futility (or worth!) of those possible actions.

Edit: I should have added, this also has the effect of giving the player a little more of a backstory when blazing their own trail. Elite is a tad nihilistic, but imo it shouldn't be quite so much.

Embedding ourselves in the game is a good idea but I certanly don't think this kind of game is supposed to let us be in control of much.

In Elite you start as a relatively unknown rookie in the Pilots Federation, but eventually you can become part of the "Elite" the top ranked pilots who are kind of famous and significant. The "blaze your own trail" implies the player can achieve great things in a free and open sandbox. Some people want to be more than a lone pilot.

That's the key word, some players. If you want to become the Eravate lord like Zarek Null, maybe you can try other games desinged to do that like Eve Online. It also should be noted that we are that, pilots from the pilot federation, not traders or politicians. I know I know, there is the trading rank but its just a rank, a title, that's it.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Executive controlled ships are mentioned since the early days in newsletters and development videos.

[CITATION NEEDED]

The shallow sandbox game approach won't keep this game alive for another 5 years.

Doooooooom! Dooooooooom!

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

Well for one thing, David Braben was talking about what turned into Community Goals. <-- this happened.

Then he's talking about assassination missions <--- this happened.

Passenger missions. <--- this happened.

System states of Famine. <--- this happened.

inter-System conflict. <--- this happened.

etc.

Most important point : All handled by the background simulation and within the context of the background simulation. Something which is affected by player actions.

And yet it was entirely pointless, you can bring 1000's of tons of food to a target lcoation and it doesn't matters to those 102 people living there.
You can bring 1000's of people from station A to B and yet no proper missions for brining them back happen, or population changes happen.

nothing is really connected, missions are a random generator with minor to no real impact on the BGS. It all kinda resets after a while. Does famine do anything to the system? Like population decrease? Nope, people don't grow or die no matter how well or bad you do. It shifts only a few sliders and numbers with no real relevance

 

[Iskariot]

This is a popular opinion about the game though. ED has maybe the largest virtual sandbox of any game, but there's too little sand that we can mold, change and influence by ourselves.

Player owned capital ships like the Fleet Carrier and in-game guild support will be major improvements. The game needs more player controlled content.

Multiplayer fleet carriers and guild support is exactly what we don't need to address the problem you mention.
I can think of a hundred proposals to improve the game mechanics and add truckloads of sand to the sandbox for everyone to play with instead of just an added tool for multiplayer/P2P lovers. To me these multiplayer additions you mention are not even real sand. They do not address the real problem. They just add p2p pew pew, but no fundamental core gameplay improvements.

Creating deeper, more involved core mechanics and adding more variety to the universe do address the sand problem.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

i flew to the gnosis to check it out, its a nice ship and i can see the the alure of it. It does however potentially represent a start of a very scary shift in the game... ok so so far i believe its jump range is rather limited and it jumps only once every server maintenance..... but seeing how things in ED have invariably gotten easier since the launch of the game i can see definite grounds for a slippery slope concern.

imagine if its jump range was eeked out to 2000LY and its jump frequency to every 24hrs.... it would mean "my"group could feasibly agree to set course from sol to colonia, log out for 10 days, and then the entire group fast travel there.

whether this is a good feature or a horrible one is of course down to the individual... but i do see the gnosis as the potential to for ever change ED into a different game than the one i thought i bought.

OTOH, if all npc factions get these mega ships, and each ship is themed with the npc faction it is a part of, and i can sign up to it, AND player groups can equally get their own, but only within the same limits of the ones the npc factions have and it is essentially just a platform to keep players together, and it does not lock out any other players either... then i can see it being an interesting feature...... (but agian imo this hinges on how far FD want to run with it).

Honestly, i would much rather FD had spent times on DDF features instead. I suspect it IS going to be another feature, like the vast majority, which are only for player groups and to hell with the rest.

but that ship has sailed.

Good post.

But I'm pretty sure Frontier do not intend to turn Elite into an executive control game - there's more pushback from many a poster here against the very small group of very vocal proponents of turning it into an executive control game - and that your concerns won't be actualised.

 

[Achilles7]

An empty sandbox?...some would describe it as more of a full cat litter tray interspersed with crap!

Not I, though, fanboys.. please direct your customary, passive-aggressive barbs to Enderby or Black Company; my delicate disposition surely would not be able to cope with such savage, 'rapier-like' witticisms.

 

[verminstar]

In Powerplay you are competing with other players to push your faction to the top of the pile for a variety of rewards.

You do this by accruing/delivering tokens (be they undermining ones for enemy space, fortification ones for your space, or expansion tokens for neutral space).

If you are killed before you can hand those tokens in (which hand on heart, you know is only going to happen if you stumble into another player) then not only is your faction not going to get the reward, you've lost time and credits trying to achieve the aim.

If you're playing in the other modes to avoid this risk, while still competing in a PvP game mechanic, you're doing it to bypass PvP.

This means balance goose, sorry to break that to ye...because while pvprs cant stop solo haulers, neither can the solo haulers stop the pvprs in open. So exactly what is the problem? Quite frankly, Im not seeing the issue at all...the issue that some appear to have is that they dont like balance because they cant shoot anything while using a mechanic that was designed to operate across all modes, ergo its working as intended.

So just to get this straight...ye dont like it because its working as intended? Sounds fairly ridiculous when ye put it that way, but tbh thats exactly what this argument boils down to...its an argument that yer really not gonna win because it is absolutely ridiculous that the game should make fundamental changes just to please a relatively tiny number of players and tick off an even greater number who like things the way they are.

And as fer bypassing open pvp...one could just as easily argue that a pvp fitted ship is playing open to bypass hauling. Regardless what ye personally think of hauling isnt even relevant because its a gameplay mechanic just like pvp is. That being said, either open or solo, everyone has the same choices ergo the system is balanced. And you guys wanna unbalance it...thats basically yer entire argument and its weak as water. Because fundamentally, open pvprs are using open and the pvp excuse to bypass all other mechanics that powerplay has been designed around.

It simply doesnt make sense goose...and all the salt in all the galaxy aint gonna change that because its one the few things in the game that doesnt need balanced...made more interesting and involved certainly but as per mode play, it is balanced and thats that ^

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

And yet it was entirely pointless, you can bring 1000's of tons of food to a target lcoation and it doesn't matetrs to those 102 people living there.
Youcan bring 1000's people form station A to b and yet no proper missions for brining them back happen, or population changes happen.

nothing is really connected, missions are a randomg generator with minor to no real impact on the BGS. It all kinda resets after a while. Does famine do anythign to the system? like population decrease? Nope, peopel don't grow or die no matter how well or bad you do. It shifts only a few sliders and numbers with no real relevance

Well quite, but I'm sure none of that will be solved by some player-owned megaship rushing in and exploding lots of other player ships. Nope, that's something which could be solved by Frontier assigning dev teams to further flesh out these very basic of mechanics.

 

[Stigbob]

Probably because of things like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKD1ap5hsI

Interesting video, he talked of expectations and intentions and specifically said that it wasn't fixed.

You can see where a lot of what he spoke of was implemented cap-ship CZ's with players influencing the outcome, cg's to build new stations (not as often as he hoped then), players supporting or opposing factions in wars to expand or push back certain factions. Most of it came to be and they haven't finished yet, I hope the miners get their gold rush mechanic.

The really interesting things for me were these :

You can do it all and influence it from solo, but you'll miss out on the social aspects.

And no mention anywhere whatsoever of player owned territory or stations.

 

[CapuchinSeven]

And yet it was entirely pointless, you can bring 1000's of tons of food to a target lcoation and it doesn't matetrs to those 102 people living there.
Youcan bring 1000's people form station A to b and yet no proper missions for brining them back happen, or population changes happen.

nothing is really connected, missions are a randomg generator with minor to no real impact on the BGS. It all kinda resets after a while. Does famine do anythign to the system? like population decrease? Nope, peopel don't grow or die no matter how well or bad you do. It shifts only a few sliders and numbers with no real relevance

My friend at work just read the post you quoted over my shoulder and just said pretty much the same thing as you, so you're not the only one that feels this.

 

[Aashenfox]

Ya... that's not how it works. 'Touche' is what someone says to you within the broader context of repartee, extrapolating, of course from the original context of fencing wherein one acknowledges an opponent striking a blow. Saying something, then adding touche, is worse then laughing at your own joke without delivering the punchline.

One ALSO says 'Touche!' to initiate combat (forum pvp in this case), my use was possibly(?) correct.

 

[Goose4291]

[CITATION NEEDED]

Player Owned Capital Ships
In The Commanders Livestream, a viewer asked "any chance of playing capital ships in the future?", David Braben answered: "it's on the list, but a long way down it, because there's a lot of gameplay to make it work. The issue is what we call the difference between direct control and executive control. Where rather than flying by the seat of your pants you're giving orders to a giant ship. Because you can't expect it to change course very rapidly and that sort of thing. So it's certainly a long-term possibility, but it's long-term."

Sources
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Capital_Ships
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McJgSVJQGG8

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Player Owned Capital Ships
In The Commanders Livestream, a viewer asked "any chance of playing capital ships in the future?", David Braben answered: "it's on the list, but a long way down it, because there's a lot of gameplay to make it work. The issue is what we call the difference between direct control and executive control. Where rather than flying by the seat of your pants you're giving orders to a giant ship. Because you can't expect it to change course very rapidly and that sort of thing. So it's certainly a long-term possibility, but it's long-term."

Sources
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Capital_Ships
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McJgSVJQGG8

"on the list but a long way down"... sadly not as far down as ddf multicrew, ddf wingmates, orrery, legs, atmos landing, EVA, ship boarding etc etc etc

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Player Owned Capital Ships
In The Commanders Livestream, a viewer asked "any chance of playing capital ships in the future?", David Braben answered: "it's on the list, but a long way down it, because there's a lot of gameplay to make it work. The issue is what we call the difference between direct control and executive control. Where rather than flying by the seat of your pants you're giving orders to a giant ship. Because you can't expect it to change course very rapidly and that sort of thing. So it's certainly a long-term possibility, but it's long-term."

Sources
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Capital_Ships
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McJgSVJQGG8

Thanks for the citation.

I notice it's "on the list, but a long way down it", and "a long-term possibility, but it's long-term." To me this means it probably won't happen, or at least not before a lot of other stuff like atmospheric landings, for example, and even that is a long way down the line - ain't happening in 2018, that's for sure.

 

[babelfisch]

Player Owned Capital Ships
In The Commanders Livestream, a viewer asked "any chance of playing capital ships in the future?", David Braben answered: "it's on the list, but a long way down it, because there's a lot of gameplay to make it work. The issue is what we call the difference between direct control and executive control. Where rather than flying by the seat of your pants you're giving orders to a giant ship. Because you can't expect it to change course very rapidly and that sort of thing. So it's certainly a long-term possibility, but it's long-term."

Sources
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Capital_Ships
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McJgSVJQGG8

Mentioning the possiblity of player owned capital ships in a 2.3 stream isn't exactly:

Executive controlled ships are mentioned since the early days in newsletters and development videos. The shallow sandbox game approach won't keep this game alive for another 5 years.