Elite Insurance makes no sense

dcforeman

D
So, you have an Asp Explorer it's worth 6,500,000 credits. Your ship gets destroyed, and you are presented with an insurance screen. For the most part, I ignored it. You get a loan, you get your ship back at a fraction of the cost. It's all good normally, and to be honest I didn't pay any attention to it until today when I couldn't afford a new ship. Yeah I had a temper trantrum, I mean who wouldn't after you'd lost 7.5 million in ship and upgrades... moving past that.

It got me thinking about the existing system... why does the ASP explorer only cost 250,000 credits when it is destroyed? The ship was worth 7.5 million, that's 1/30th of the ship cost. Also, why is there a loan of 200,000 credits available? In what practical way does that make sense? Sure I know it's only a game, but it's supposed to be a space trading game set in the future. That means an established economic system right?

Who exactly is going out, buying new ships, kitting them out at a 7.5 million value then selling them on to the player for 1/30th of the cost? Who is making money? What possible business model could ever exist that ensures that every time a ship is lost they lose 7.25 million credits?

We all know how real world insurance works, you pay X a month, and if your car is totalled you get a replacement. It's a regular payment based on how safely you drive. If you are a crazy nutjob making claims all the time your insurance costs will go through the roof. You benefit for no claims bonuses if you are very safe and never claim from them. This system punishes terrible drivers and rewards good drivers.

But in the elite universe, you only apparently pay the insurance company money + a bank loan when your ships dies. That means they only receive money when your ship is ended at a fraction of the ships cost...

No, this system needs to be rethought. There should be daily or weekly charge. That's how real world insurance works. So why the heck is it so weird in Elite? why as a business model doesn't it make any sense at all?

Or worse still are we all paying 7.5 million credits for a ship that can be manufacturered and delivered to the player for just 250,000 credits... in which case who the heck is getting the 7.25 million credit per ASP and how can I get in on that racket? haha
 

prasak

prasak
Ok you did not pay attention. The system is like it is and you lost your ship and now you are blaming the game. This is not real world, in a real world, you would wait 3 or 4 weeks to get a new ship :)
 

Spuffeld

S
Man if only there was kill logs. That'd be the suggestion I'd ask to bring in from this particular salty interaction with yourself.

Apparently blowing you up generated more tears than I had hoped.
 

dcforeman

D
People forget the previous thread and read what I said. As an economic model the Insurance system makes no sense. This is a serious question not a rant.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Kitiara said:
because 1 thread is never enough is it.

You're a beta backer, so you have no excuse not to know the game.

You bought a ship you couldn't afford to lose
You lost it
You cried

reference : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91947
Click to expand...

Dude, learn to read the post before you have a hissy fit. I wasn't complaining that I couldn't get my ship back. I was asking, why the insurance system makes no sense as a real world business model.

I hate lazy forum users who can't read.
 

Kitiara

Kitiara
dcforeman said:
People forget the previous thread and read what I said. As an economic model the Insurance system makes no sense. This is a serious question not a rant.
Click to expand...


Giving you benefit of the doubt




The insurance is covered by the pilots federation.

What you're paying is, essentially, the excess on the policy. If you don't pay the excess, you're in breach of the contract and the insurance company is no longer obliged to give you anything.

However, the pilots federation will help you out in this case, and let you have an insured sidewinder.

The only thing really missing from the game are the pilots federation fees.

Who's up for campaigning for a 50,000 credit per week pilots license maintenance fee?
 

Renegade Roach

R
So because you screwed up you now want a system implemented which would be much more costly for everybody who didn't. No, the system is not entirely logical but then again neither is flying without insurance when you, as a beta player, know how that system works.
 

Spuffeld

S
Kitiara said:
Giving you benefit of the doubt




The insurance is covered by the pilots federation.

What you're paying is, essentially, the excess on the policy. If you don't pay the excess, you're in breach of the contract and the insurance company is no longer obliged to give you anything.

However, the pilots federation will help you out in this case, and let you have an insured sidewinder.

The only thing really missing from the game are the pilots federation fees.

Who's up for campaigning for a 50,000 credit per week pilots license maintenance fee?
Click to expand...

The ironic thing was that he was in the pilots federation system.
 

skyforger

S
dcforeman said:
So, you have an Asp Explorer it's worth 6,500,000 credits. Your ship gets destroyed, and you are presented with an insurance screen. For the most part, I ignored it. You get a loan, you get your ship back at a fraction of the cost. It's all good normally, and to be honest I didn't pay any attention to it until today when I couldn't afford a new ship. Yeah I had a temper trantrum, I mean who wouldn't after you'd lost 7.5 million in ship and upgrades... moving past that.

It got me thinking about the existing system... why does the ASP explorer only cost 250,000 credits when it is destroyed? The ship was worth 7.5 million, that's 1/30th of the ship cost. Also, why is there a loan of 200,000 credits available? In what practical way does that make sense? Sure I know it's only a game, but it's supposed to be a space trading game set in the future. That means an established economic system right?

Who exactly is going out, buying new ships, kitting them out at a 7.5 million value then selling them on to the player for 1/30th of the cost? Who is making money? What possible business model could ever exist that ensures that every time a ship is lost they lose 7.25 million credits?

We all know how real world insurance works, you pay X a month, and if your car is totalled you get a replacement. It's a regular payment based on how safely you drive. If you are a crazy nutjob making claims all the time your insurance costs will go through the roof. You benefit for no claims bonuses if you are very safe and never claim from them. This system punishes terrible drivers and rewards good drivers.

But in the elite universe, you only apparently pay the insurance company money + a bank loan when your ships dies. That means they only receive money when your ship is ended at a fraction of the ships cost...

No, this system needs to be rethought. There should be daily or weekly charge. That's how real world insurance works. So why the heck is it so weird in Elite? why as a business model doesn't it make any sense at all?

Or worse still are we all paying 7.5 million credits for a ship that can be manufacturered and delivered to the player for just 250,000 credits... in which case who the heck is getting the 7.25 million credit per ASP and how can I get in on that racket? haha
Click to expand...
dude stop whining do what you said you were going to in ur last post and leave, the insurance is 4% of of your ships cost so if you are sensible and keep money to pay insurance you don't loose your hard earned cash, its you own fault for not having the insurance cash to fall back on, the insurance for my ship is 6 million so i have effictivly lost that but im glad for insurance i dont want to grind to 200 mil again
 

Renegade Roach

R
Kitiara said:
Who's up for campaigning for a 50,000 credit per week pilots license maintenance fee?
Click to expand...

Only if we can opt out and fly for alternative 'Federations'... preferably one made up of dastardly pirates and smugglers. Might not pay our insurance but sure there would be other 'benefits'.
 

bamber

B
As soon as you get above the asp the game mechanics wont cover it - easy to see easy to understand

You messed up by not keeping your old ships

Stop shifting the blame for your ineptitude
.
.
.
.
You don't see me blaming the game for the 400Cr fine I just picked up because I launched and replied to your thread and then realised that countdown counter was at 3 seconds do you?

No cos it was my fault
 
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dcforeman

D
skyforger said:
dude stop whining do what you said you were going to in ur last post and leave, the insurance is 4% of of your ships cost so if you are sensible and keep money to pay insurance you don't loose your hard earned cash, its you own fault for not having the insurance cash to fall back on, the insurance for my ship is 6 million so i have effictivly lost that but im glad for insurance i dont want to grind to 200 mil again
Click to expand...

Dude learn to read.
 

Speculative

Speculative
This is a game. If they wanted, the galaxy could charge you an amount every month to cover your insurance, then make you pay an excess. And as the ships get bigger and more costly so goes up your monthly contributions. Do you have no claims bonus? Nope? Whack another few thousand on.

Do you think the player base would like that?

The system we have is "this will be your excess if you go splat" your choice is whether to go with it or not. It may not be perfect, but go out and try to get RL insurance on that lively Rolls Royce you always liked or similar!

This is simple, effective and does the job. You know about in, his was YOUR mistake, not bad game mechanics.
 

Jaiotu

Jaiotu
dcforeman said:
People forget the previous thread and read what I said. As an economic model the Insurance system makes no sense. This is a serious question not a rant.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Dude, learn to read the post before you have a hissy fit. I wasn't complaining that I couldn't get my ship back. I was asking, why the insurance system makes no sense as a real world business model.

I hate lazy forum users who can't read.
Click to expand...

Yeah... I actually read the post. Finally a discussion of insurance that is worthwhile. To the other responders: he's not whining about losing his ship, he is questioning how the insurance model makes any sense at all. In real-life car insurance you pay a monthly premium that keeps the insurance company in business. Wreckless drivers pay more than drivers with a clean driving record.

The OP is absolutely right. The current system makes absolutely no sense. I don't pay anything up front for the insurance but the moment my ship goes boom the insurance company comes in and gives me a whole new ship for a fraction of the cost.

What would make more sense is for the insurance company to receive a "cut" of my regular profits. If they make money when I make money then it would make perfect sense for them to want to see me back out flying again.
 

Liance

L
Yeah, read his whole thread. He isn't the typical whino, he's wondering why we do not PAY for our insurance which is something I've been wondering myself. I've only died twice (both of my own doing... stupid boost) after which I learned how to fly and dock properly and I think only paying 10% for replacement is fantastic! Obviously this game is not 100% realistic, if we died we could not come back, but yeah this insurance policy must be government run because such a business model would not last for a private company.
 

Ian Phillips

Volunteer Moderator
Ian Phillips
This is a thread airing a legitimate concern. As I said in the "other" thread - do not post denigrating comments. These WILL get you warnings.
 

Kitiara

Kitiara
From the Manual


Your first ship is essentially on loan, and covered by a comprehensive insurance policy, ensuring
that you only have to pay a bounty or fine to be issued with a replacement.


Any modules you purchase and fit to this ship are covered by a lesser insurance – should they
need to be replaced you will have to pay a premium excess.


Should you purchase a ship, then this too is covered by a lesser insurance policy – should it be
destroyed, you will need to pay a premium excess for it and all modules fitted.


Although the premium excess fees are only small fractions of the ship and modules’ actual
worth, the resulting bill can still become significant, potentially more than you can afford.
In such circumstances you have a number of options. Assuming you have enough to cover
the hull cost (which includes all mandatory modules), you can choose not to pay for optional
modules, reducing the cost.


You have access to a creditor who can lend you up to 200,000CR. If you take this option, any
credits you make will have 10% deducted at source until the debt is paid.
If you have ships in storage, you can choose to abandon your current vessel claim and select
a ship in storage to activate.


If you have no ships and not enough credits to even pay the bounty or fine you owe at the
starport or outpost you arrive at after your ship has been destroyed, you are declared bankrupt.
All debt and crimes are cleared and you are transported to your starting location where you
receive a new loaned starting ship.


Effectively, your career is reset, but note that you retain all reputation and rank gained/lost (to
clear your career completely you will need to clear your save from the main menu).
 
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