Its kind of a sandbox. Only there is no sand, concrete everywhere, and you can't play with it
Elite Dangerous is the Largest Empty Sandbox Ever Made
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Its kind of a sandbox. Only there is no sand, concrete everywhere, and you can't play with it
That sounds very reassuring, so job well done. However, i remain sceptical. We heard such things before. While i fully acknowledge that nobody is perfect, the pacing and scope of information that gets passed to the players by the devs is really on the low end. Don't get me wrong, Discovery scanner is brillant - i love it! But i am talking about the frequency and scope of such events like the last livestream with Sandro. There just isn't enough of it. It's really hard to remain patient on a time scale of years. C&P was an issue since 1.0, and there are many more issues from 1.x that sill have not been addressed. Obsidian Ant makes great points in his latest video about CGs. It's just sad to see the game so often feeling to not live up to its perceived potential. And the delivery of the narrative is a real, real bummer for me, because i am honestly wondering who would have believed that it will be good in any way by really lacklustre CGs every few weeks. I literally couldn't care less about the aliens, and that after i was well hyped after the Guardians mission.
PS: I don't think carriers or guild will improve any of the issues i have with the game.
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As much as it pains me to say it, it *technically* is a sandbox.
It certainly doesn't feel like one, let alone a good one, but it's a sandbox nevertheless.
It's the same as when people call it an mmo. Is Elite a mmo? No, not by a long shot, but *on paper* can be called like that anyway, because it technically has enough features to be considered and being sold as one, even if those features are underdeveloped or whatever.
To me it feels much, much more like a rng procedural generated theme park rather than a sandbox, but still.
I mean elite shines in more than one aspects, sure, but being a successfully interactive sandbox with variety and the possibility of being shaped by players creativity isn't exactly one of them.
So, yeah, on this regard we have to nod and move forward I guess.
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Can Frontier, masters of procedural generation, do the ultimate? Procedurally generated missions, that have not just the detail and depth of a standard MMO quest, but even more so, up to Epic quest line type missions with branching storylines, tangentially related side-quests and beyond, with interconnected relationships that tie into a bigger picture which tie into an even bigger picture, etc..
Maybe that's too much to ask for. Could be something that would require an advanced AI.
How about this.... Players themselves can generate missions in some fashion, creating their own stories that other players can involve themselves with. Now that's a sandbox.
Maybe that's too much to ask for. Could be something that would require an advanced AI.
How about this.... Players themselves can generate missions in some fashion, creating their own stories that other players can involve themselves with. Now that's a sandbox.
Duly repped. I like a man who knows where he stands.
Sole Hunter
Banned
The EVE devs called it a fake sandbox at the last fanfest. That just goes to show.
- No player driven economy.
- No tools to build clans, corps and alliances..etc
- No ways to manufacture stuff and sell them.
- No ways to influence the universe in a meaningful manner.
- No industry focused gameplay.
- No player owned contracts.
- No player owned outposts.
- No player owned stations.
- No player owned space.
- No real player career progression with reputation and consequences to your actions.
- No player driven narrative stories based around meaningful interactions.
The list goes on.
Even the BGS is adjusted by the devs when there's enough cry babies crying on the opposite side of the spectrum.
It's a cheap theme park with the illusion of a sandbox. The poor implementation of gameplay mechanics is what is holding Elite Dangerous to become a "Good" game.
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Amen. Again you get rep.
I don't have any problem with the sand in the box, I do whatever I like to do and it doesn't stop. I haven't gotten to the thargoids yet but in time .. 4 5 6 or whatever months .. I will but there is no rush as retirement, VR and waiting for the sun to melt the snow is keeping me busy!!!!
Sole Hunter
Banned
Minimal limitations also imply the game has to be player driven which is not the case. The story narrative is not player driven, the economy is not player driven and the list goes on. One of the essential aspects of a sandbox hinges on the reputation that a character builds for themselves. As the in game activities of players are associated with the name and the aforementioned reputation they have gained. If the universe is not player driven then it's the illusion of a sandbox. A sandbox put tools at your disposal to shape the universe and allow you to have meaningful impacts on your environment.
The developers tried to do that with the community goals and we all know what happened. Poorly designed game mechanics is a recipe for failure.
To quote Matthew Woodward the Senior Designer of EVE online ; "I understand that its really hard to define what is a sandbox, because it's so ingrained in what we do, that we know what it is, but it's hard to put into words".
There is in fact a lot of narrative that happens in ELITE, but it's not primarily player-driven. The key element behind a player game-driven narrative basically boils down to being social, goal-driven and emergent and giving player total freedom & control over the environment.
Does Elite Dangerous qualify as a sandbox, no.
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That's actually pretty accurate reaction - "if you are so clever, make your own game".
That's why I wouldn't hold my breath on things changing suddenly - its not really lack of meaningful feedback that makes things worse than we'd like them to be.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Tough words, but its very true. And I hate that its even a thing.
We are getting guilds in the future though.
But everything listed there, Well most of it cannot be accomplished while keeping every mode equal. They can add all the awesome features above. But just like powerplay, a very small portion of the community will use it.
For example we have powerplay for PVP right? But instead the community has created their own PVP hub instead because of the imbalances. Even though something like powerplay and BGS have a great foundation to build upon. https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/7eztt3/introducing_the_pvp_hub/
So they have two options, leave everything as it is now? Which is not working for this community. Or CHANGE the symptoms causing the problems.
The #1 symptom that a lot of people have a problem with is objective control vs other players while in single player or friends mode.
In every other game I have played Overwatch, Counter Strike, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, Guildwars 2. PvP and even some PVE within those games were used for objective control. It gave reason to shoot others, it gave reasons to interact and work as a team. It gave reasons for communication.
Here in Elite Dangerous you can accomplish all your goals even against other people while removing yourself from the multiplayer experiences. This is why we have people saying they get "griefed and ganked".
If all this stuff above were fixed. This thargoid stuff thats slowly rolling out wouldn't be a big deal. And half of the features of this game wouldn't feel like they are missing because of it.
But, I still love the game. And I have hopes for these changes, because they are starting with the guilds/fleets here in the future. Surely they cant make the same mistakes they did with Powerplay?
I do believe we are on the right track. And my fingers are crossed the finally pull the trigger.
By doing so this would bring meaning to the features of this game that arent widely used. They really have spent a lot of time with the BGS and Powerplay. And its a shame their potential is being held back all because of a simple "all modes are equal" problem. Which started out awesome by the way. I thought it was a neat Idea, especially when I first started this game. But as you grow as a player, and start engineering your ships to be competitive. You just end up in a hauling match in an alternate but same universe.
What are we engineering these ships for? To do the same thing we did when we started this game? Just a little bit faster? That makes no sense.
Making these changes would give people plenty to do while others things happen behind the scenes. And If these things were done before hand. I dont think people would be complaining about the "mile wide inch deep" thing. Or community goals, Or the slow rolling thargoid stuff. Because they could be involved with a team for ongoing BALANCED gameplay for all while the rest of the story unfolds.
Man, if we had a community driven economy,(which we have the stepping stones for through the BGS). Id farm all day and sell stuff if it was worth my time in credits, and if I could make modules and sell them too. Oh baby. Thats all I'd be doing. I played the Auction house in WoW. Made lots of gold.
Bounty hunting players and people going after me is really fun. As a streamer, I think I am the only one thats encouraged stream sniping(for me only) Because it made me feel like the game was full. It felt like thats the way the game was made to be played. Ive only been killed once out of the 20 or so times its happened in a year. Other than that is was PVP fights vs Other PVPers.
Anyways, I do believe they are on the right track with some of this stuff. They seem to be starting fresh, starting over with how things are produced. And maybe they will change their mind and give this game the depth it needs by fixing the most obvious of problems.
Here's hoping for the future of Elite Dangerous!
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Err... Nope, it's not. It never has been.
On topic: it's not a sandbox. That's why one would consider it being empty. It's a bad experiment of instancing with many limits and barriers. Some have critiqued others for wanting this to be a theme-park game but, frankly, that's what Elite already is and always has been and more: one cannot deviate off of FDev's set 'rails' whether it be the sub-universe when in SC, or the sub-sub-universe when dropped out of SC. In all cases, one cannot just go fly forever and actually get anywhere other than a nothing less boundary, and simply cannot do what they like to the environment. The more part comes with the instances that restart everything when a new instance is spawned - it's like restarting a level while you're playing the game. Nothing is persistent, nothing can be forever changed by any player aside from a few meaningless numbers that appear from the sometimes working BGS. It's not a sandbox.
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I think you're supposed to be over there with this post...
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/223-Modes-of-Elite
Every game you listed is nothing like Elite: Dangerous and is a bad comparison (or plain false).
This is about adding more sand to the sandbox, not about you being able to throw sand in peoples faces.
The EVE devs can think/say what they like, I've seen phone games with better control schemes that EVE.
Target something;
F1, F2, F3, F4 .... wait for target to blow up. New target;
F1, F2, F3, F4 .... wait for target to blow up. New target;
F1, F2, F3, F4 .... wait for target to blow up. New target;
F1, F2, F3, F4 .... wait for target to blow up. New target;
F1, F2, F3, F4 .... wait for target to blow up. New target;
Riveting game play there.
Edge of your seat stuff pressing F keys for 2 minute auto orbit fights or 12 hour mining ops.
Perhaps they should make a decent space game before knocking other peoples efforts.
I find it curious how the first page of replies to this thread consist largely of attacks against the poster, the topic of the post and generalisations about complaints.
None of it deals in earnest with the point of the OP which is that FD have placed several largely linear mechanics into a game that is intended to be a sandbox. OP I think you make a good point. To add to that, I find it especially limiting that FD choose to restrict mechanics so they only work for each linear concept. There’s very little room and quite a bit of punishment for using things in creative and unintended ways.
While I enjoy ED a great deal I find it is always teatering on the edge of failure because of the restrictive thinking and poor decision making from on high.
None of it deals in earnest with the point of the OP which is that FD have placed several largely linear mechanics into a game that is intended to be a sandbox. OP I think you make a good point. To add to that, I find it especially limiting that FD choose to restrict mechanics so they only work for each linear concept. There’s very little room and quite a bit of punishment for using things in creative and unintended ways.
While I enjoy ED a great deal I find it is always teatering on the edge of failure because of the restrictive thinking and poor decision making from on high.
Zing. Nice one.
Really though these same threads from the same 5 Cmdr's are so yesterday.
It's no accident that I am weening myself off this particular forum.
Just have to peek once in a while to make sure I am not missing something worthwhile like news on the T10.
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I feel that turning this thread into an Open vs. Solo debate is not helpful. Many of us who enjoy this game prefer to play in Solo for various reasons and have no desire to play the game with others. Not everyone is into multi-player gaming. It’s part of the core value proposition of Elite that solo play is an option and it’s one of the reasons I purchased the game. Happily it’s doubtful that FD would actually take this mode away in any event as it is obvious that many folks want to play this way.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Like a moth to flame...
Im talking about PVP in general. In every game PVP is used for Objective Control. And here the only use for "PVP" is consensual. And if you use it to stop someone from completing their objective its salt induced.
I see you commented on the f1,f2, blah blah blah.
You have no idea what goes into the PVP in Elite Dangerous or Wing fights. There are builds, cooldowns, positioning. Its very similar ot League of Legends or Dota. Just within your ship.
Each ship has a different play-style and build to use. Each Wing or Team has different tactics and counters within a fight. There is kiting, peeling and protection. There is utility and much more.
There is a lot of depth that goes into fights. Just because you dont like it. Does not mean the rest of the community does not. People have no problem PVPing with no consequences over objectives. This is not about throwing sand in peoples faces. This is about make a sandcastle out of the sand that has already been provided. And all you like to do is stomp them because you dont like it.
Its old. Like since 2014 as you said.
Not really trying to. Im just saying the reasons it feels so empty is because the features of this game arent being used. When we have the sand sitting in bags already. But no one uses them because of it.
Its really hard not to come back it. Because it really is the root of all the problems.
And while I have no problems with the modes themselves. Its whats done within the modes vs others thats the problem. It used to not be that way. But the game has evolved since then.
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