Elite Dangerous no longer an MMO?

There is a maximum of 32 players in any one instance. Battlefield 4, which would never dare to profess to be an MMO, allows up to 64 per instance. I figure you must have a completely different idea of what Massively means to the standard definition.

There is nothing in the definition of an MMO that sets a threshold for the minimum or maximum number of players you can see/intereact with in any given place in the games persistent world at any given time. The number of players is not a determining factor of whether a game qualifies as an MMO or not. BF4 is not an MMO because, despite supporting 64 players per game, it is not set in a persistent world.

An MMO is as I described it in my post above. The the model ED employs limits the number of players in a place at a given time doesn't stop it from being an MMO, although I'd be prepared to violently agree with you that this detracts from ED being a "good" MMO.
 
For all the people that don't even want this game to be an mmo, no one's stopping you from playing in solo mode; don't hate on people who actually know what mmo's are and have been playing them almost exclusively for 15 years for calling fd on it's crap.

The same way you feel about solo mode having to be online and how it's not a true single player game is the same way we feel about our part of the game.

The real enemy is.......the liars.. ;) (and marketing)
 
So what, Everquest has a limit of 30 players on any instance. Is that also not a MMO for you?

Braben has said this is a MMO. It is a MMO, deal with it.

Sorry I don't have anything to deal with. No company or company member can redefine words to their own liking. He can call it a giraffe for all I care, it isn't going to give the game a long neck and spots. It will just make him wrong.

Look at it this way, what if he had said this game was free.

What if he decided that he wanted free to now mean "you don't pay anything now but in 3 months you are liable to pay us £120"? You think that would be equally acceptable? Do you think he would get away with that?

Commercial entities are not allowed to redefine terms for their own gain. There are very strict codes of practice that are applied to these things. You aren't allowed to advertise your game as one thing and supply it as another. OK they are currently quite lax about things like this in the software world but as recent cases have demonstrated the legal world is catching up quickly.

Maybe if you spent more time educating yourself and less time trying to get a rise out of people online you would understand these relatively simple concepts.

"Deal with it"? - stone me, how old are you? Why not post a flashy gif to say it for you. I understand that's how the unenlightened youth of today do it.
 
There is nothing in the definition of an MMO that sets a threshold for the minimum or maximum number of players you can see/intereact with in any given place in the games persistent world at any given time. The number of players is not a determining factor of whether a game qualifies as an MMO or not. BF4 is not an MMO because, despite supporting 64 players per game, it is not set in a persistent world.

An MMO is as I described it in my post above. The the model ED employs limits the number of players in a place at a given time doesn't stop it from being an MMO, although I'd be prepared to violently agree with you that this detracts from ED being a "good" MMO.


You are factually wrong and you are incorrect.

And that's quite the problem with looking up definitions of phrases you obviously know nothing about and trying to present THAT as evidence for your argument.
 
Last edited:
Not only is your answer tautologous, but it also says the same thing twice, and it includes a redundant statement ;)

I know. It means precisely what I said. That's why I chose the words, lol.

It also is a play on this entire thread being redundant.

(I just realized that many people would not have realized this without you pointing it out, so ty.)
 
Last edited:
I am not sure if FD themselves ever had MMO labeling on their advertising.

Other game journalist sites did though

It said MMO right on the home page - which is why I bought it.

*edit - it didn't say "Full of MMO content for sociable people" - sadly :(
 
Last edited:
I for one thought it was MMO, which is why I brought it, given the size of the universe , your in , 64 players is lonely, 300 is getting cool ...also if I wanted too play off line , I go outside :)
 
Last edited:
He is not redefining anything. This game is technically a MMO. Not sure why that is a problem for you.

Because I know what words mean, I have spent over 20 years of my life studying language and how it is formed and used. What are your credentials, out of curiosity?

I can't help it if you are insisting on arguing from a standpoint based on ignorance.
 
Lets face it this game is as much an MMO as diablo 2 is/was. yes you could theoretically group with thousands but you could only be in an instance with a small number (8 in fact). same as the comparisons to battlefield or COD, yes there are millions that play those games but you can only ever interact with at most 15/31/63 other ppl at any one time.

There is a reason why they removed the MMO tag, although i'm not sure its legally viable to rebrand your title after you've sold it to ppl on false pretenses but hey ho i don't have the patients to go on some sort of legal crusade that would probably end up costing more than you'd get back.. if your that torn up about it then do something or don't.

i personally can suck it up as a minor inconvenience and just wait for the game to get better over time maybe that will make up for it maybe not.
 
Last edited:
Where are you Commanders going with this discussion? Is there a secret goal for all this?

And yes I know I did not contribute much by asking this, thank you.
 
Because I know what words mean, I have spent over 20 years of my life studying language and how it is formed and used. What are your credentials, out of curiosity?

I can't help it if you are insisting on arguing from a standpoint based on ignorance.

Now THAT'S funny. ;D Even my dog's laughing now! XD

Good game, everyone! I suggest learning more words and stuff! \o/

I'm out. o/
 
You are factually wrong and you are incorrect.
Is he? Let's try a little experiment.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Massively+multiplayer+online+game
massively multiplayer online game: any online video game in which a player interacts with a large number of other players.
.
ANd an interesting article:http://internetgames.about.com/od/mmorpgs/a/whatisammog.htm
"Although "massively multiplayer online game" (MMOG) was an obscure term at the turn of the century, these days it's applied haphazardly to an increasingly broad spectrum of games with multiplayer capabilities. No doubt, World of Warcraft has raised the profile of MMOGs to a point where everyone seems to want to jump on the massively multiplayer bandwagon. But are all these games, even those which use a lot of "instancing," really MMOGs? While there is no concrete definition of MMOG to resolve the issue, I think the proper use of the term MMOG deserves further examination.
.
A Brief History of "Massively"
The term MMOG or MMORPG first appeared around 1995, and was used to describe games like Interactive Magic's Air Warrior flight simulator, which allowed up to 100 pilots to take flight in the same virtual sky. A year or so later Trip Hawkins pitched 3DO's Meridian 59 as a massively multiplayer game, and it was also used to market Ultima Online, which was released in 1997. The term didn't really become widespread until EverQuest took off several years later and it was clear that graphical MMOGs were here to stay. The acrynom is often abbreviated as "MMO," and several different genres of game have been adapted to the concept, including roleplaying games (RPG), first-person shooters (FPS) and real-time strategy games (RTS).
.
How Many is Massive?
One common characteristic of MMOGs is that they allow you to play along with large numbers of other people in the same game environment. As usual, the devil is in the details, because not everyone agrees on what "playing" or "large numbers" really mean, and evolving technology has made these terms even more difficult to define.
.
While play usually involves some sort of combat, it could, in theory, also include things like trading and negotiating. Even if a game caps the number of players that can engage in a single battle, there is rarely a limit on how many players can partake in economic aspects of the game. However, I don't think this really does justice to what is meant by massively multiplayer. By this account, a game like Battlefield 2, which offers a persistent stats system even though matches have relatively small player limits, might be considered a MMOG. Similarly, if thousands of people are competing for a high score in a game of Pac-man, that doesn't make Pac-man a massively multiplayer game.
.
Another thing to consider is that, text-based games excluded, there are limits to how many players existing technology can handle. With a few exceptions, graphical games split their user-base across a number of different servers, also referred to as "shards" or "realms," each of which is a complete version of the game world. The population limits of servers vary from game to game, but they frequently support several thousand players each.
.
World of Warcraft is one game where everyone on a realm could all decide to congregate in a single zone, and there have been in-game events, such as the opening of the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj, that brought very large numbers of players into one place. In these situations, the lag inevitably escalates, information gets lost, characters near your own stop getting rendered, and the server begins to drop connections or crashes altogether. The problem is that each additional character in the area increases the amount of data that must be sent to everyone exponentially - it's only a matter of time before this overwhelms the system.
.
While a number of games have demonstrated that it is possible to have hundreds of active players in a single area, many games make an effort to spread players out in order to minimize lag. This is often done with instancing, which I'll discuss in a moment.
.
Obviously, it's not easy to quantify massively multiplayer, but I think we have to consider games like Everquest and World of Warcraft paradigms of the genre. The key is that they consist mostly of persistent zones that are open to every player on the server and no other artificial population cap is imposed. While playing in these zones, you could theoretically encounter any other player on the server. Eve Online is noteworthy for allowing their entire player base to participate in one world with no separate shards, although zones within the game do have a population cap.
.
Instancing
The use of multiple copies of a game area, created on demand for groups of players, is known as "instancing." Instancing allows two or more groups of players to work their way through identical areas, but each is in a private copy of that area, so the separate groups will not see, or interfere, with each other. The vast majority of MMOGs employ instancing to some extent, including WoW, which uses it for Dungeons and Raids.
.
Aside from reducing lag, one of the biggest advantages to instancing is that it allows players to pursue portions of the game's content without interference from other players. A boss in a crowded zone could be difficult to kill simply because everyone else jumps it before you get a chance. Instancing effectively alleviates this problem, providing each group a copy of the boss to kill in their own time. It also makes it easier to put dynamic environments in an online game.
.
Instancing is nothing particularly new, going back at least as far as Anarchy Online, but Guild Wars is notable for making much more extensive use of it than earlier games. All areas outside of cities are limited to a single group of up to 8 players, or instanced PvP matches that can involve several groups of 8.
.
Guild Wars in an interesting example because, although the developer has never called it a MMORPG, it's frequently classified as a MMORPG by the media. While you can trade and form groups in well-populated cities, you're never actually playing the game with more than a handful of people. On the other hand, games like Bioware's Neverwinter Nights, which support up to 64 players on a single server, are rarely regarded as massively multiplayer.
.
If you've played a variety of online RPGs, you know that playing through an instance with a fixed group of players is dramatically different than playing through an open zone such as the Barrens in World of Warcraft. Being able to meet other players as you're questing and group with them on the fly is a long way from forming a group through the chat window beforehand. Being saved from a mob at the last second by a random player passing by, or being unexpectedly attacked by players from an enemy faction, for example, are things that typically cannot happen in instances. There are lots of good things to be said for instances, but they tend to detract from the massively multiplayer feel of a game.
.
Final Thoughts
It could be that we're not far from calling every multiplayer online game massively multiplayer. In my view, if I can't potentially engage in core gameplay with over a hundred other players, it doesn't really qualify as massive. Clearly, there are games that sit close to this line, and the next advance in technology may force me to revise my opinion. Perhaps we'll find some more precise terms in the future to describe the distinctions that become evident as you move from one type of graphical online world to another."
.
 
You are factually wrong and you are incorrect.

I'm neither on this issue.

And that's quite the problem with looking up definitions of phrases you obviously know nothing about and trying to present THAT as evidence for your argument.

Evidence to support your assertion I did no research before posting?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Because I know what words mean, I have spent over 20 years of my life studying language and how it is formed and used. What are your credentials, out of curiosity?

If you're hinging your argument on an appeal to authority, you're not going to do very well.
Instead, try constructing a robust argument.
 
I'm neither on this issue.



Evidence to support your assertion I did no research before posting?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



If you're hinging your argument on an appeal to authority, you're not going to do very well.
Instead, try constructing a robust argument.

The fact that you even had to do research at all is evidence enough of my intended point. ;)
 
Elite Dangerous is an MO game Massively Online . At the moment it is missing the Multiplayer so its a MO not an MMO . Of couse your definintion of massively depends on your opinion of numbers I guess. I hope for the missing M in the future.
 
Is he? Let's try a little experiment.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Massively+multiplayer+online+game
massively multiplayer online game: any online video game in which a player interacts with a large number of other players.
.
ANd an interesting article:http://internetgames.about.com/od/mmorpgs/a/whatisammog.htm
"Although "massively multiplayer online game" (MMOG) was an obscure term at the turn of the century, these days it's applied haphazardly to an increasingly broad spectrum of games with multiplayer capabilities. No doubt, World of Warcraft has raised the profile of MMOGs to a point where everyone seems to want to jump on the massively multiplayer bandwagon. But are all these games, even those which use a lot of "instancing," really MMOGs? While there is no concrete definition of MMOG to resolve the issue, I think the proper use of the term MMOG deserves further examination.
.
A Brief History of "Massively"
The term MMOG or MMORPG first appeared around 1995, and was used to describe games like Interactive Magic's Air Warrior flight simulator, which allowed up to 100 pilots to take flight in the same virtual sky. A year or so later Trip Hawkins pitched 3DO's Meridian 59 as a massively multiplayer game, and it was also used to market Ultima Online, which was released in 1997. The term didn't really become widespread until EverQuest took off several years later and it was clear that graphical MMOGs were here to stay. The acrynom is often abbreviated as "MMO," and several different genres of game have been adapted to the concept, including roleplaying games (RPG), first-person shooters (FPS) and real-time strategy games (RTS).
.
How Many is Massive?
One common characteristic of MMOGs is that they allow you to play along with large numbers of other people in the same game environment. As usual, the devil is in the details, because not everyone agrees on what "playing" or "large numbers" really mean, and evolving technology has made these terms even more difficult to define.
.
While play usually involves some sort of combat, it could, in theory, also include things like trading and negotiating. Even if a game caps the number of players that can engage in a single battle, there is rarely a limit on how many players can partake in economic aspects of the game. However, I don't think this really does justice to what is meant by massively multiplayer. By this account, a game like Battlefield 2, which offers a persistent stats system even though matches have relatively small player limits, might be considered a MMOG. Similarly, if thousands of people are competing for a high score in a game of Pac-man, that doesn't make Pac-man a massively multiplayer game.
.
Another thing to consider is that, text-based games excluded, there are limits to how many players existing technology can handle. With a few exceptions, graphical games split their user-base across a number of different servers, also referred to as "shards" or "realms," each of which is a complete version of the game world. The population limits of servers vary from game to game, but they frequently support several thousand players each.
.
World of Warcraft is one game where everyone on a realm could all decide to congregate in a single zone, and there have been in-game events, such as the opening of the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj, that brought very large numbers of players into one place. In these situations, the lag inevitably escalates, information gets lost, characters near your own stop getting rendered, and the server begins to drop connections or crashes altogether. The problem is that each additional character in the area increases the amount of data that must be sent to everyone exponentially - it's only a matter of time before this overwhelms the system.
.
While a number of games have demonstrated that it is possible to have hundreds of active players in a single area, many games make an effort to spread players out in order to minimize lag. This is often done with instancing, which I'll discuss in a moment.
.
Obviously, it's not easy to quantify massively multiplayer, but I think we have to consider games like Everquest and World of Warcraft paradigms of the genre. The key is that they consist mostly of persistent zones that are open to every player on the server and no other artificial population cap is imposed. While playing in these zones, you could theoretically encounter any other player on the server. Eve Online is noteworthy for allowing their entire player base to participate in one world with no separate shards, although zones within the game do have a population cap.
.
Instancing
The use of multiple copies of a game area, created on demand for groups of players, is known as "instancing." Instancing allows two or more groups of players to work their way through identical areas, but each is in a private copy of that area, so the separate groups will not see, or interfere, with each other. The vast majority of MMOGs employ instancing to some extent, including WoW, which uses it for Dungeons and Raids.
.
Aside from reducing lag, one of the biggest advantages to instancing is that it allows players to pursue portions of the game's content without interference from other players. A boss in a crowded zone could be difficult to kill simply because everyone else jumps it before you get a chance. Instancing effectively alleviates this problem, providing each group a copy of the boss to kill in their own time. It also makes it easier to put dynamic environments in an online game.
.
Instancing is nothing particularly new, going back at least as far as Anarchy Online, but Guild Wars is notable for making much more extensive use of it than earlier games. All areas outside of cities are limited to a single group of up to 8 players, or instanced PvP matches that can involve several groups of 8.
.
Guild Wars in an interesting example because, although the developer has never called it a MMORPG, it's frequently classified as a MMORPG by the media. While you can trade and form groups in well-populated cities, you're never actually playing the game with more than a handful of people. On the other hand, games like Bioware's Neverwinter Nights, which support up to 64 players on a single server, are rarely regarded as massively multiplayer.
.
If you've played a variety of online RPGs, you know that playing through an instance with a fixed group of players is dramatically different than playing through an open zone such as the Barrens in World of Warcraft. Being able to meet other players as you're questing and group with them on the fly is a long way from forming a group through the chat window beforehand. Being saved from a mob at the last second by a random player passing by, or being unexpectedly attacked by players from an enemy faction, for example, are things that typically cannot happen in instances. There are lots of good things to be said for instances, but they tend to detract from the massively multiplayer feel of a game.
.
Final Thoughts
It could be that we're not far from calling every multiplayer online game massively multiplayer. In my view, if I can't potentially engage in core gameplay with over a hundred other players, it doesn't really qualify as massive. Clearly, there are games that sit close to this line, and the next advance in technology may force me to revise my opinion. Perhaps we'll find some more precise terms in the future to describe the distinctions that become evident as you move from one type of graphical online world to another."
.

All the sources you have cited would seem to agree with our assessment that ED, though labelled and sold as an MMO, fails to meet the criteria required to be classed as one. Thanks for the info.
 
Back
Top Bottom