Elite Dangerous: Odyssey Mission Q&A - Recap

Wait and see what 'minor tweaks' are delivered once Odyssey launches... They are almost certain to not address the majority of your criticisms - as 'Average Joe' is the principal customer and need to be retained - but there may be a tiny scrap of meat on the bone for the "elite few".

I sincerely hope that Frotier continue to do nothing to accomodate the top 0.01% of player skill in a way that would directly affect the remaining 99.99% negatively - but also that a way could be found to enable these "elite" players to enjoy their game equally as much as the others: but, as you said, they wont...

Sadly, the majority, in a piece of entertainment software in particular, are the ones paying the developers salaries - alienating the "casuals" to pamper to the "elite" would very likely be financial suicide for that title.
I look at it in a different way. This argument assumes that every player is supporting FD in an equal way. However, looking into details it might just be as likely that the "few" elite players support(ed) the company by a much larger margin. As casuals tend to only invest a few hours compared to the dedicated community, their financial support most likely is proportional to the invested gametime. Meaning that the casual community might not be the major pillar after all and may be just about as supportive as the few dedicated players that would have been investing on a regular basis.

There are some good examples that work that way, Hearthstone for instance iirc. A few individuals investing as much as a dozens casuals. It's natural that the developers, from a financial point of view, would want to statisfy the most paying ones.
Having said that, it's still questionable to go after paying customers in the first place as game balance shouldn't be dictated by the ones with the biggest purse, but by the ones that understand the most of it. And - point still stands - that certainly isn't the average Joe and imo not Frontier Developements but the few dedicated players that play(ed) the game for years, some of which have already been here since day one or even closed alpha/beta.
Who else could have more understanding of the game mechanics than those that have been around longer than most of the present active players and the current active developers themselves? With as much time investment as the dedicated community, objective and rational argumentations can easily be formulated, proper suggestions with an underlying, solid foundation are more likely to occur compared to circles that simply do not possess the required understanding of the, in fact, relatively complext game mechanics in Elite: Dangerous (compared to most other MMOs).
 
That’s a bit harsh isn’t it? As a semi-professional casual gamer and firework enthusiast I’d be a little disheartened if my opinion, a drop in an opinionated ocean it may be, was considered irrelevant. I’m not against balance tweaks but look at it this way, Elite is already a fairly tricky-to-get-into and niche game, and you want the development to be dictated by a tiny niche within that niche?
In fact, yes. Reference to my reply to another forum user sums it up pretty much. You may have a read through my argumentation there (as it's really the same argument I'd bring up here).
 
Having said that, it's still questionable to go after paying customers in the first place as game balance shouldn't be dictated by the ones with the biggest purse, but by the ones that understand the most of it. And - point still stands - that certainly isn't the average Joe and imo not Frontier Developements but the few dedicated players that play(ed) the game for years, some of which have already been here since day one or even closed alpha/beta.
Who else could have more understanding of the game mechanics than those that have been around longer than most of the present active players and the current active developers themselves?
So total amount of play time/account age = win? Is that it? No IQ test or anything else?

Let FDEV sort out their own property. It might yield a faster result than even finding those dedicated players.
 
I would argue that balance does matter significantly for casual players as well as the more 'hardcore', because casual players are the ones who experience the lopsided systems most harshly by having their 900hp Anaconda blapped by someone in a 36,000hp Anaconda (or equivalent). The thing is the blapped blame primarily the blapper, rather than the design that allowed this frankly ridiculous encounter to even occur.

Sure, it does sound extremely condescending to say 'many players don't understand how the game works', but it is also true - and not unusual in game design. You don't become an expert in something just by buying it, and most game designers understand that and try to balance their games regardless. There's a certain fatalism behind a lot of the responses about this stuff, like balance being 'good enough' and 'it's not like it matters to me so whatever'. Surely we all want Elite to be the best it can be; good balance between systems helps everyone, regardless of how acutely they're aware of it.

In other words, "I'm in a position to ignore the flaws in a system" is a pretty weak defence of that system.
I think FDev went too far with engineering. It should make your ship A LITTLE BIT better, not a whole new level. If a fully engineered FDL can shoot down 5-6 unengineered FDLs (with the same internals tho') not breaking a sweat - we have a problem.
 
So total amount of play time/account age = win? Is that it? No IQ test or anything else?

Let FDEV sort out their own property. It might yield a faster result than even finding those dedicated players.
Thoguh result might or might not be of good quality.
 
I think FDev went too far with engineering. It should make your ship A LITTLE BIT better, not a whole new level. If a fully engineered FDL can shoot down 5-6 unengineered FDLs (with the same internals tho') not breaking a sweat - we have a problem.
The original pitch was sidegrades yeah, and in many people's opinions would've been a cooler system but really the issue of balancing is always a factor even before engineering (as it is in all games, really). It's not just about the insane power spectrum, balancing also encompasses rewards and activities etc. Frontier have acknowledged the need for this in the past, and continue to make an effort in certain areas but the recent 'healthy place right now' quote was equal parts disheartening and comical for the subset of players who care.

In their defence balancing such a wide-open set of systems has to be daunting and perfect balance may be unachievable in real terms. The current situation where about 80% of all modules, mods and ships have effectively no niche beyond whimsy is far from ideal though, even being realistic about their limitations.
 
All a matter of perspective, of course... I, as the only one I can speak for with any authority, am particularly happy with the current game, and enthused about the coming expansion...

I've got into double figures at least in playing this game too!
Likewise, I can say that I am unhappy with the current state of the game, hence am currently not playing and am not planning to buy Odyssey as it doesn't compete with other games in that genre from what we know so far.
Also, not been buying other titles from FD or game extras since 2018 as I do not support developers that are not transparent when it comes to QA.
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Shouldn't it? I've no idea..
Just as a comparison for Elite. When 2.4 was released, which brought the Thargoids fully into the game we had a staggered Beta and that lasted for 6 weeks! Now we have what is essentially an entire new game, and we have 2 months.

How most companies do things now has changed a fair amount in the last few years with the ever increasing use of Early Access, and the changing of what that actually means. Some games go into "Early Access" for over a year, yet still charge full price... But I digress :p

I would suggest that you would want at least two months for an Alpha (with incremental fixes throughout), then a gap of a couple of weeks for things to be tied up and checked off. Then you move into Beta, which ideally would be at least a month if not two (again with incremental fixes throughout). The amount of bugs and balance changes that will be found will not have time to be properly addressed in my opinion.


The question is since we all rely on our suits O2 supply outside buildings, how does on render someone unconscious without damaging suit integrity?

An electrical pulse carries the risk of damaging O2 supply/recycling as well as heat protection. Physical damage to the suit being a similar issue with seals.
Fire a dart that injects a small amount of chloroform into their air supply (it can stick in the pipe/tank)? A sound pulse that could render them unconscious? Inside buildings it doesn't matter as they have no helmets, so you can cudgel them all you like.

I'd be happy with some handwavium explanation to be honest. I just don't want to be forced into combat when trying to do something that does not rely on it. Like the newer Guardian sites, you can't do them without being attacked by the sentinels and you have to kill them otherwise they will kill you. So guardian tech is locked behind combat. I did do it, because I wanted the FSD booster, and it's pushed me to 87% of the way towards ranking up :/
 
Greetings Commanders!

Last week was big for Elite Dangerous: Odyssey news! Not only did we release a brand new look at Odyssey pre-alpha gameplay, we also revealed that the alpha will begin on March 29 on PC (more details on this soon). The gameplay reveal was followed by a live interview with developer Gareth Hughes, answering questions around the mission itself, and giving more interesting insights into Odyssey! You can watch the entire interview over on YouTube, but if you prefer to read, we've got a refined version of Gareth's answers after the mission playthrough video below.


Let's get straight into the questions:

Q: So this is pre-alpha footage we're seeing in this video?
That's right! Things have changed rapidly, we're in that end phase of development where we are really balancing and polishing everything. We're seeing pretty dramatic day-to-day improvement, the quality level is going up and up and up!

Q: This video showed off one particular mission, at one particular site, on one particular planet - and this is scaled galaxy wide?
That's it! We're looking at 27 different settlement types, spanning six different themes: agricultural, industrial, extraction, tourism, research, military. There's a really wide variety of settlements, each of the themes has unique building types that can facilitate unique mission types. We also have more generic missions that work across all of the themes. There's lots of variation depending on the planet, the type of faction that currently has ownership of the settlement (via BGS) and more.

Q: Could you talk about what kind of NPCs we might encounter at a settlement?
Generally we split the NPCs into two distinct types in terms of behaviour. There's the guards that you were fighting against, and the civilians. Obviously they are different in terms of loadout and how they act in the settlement but I think the more fundamental thing that drives your interaction with settlement NPCs is the background simulation and your relationship with the faction. If you have a friendly relationship with that faction then you're free to pretty much go anywhere and explore, maybe you'll find some mission givers there that you can interact with. However, if you have a bad relationship with that faction, that settlement may just end up in a shoot on sight situation.

If you go in shooting, that's going to upset even the most friendly NPCs! As soon as you're killing NPCs without reason, you're given a bounty straight away, and you're pretty much fair game! The settlement doesn't have a hive mind in terms of what you're doing. If you're detected doing something that's going to elicit a hostile response from the AI, before the whole settlement is aware of that, the message has to be radioed out - you're given a window of opportunity to interject before they can send that message out.

Q: Sometimes the NPCs will ask you to stop for a scan, can you talk about this?
That's right, they have the same scanning device as you do, and it can pick up on your existing criminality. You might have a cordial relationship with the faction, but if you do something suspicious, they'll scan you with the Profile Analyser, if they detect an in-jurisdiction crime on you, then they will react immediately. You also see in the video, that some buildings have gating. There are a few ways to get through that day, either via overloading the mechanism, or you'll also notice a number '3' above the panel - this is the authorisation level required. The way you get this authorisation is by scanning an NPC that already has it - you're effectively stealing their identity. The NPCs don't like you doing this, and if you get scanned whilst in possession of a cloned authorisation, they will react.

There's lots of ways you can approach a settlement, it's not the case that you have to go in guns blazing. It's also not the case that you can't achieve mission objectives that are nefarious by stealthing your way in and avoiding criminality that's going to get you in trouble straight away.

Q: If you've been scanned once, will NPCs just leave you alone?
NPCs can be interested by suspicious stimuli. So for instance if they saw the cut panel on the floor, they'd know something didn't seem right, and if they see you near the panel - they'll investigate you. If you have just been scanned, another NPC won't just come and scan you again instantly, but if you're moving through and setting off all these stimuli, they're going to respond!

Q: Are there things that a player can do to avoid settlement defences like turrets and Goliaths?
Absolutely, what you did in the mission playthrough was like the ultimate 'pull the plug' - taking the regulator will shut down pretty much everything like turrets, that does mean all the NPCs will react to that though. If you're doing a more stealthy approach, the command building often has multiple consoles that you can access to turn off various security systems. If you're patient, you can scan the AI, understand the patrol routes, apply some mods to your suit to make you more stealthy, or use a silenced weapon, you can get to that building and disable those features to make your life easier if you don't want a firefight. If you're detected in an area that you don't belong, they'll warn and fine you at first, but if you're persistent things will get more aggressive!

We've got some classic missions like assassinations, and new missions like sabotage and heists. Some of those may give a bonus payment if you're not discovered or don't kill anybody. We're trying to give the missions a lot more flavour and storytelling in terms of the context around them.

Q: Can you talk about what happens if you fail a mission, or die?
If you die, you fail the mission you're currently doing. When you die, you get a choice of two things. If you're on foot and don't have a ship (which is possible in Odyssey), you'll respawn at the nearest port or outpost. If you do have a ship, you'll get a choice to respawn at the port, or in your ship. If your ship is on the planet surface, you'll respawn in your ship on orbit, if it's docked at a port already, you'll respawn in your ship at the port. Anything that's in your backpack inventory (different from permanent storage) is lost when you die.

Q: The NPCs in the video weren't so tough compared to others, can you talk about NPC difficulty?
This relates to the classic time to kill question. The answer is it's incredibly variable, as it's all gear driven. If I have the worst gear against AI or players with the best gear, they're going to have a significant advantage over me. They're going to feel spongey to me, and I'll feel easy to kill for them. If we're on a level, then it's a lot of different. In terms of AI, there's also behavioural elements to combat that scale up when you fight higher tier AI, including things like accuracy, dodging etc. If you're doing difficult missions, you're going to get good rewards. Once you scan players or AI, you can tell exactly how powerful they are.

Q: Can you give us some more examples of mission types?
An interesting one is kind of the inverse of what you did in the video! That settlement may be in an offline state, and you may be tasked to go down, get into the reactor building, and put that settlement back online. Some of the buildings might be on fire, so once it's online, you have to go building by building, de-pressurise, put fires out and so on. There may be scavengers or other NPCs there to make your job harder.

Q: Can you talk a bit more about the authorisation levels in settlements?
Yes, this is basically one of the ways we gate off areas from access. There is a consumable device in the game that's quite expensive which overrides something that usually needs a certain authorisation level. NPCs don't like seeing them, of course, but it's another way the player can move through the settlements. It's about choice, if I'm on a relatively low paying mission, do I want to use my expensive device, or do I want to swap into my Utility Suit and use my cutter and other tools?

Q: Can you talk about the different suits in Odyssey?
Yes, as you see in the video, players can take up different roles depending on the suit they use. The tactical suit for example, can carry two different weapons, which is unique to that suit, so you need to consider the best suit for the mission you're about to engage in.

Q: There are different types of weapons in Odyssey, could you tell us why a player might use them?
Way back when we started prototyping combat, it became quite clear to us early on that the ship combat has some really interesting concepts behind it, so we basically stole them! The premise is that kinetic weapons are good against armour, lasers are good against shields, and plasma re decent against both but not quite as good as the other two. When it comes to choosing a loadout, you'll want to choose your weapons to be the most efficient, so you may want lasers to take out shields and kinetic to finish them off. If you're working as a team, you can specialise, one player can be ant-shield, and another can finish them off via kinetic.

Q: For the getaway, we landed to the side of the settlement for a quick escape, there's been a small change in this, hasn't there?
Yes, you can now automatically land on planet surfaces. It's hard to encapsulate all the changes in a few minutes of video. When players get hold of the alpha, that's when they'll really understand what we've done.

Q: Can you talk about suit management?
There are different things that can pull on the suits' power. There's the life support machine, things like the shield (which is power hungry when turned on), and some of the tools can use your suit power. Survival actually starts to become something you need to become considerate of in certain situations. If you're at a settlement, there are areas where you can recharge your suit, but if you're out exploring, there's certainly a risk factor involved. Environmental factors can also have an effect on how hard your suit has to work to keep you alive. If you're in really extreme temperatures, you'll be taking physical damage. You can disembark somewhere on the planet with safe temperatures, but you can quite quickly end up somewhere where the temperature is much hotter, and end up in danger.

Q: Finally, how important is the upcoming alpha?
From my perspective, I'm interested in player feedback on the economy - how much is a bounty worth for example. When players start playing it, they'll quickly establish where we need to tweak things. There's also things like weapon balance that we'll be looking at, and we'll have time to take that on board and react.


Thank you again to Gareth for joining us on his birthday! With the alpha fast approaching on March 29, we'll have even more information on Elite Dangerous: Odyssey in the coming weeks. Until then, fly safe Commanders.


o7
Can we play alpha if we buy it after March 29th? How long will the alpha last?
 
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