Elite: Harmless - Karma System aka "be the Tamagotchi" - FRESH SALT, MINED RIGHT HERE

ranje

R
Talking about what a fd dev recently "dropped" on reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/698b36/sandro_sammarco_lead_designer_talks_about/

It´s Mai and not the 1st of April, was my first thought.

So that is the plan...make open play the new solo coward mode, but now with people?

Karma System, or "behavior code" for CMDRs? Why still keep the "Dangerous" in the games title? It just is not what its going to be anymore in the future.
Maybe call it "the failed Elite: warm showers edition"?

PVP only "on demand" "Mememe i don´t wanna be herassed in my weak ship by stronger players, they must be punished...also those evil wings...and those
rammers...ohhhh those rammers! And all that abuse their time to * of somebody else in the game... we must teach them all to be GOOD PERSONS. Also we
will send them a free edition of the holy book...nono...we don´t want bullys in our game. Also we want a version of Quake without weapons, where we can
hug each other to death only!!! Exactly.

IMHO THE KARMA SYSTEM IS AN UTTERLY SAD IDEA!! A higher power to judge all our actions... punish certain play-styles...education by the devs. An open
universe...but with rules that apply everywhere? Sounds odd!

But maybe first....

Fix your gameplay. Fix your tons of bugs. Give the people something to fight for together. Give them content that is more interesting! And i don´t mean those
boring generation ships that seem so far very much alike, despite the voice acting with repetitive story. The Devs put a lot of time into a very slow paced story,
that does not really get everyone excited. Not like the instancing massacre around the salome event ...and so on. No, i don´t dislike the new content - but it is
too little too late. So far. And that is just one little reason why people do enjoy some anti-social game play. Asides...the game needs it, if it wants tor remain
Elite: "DANGEROUS". There is a group mode already to be save from any anti-social elements and ganks. If you want some excitement at the other hand, and
learn how to escape, fly evasive, evade danger, or even learn how to fight...that's open. I don´t like to see the new karma-gotchi CMDR.



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Jaiotu

Jaiotu
While I'm not sure if this "Karma System" is 100% what many of us have been asking for, any update to Elite's crime and punishment system is welcome.

From what I've read the "Karma System" described is a way to enforce players to have manners and treat other players with respect. I'd rather see Elite implement a set of in-game laws that have real teeth when applying punishment for breaking those laws. The Suicidewinder loophole is one of the first that needs to go. Too easy to have your sins forgiven by switching to a cheep ship and hitting self destruct.

If people want to play the role of a criminal in game then they should be rewarded by being treated like one. Criminal players should be denied services in all but the most anarchic of systems.
 
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Marc_Hicks

Marc_Hicks
ranje said:
Talking about what a fd dev recently "dropped" on reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/698b36/sandro_sammarco_lead_designer_talks_about/

It´s Mai and not the 1st of April, was my first thought.

So that is the plan...make open play the new solo coward mode, but now with people?

Karma System, or "behavior code" for CMDRs? Why still keep the "Dangerous" in the games
title? It just is not what its going to be anymore in the future.

Maybe call it "the failed Elite: warm showers edition"

PVP only "on demand" "Mememe i don´t wanna be herassed in my weak ship by stronger players, they must
be punished...also those evil wings...and those rammers...ohhhh those rammers! And all that abuse their time
to of somebody else in the game... we must teach them all to be GOOD PERSONS. Also we will send them
a free edition of the holy book...nono...we don´t want bullys. Also we want a version of Quake without weapons,
where we can hug each other to death only!!! Exactly.

IMHO THE KARMA SYSTEM IS AN UTTERLY SAD IDEA!! A higher power to judge all our actions... punish certain
play-styles...education by the devs. An open universe...but with rules! Lol.

But maybe first....

Fix your gameplay. Fix your tons of bugs. Give the people something to fight for together. Give them content that is more interesting. And i don´t mean those boring generation ships that seem so far very much alike, despite the voice acting with repetetive story. You devs put a lot of time into a very slow paced story, that does not really get everyone excited. Not like the instancing massacre around the salome event ...and so on. No, i don´t dislike the new content - but it is too little too late. And that is just one little reason why people do enjoy some anti-social gameplay. Asides...the game needs it, if it wants tor remain elite: DANGEROUS. There is a group mode already to be save from any anti-social elements and ganks. If you want some excitement at the other hand, and learn how to escape, fly evasive, evade danger, or even learn how to fight...thats open. And not karma-gotchi CMDRs.........
Click to expand...

The only salt I see is the griefers getting salty because being an antisocial jerk might have some long lasting, in-game ramifications. Hilariously, you griefers who claim to want to the game to be "dangerous" are probably the same people who whined & stamped their feet when the AI briefly got an upgrade in 2.1.

As someone who has taken part in the Karma discussion (instead of relying on ultra-salty Reddit synopses) I can assure people that what is being discussed is a SCALPEL, not a CLUB. People will still be able to grief to their hearts content.....but there will be a downside to their behaviour over time.
 

xondk

X
ranje said:
.
Click to expand...
Seems you've greatly misunderstood the concept of it.
In general the karma will be a part of crime / punishment, if you keep behaving in a way that a system doesn't like, eventually they won't like you anymore? that's all really, and yes, repeatedly killing those that can't defend themselves counts as well.

So yeah, if you behave in a way they do not approve of, you will feel the consequences, which is what it should be like no? or are you saying you want to be able to run around and do stuff without consequences?
 
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Marc_Hicks

Marc_Hicks
My only issue with the Karma system is that it seems to be only for PvP.....I want crimes involving PvE to also carry longer term consequences-& that is speaking as someone who enjoys working for Anarchy Factions.
 

thirstyfish

thirstyfish
What, having consequences for your (mis)deeds? The horror!!! <insert sarcasm sign here>.

A step toward having a C&P system that means something? Gasp!!!

Or are you all salty because you want to seal club with no repercussions? Methinks thou dost protest too much...

- - - Updated - - -

Marc_Hicks said:
My only issue with the Karma system is that it seems to be only for PvP.....I want crimes involving PvE to also carry longer term consequences-& that is speaking as someone who enjoys working for Anarchy Factions.
Click to expand...

Be that as it may...its PvP encounters that highlight the need for a revamped C&P system. Don't hear anyone complaining about NPCs in this regard.
 

Marc_Hicks

Marc_Hicks
thirstyfish said:
What, having consequences for your (mis)deeds? The horror!!! <insert sarcasm sign here>.

A step toward having a C&P system that means something? Gasp!!!

Or are you all salty because you want to seal club with no repercussions? Methinks thou dost protest too much...

- - - Updated - - -



Be that as it may...its PvP encounters that highlight the need for a revamped C&P system. Don't hear anyone complaining about NPCs in this regard.
Click to expand...

....but I want to be NOTORIOUS....even after my bounties have expired.
 

thirstyfish

thirstyfish
Marc_Hicks said:
....but I want to be NOTORIOUS....even after my bounties have expired.
Click to expand...

ehh...fair enough, but I think that NPCs should carry less weight in this system compared to actual players. Players are pilots in a more exclusive sub-group of the Pilot's Fed, NPCs are not. Since Pilot Fed handles bounties and the like, this makes sense.
 

Lanceor

Lanceor
ranje said:
Talking about what a fd dev recently "dropped" on reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/698b36/sandro_sammarco_lead_designer_talks_about/

It´s Mai and not the 1st of April, was my first thought.

So that is the plan...make open play the new solo coward mode, but now with people?

Karma System, or "behavior code" for CMDRs? Why still keep the "Dangerous" in the games
title? It just is not what its going to be anymore in the future.

Maybe call it "the failed Elite: warm showers edition"

PVP only "on demand" "Mememe i don´t wanna be herassed in my weak ship by stronger players, they must
be punished...also those evil wings...and those rammers...ohhhh those rammers! And all that abuse their time
to of somebody else in the game... we must teach them all to be GOOD PERSONS. Also we will send them
a free edition of the holy book...nono...we don´t want bullys. Also we want a version of Quake without weapons,
where we can hug each other to death only!!! Exactly.

IMHO THE KARMA SYSTEM IS AN UTTERLY SAD IDEA!! A higher power to judge all our actions... punish certain
play-styles...education by the devs. An open universe...but with rules! Lol.

But maybe first....

Fix your gameplay. Fix your tons of bugs. Give the people something to fight for together. Give them content that is more interesting. And i don´t mean those boring generation ships that seem so far very much alike, despite the voice acting with repetetive story. You devs put a lot of time into a very slow paced story, that does not really get everyone excited. Not like the instancing massacre around the salome event ...and so on. No, i don´t dislike the new content - but it is too little too late. And that is just one little reason why people do enjoy some anti-social gameplay. Asides...the game needs it, if it wants tor remain elite: DANGEROUS. There is a group mode already to be save from any anti-social elements and ganks. If you want some excitement at the other hand, and learn how to escape, fly evasive, evade danger, or even learn how to fight...thats open. And not karma-gotchi CMDRs.........
Click to expand...

It's amusing when those whose playstyle is to threaten others get their knickers in a twist when their playstyle is threatened.
 

ranje

R
Interdicting and shooting somebody, for whatever reasons, has nothing to do with respect or whatsoever. If somebody i.e. for RP reasons shoots the people from a specific faction - why shall he not. Sure, there should be punishmet, but beeing denied access at certain stations or systems... is just not covering this. It is not covering the many reasons to shoot other players. If there would not be holes that allow others to i.e. gank on multicrew sessions by shooting the station, other side in a cz or similar - there would be NO need for a karma system. I do think there i a problem how player killing is (not) punished at all. But a "galaxy wide law" does not exist in elite, nor does it make any sense. So you think we need to teach players good manners? Why is this an open world then? Seriously, this is not my little farm, the Sims, or whatsoever. And although there is exploration and trading, this game is a space combat sim after all. An open universe, where you must watch out at every corner. Not as if you could not do anything about gankers, or be able to escape them!

And maybe the other side is not aware that the "bad boys" in the ed universe are hunted by a lot of other players, so if you start to make a lot of "new friends" by shooting random people, you will be hunted and have to live with that. And if this is Frontiers best approach to also counter combat loggers, sorry i got to laugh. Because i do not see this fixing the issue, although it is being addressed: the point is brought up, that fd team can not see for what reason somebody disconnected. And how will that change? Asides i doubt they have the resources to investigate on the cases, with the number of cloggers out there. And if this is not really solved, why solve the "trolling" by punishing the people for faults in frontiers game design elsewhere.
 

Marc_Hicks

Marc_Hicks
ranje said:
Interdicting and shooting somebody, for whatever reasons, has nothing to do with respect or whatsoever. If somebody i.e. for RP reasons shoots the people from a specific faction - why shall he not. Sure, there should be punishmet, but beeing denied access at certain stations or systems... is just not covering this. It is not covering the many reasons to shoot other players. If there would not be holes that allow others to i.e. gank on multicrew sessions by shooting the station, other side in a cz or similar - there would be NO need for a karma system. I do think there i a problem how player killing is (not) punished at all. But a "galaxy wide law" does not exist in elite, nor does it make any sense. So you think we need to teach players good manners? Why is this an open world then? Seriously, this is not my little farm, the Sims, or whatsoever. And although there is exploration and trading, this game is a space combat sim after all. An open universe, where you must watch out at every corner. Not as if you could not do anything about gankers, or be able to escape them!

And maybe the other side is not aware that the "bad boys" in the ed universe are hunted by a lot of other players, so if you start to make a lot of "new friends" by shooting random people, you will be hunted and have to live with that. And if this is Frontiers best approach to also counter combat loggers, sorry i got to laugh. Because i do not see this fixing the issue, although it is being addressed: the point is brought up, that fd team can not see for what reason somebody disconnected. And how will that change? Asides i doubt they have the resources to investigate on the cases, with the number of cloggers out there. And if this is not really solved, why solve the "trolling" by punishing the people for faults in frontiers game design elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Look, everyone, more salt. Get your free salt from the salty griefers. Oh, I just want Karma now simply so I can enjoy all the free salt I'll get from the whining griefers.

Again, why are you so upset that your criminal acts will actually have long-term ramifications? Don't like the ramifications of being a criminal? Then go hang out in an anarchy system until your karma recovers.
 

CaptainSeriousFun

CaptainSeriousFun
Marc_Hicks said:
...Don't like the ramifications of being a criminal? Then go hang out in an anarchy system until your karma recovers.
Click to expand...

And this is EXACTLY how it should be. This is what Anarchy systems are for. If stable, lawful systems couldn't authentically and actionably protect those in their systems, what would be the real differential between them and anarchy? This is much better, salt be damned.
 

_cygnus_

_cygnus_
Blah Blah Blah... Just another whine post from a CMDR that can't stand potential consequences from their behavior... It's everyone else's fault the game is not exactly as he would have it.

ranje said:
Talking about what a fd dev recently "dropped" on reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/698b36/sandro_sammarco_lead_designer_talks_about/

It´s Mai and not the 1st of April, was my first thought.

So that is the plan...make open play the new solo coward mode, but now with people?

Karma System, or "behavior code" for CMDRs? Why still keep the "Dangerous" in the games
title? It just is not what its going to be anymore in the future.

Maybe call it "the failed Elite: warm showers edition"

PVP only "on demand" "Mememe i don´t wanna be herassed in my weak ship by stronger players, they must
be punished...also those evil wings...and those rammers...ohhhh those rammers! And all that abuse their time
to of somebody else in the game... we must teach them all to be GOOD PERSONS. Also we will send them
a free edition of the holy book...nono...we don´t want bullys. Also we want a version of Quake without weapons,
where we can hug each other to death only!!! Exactly.

IMHO THE KARMA SYSTEM IS AN UTTERLY SAD IDEA!! A higher power to judge all our actions... punish certain
play-styles...education by the devs. An open universe...but with rules! Lol.

But maybe first....

Fix your gameplay. Fix your tons of bugs. Give the people something to fight for together. Give them content that is more interesting. And i don´t mean those boring generation ships that seem so far very much alike, despite the voice acting with repetetive story. You devs put a lot of time into a very slow paced story, that does not really get everyone excited. Not like the instancing massacre around the salome event ...and so on. No, i don´t dislike the new content - but it is too little too late. And that is just one little reason why people do enjoy some anti-social gameplay. Asides...the game needs it, if it wants tor remain elite: DANGEROUS. There is a group mode already to be save from any anti-social elements and ganks. If you want some excitement at the other hand, and learn how to escape, fly evasive, evade danger, or even learn how to fight...thats open. And not karma-gotchi CMDRs.........
Click to expand...
 
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ranje

R
thirstyfish said:
What, having consequences for your (mis)deeds? The horror!!! <insert sarcasm sign here>.

A step toward having a C&P system that means something? Gasp!!!

Or are you all salty because you want to seal club with no repercussions? Methinks thou dost protest too much...

- - - Updated - - -



Be that as it may...its PvP encounters that highlight the need for a revamped C&P system. Don't hear anyone complaining about NPCs in this regard.
Click to expand...



It´s called Dangerous, but they want to make it a walk in the park. I would find open a lot less exciting if people have to think 3 times if they want to interdict and fight
me or not. "Oh he has just an ASP...now i will get bad karma if i interdict him with my Python...but if his ASP is super engineered, and my python would not be, its fair again? And if i´m in a Clipper, killing a Conda, the in theory stronger tougher ship, should be fine for my Karma...? And then see...oh wait he´s "Expert" and not "Elite", so would that make it good for my Karma now, or bad? Oh better just don´t attack anyone at all before it gets too complicated..."

So if you have to make those thoughts before hit "interdict" you can leave the interdictor at home right away. Make open totally super safe unless it is an arranged encounter,
best is to still make arrangements before at how many percentage of hull to stop shooting each other.

THAT is what i am concerned about. Beeing punished for misdeeds like killing players is not the issue. But it must be done in an appropriate way. The crime system certainly needs rework, but imho a karma system belongs into other sorts of games and not here, my opinion.

Asides, i don´t think it would make sense to get restricted to access to i.e. High/Medium/low security systems based on karma or anything like that. It makes no sense, the galaxy is huge, and some factions might not even mind your killings elsewhere, or honor them. I.e. powerplay related player kills, just one example.

Trying to teach people how to behave by setting up such rules sounds like paternalism to me, and maybe educational attemp. Seems like he forgot that this is a game. In a game i can choose bright or dark side, play anti-social, social, be nice to people or be annoying. ED´s universe has enough room for all of that. There is enough silent corners and enough places where you will get murdered in 5 minutes if you do the wrong thing. I do not want to miss that part of the game in the future. Salt, because if that is where the ship sails...

- - - Updated - - -

_cygnus_ said:
Blah Blah Blah... Just another whine post from a CMDR that can't stand potential consequences from their behavior... It's everyone else fault the game is not exactly as they would have it.
Click to expand...

Just another CMDR that does not like the game as it is right now, and wants the game to be changed into Disneyland...

you might have overread that the problem is not concequences from blabla behaviour... but about making this game too easy and "nice". This would stop a lot
of people from pirating, or combat in general except if it is arranged. Why not entirely remove the weapons from the game and make it explore and trade only,
so you guys finally are happy
 

MikeHawk

MikeHawk
it has one ... you loiter in a station & you die ... you shoot someone inside of 4km of a station & you die ... you enter a station w/out permission & you die ... sounds like a punishment system is installed ... just not a, can I be escorted to all 400bill systems so I won't be attacked in game? kk thx

karma isn't something to be installed/implemented into a video game. Buck up & fly right ... constant whining & covetching only makes ppl want to kill you. No one will try to kill you in Sims Online ... go back there plz
 
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