Elite is a space sim?

[Cmnd Fulsom]

So, I've been hearing that basically since I joined the forums, and frankly, you could have fooled me. So let's get into this. what do expect of a space sim? Well preferably it should simulate space and space travel, but honestly? Elite, any space station that allows a captain to fire their afterburners in the vicinity of the station does not remain a station long, if you catch my meaning. For that matter if you really wanted to simulate space travel there would be a lot more time between jumping into a system and getting to a station, forgiving for now warp jump technology existing at all, fact is, we're simulating space travel, that means long periods of cryo sleep when not warp jumping from place to place. If we accept faster than light travel then how do you explain our field of view not expanding to literally behind us as we outpace the light coming off the star (I'll leave alone that the G-forces of moving that fast would just kill you). Oh, and let's not forget, glass cockpits? On a space ship? that more than likely will be engaging in combat? Sure Elite, that's not a terrible idea in any fashion, really.

My point is this, I like Elite, I enjoy the game a lot. But let's not kid ourselves, Elite is perhaps the most arcadey game. It is far more accurate to call it a massively multiplayer spaghetti western in space. And frankly, doesn't that sound way cooler than space sim? But, if you are interested in a faithful space sim... Scott Manley spotlighted what appears to be a VERY faithful space simulator not terribly long ago. I'm on a limited connection right now, but later on I'll see if I can't find the video, it actually looks really interesting, if only for it's sheer ocean like depth.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

It's a game. Supposed to be fun. So no cryo sleep I am afraid. But personally I like jumping between systems in second rather than taking actual years.

 

[Cmdr Rhott Roe]

I couldn't possibly make a billion credits in a space sim. I much prefer E's version.

 

[Mohrgan]

I consider Elite to be a Galaxy simulator, with a Sci Fi, space travel filter. The speeds and distances that we travel are utter fantasy. So, with that FD are free to create a environment suited to nothing other than entertaining us.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

So, I've been hearing that basically since I joined the forums, and frankly, you could have fooled me. So let's get into this. what do expect of a space sim? Well preferably it should simulate space and space travel, but honestly? Elite, any space station that allows a captain to fire their afterburners in the vicinity of the station does not remain a station long, if you catch my meaning. For that matter if you really wanted to simulate space travel there would be a lot more time between jumping into a system and getting to a station, forgiving for now warp jump technology existing at all, fact is, we're simulating space travel, that means long periods of cryo sleep when not warp jumping from place to place. If we accept faster than light travel then how do you explain our field of view not expanding to literally behind us as we outpace the light coming off the star (I'll leave alone that the G-forces of moving that fast would just kill you). Oh, and let's not forget, glass cockpits? On a space ship? that more than likely will be engaging in combat? Sure Elite, that's not a terrible idea in any fashion, really.

My point is this, I like Elite, I enjoy the game a lot. But let's not kid ourselves, Elite is perhaps the most arcadey game. It is far more accurate to call it a massively multiplayer spaghetti western in space. And frankly, doesn't that sound way cooler than space sim? But, if you are interested in a faithful space sim... Scott Manley spotlighted what appears to be a VERY faithful space simulator not terribly long ago. I'm on a limited connection right now, but later on I'll see if I can't find the video, it actually looks really interesting, if only for it's sheer ocean like depth.

When Kerbal Space Program gets turned into an MMO, then you can arguably claim that it's possible to make an accurate space sim multiplayer game that doesn't bore the player into a coma before they ever leave orbit.

Who gets to click the time acceleration button for the galaxy?

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Elite is a space sim
It's also a retro-remake
It's also an RPG
It's also an MMO
It's also an arcade shooter
It's also a trading/economy game

Try satisfying all those crowds at once
It is the most scientifically accurate on this scale (as it's the only one of this scale currently released ). Universe is fairly well mapped, it has access to newtonian physics etc etc. But some elements have been dumbed for gameplay purposes as you said.

I believe it is primarily marketed as an MMO with RPG and Arcade elements so take from that what you will. In my opinion the whole realism element is more a bonus to those that want it like the folks who explore a lot and note interesting planets with the exact atmosphere compositions and so-on, doesn't really detract from my game since if you want 100% immersion it becomes unplayable since if it were 100% realistic then 99% of folk would be working day-jobs on planets and stations...

 

[777Driver]

I have always leant towards the more hardcore sims, 30 minutes just to do a preflight, and hour or more just on fuel planning and take off performance calculations. Op - your post is just downright silly, ED is a game, thankfully with a few hardcore sim elements thrown in -

Let's not forget that we have no idea what space travel will be like in the next 3000 years (if we don't wipe ourselves off the planet) Talk of cryo sleep/ G-force tolerance or glass canopies (doubt it is even glass in 3301) Is rather pointless.

It is Just...A....Game

 

[Cmnd Fulsom]

I understand that, I realize that things must be given up for the fun. But the fact remains, if you don't simulate being in space, are you really a space sim? Those were just the pretty obvious nitpicky things too, but there are other, more integral things, for instance, Newtonian physics don't work that way Elite.

But even other things, like going through your ship's start up sequence aren't included, stuff like that which you would really expect from a simulator. It's like saying Elite is a hard Si-fi game in spite of all the crazy impossible crap in the game (like traveling faster than light, requiring infinite energy to do so, but doing this on a finite amount of fuel that is consumed in the process). It is not at all a condemnation of the game as a game to say that no that is not the appropriate label.

I actually like Galaxy simulator, that is a far more accurate description of the game. As I said, I actually really like the game, the ore design of the galaxy is really, really solid. It is not at all a stretch to call the game a masterpiece simply because of the sense of scale it delivers while simultaneously having the galaxy actually be pretty small.

But again, all that said, Space Sim is really not the proper label for the game. I still say MMSWIS is my call, but it doesn't really roll off the tongue...

 

[tucker]

It's a game. Supposed to be fun. So no cryo sleep I am afraid. But personally I like jumping between systems in second rather than taking actual years.

I like the idea of it taking years. by the time you get to a planet all the updates will be done and we could fly amongst the cities, land, get out catch a taxi and sit a bar.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I understand that, I realize that things must be given up for the fun. But the fact remains, if you don't simulate being in space, are you really a space sim? Those were just the pretty obvious nitpicky things too, but there are other, more integral things, for instance, Newtonian physics don't work that way Elite.

But even other things, like going through your ship's start up sequence aren't included, stuff like that which you would really expect from a simulator. It's like saying Elite is a hard Si-fi game in spite of all the crazy impossible crap in the game (like traveling faster than light, requiring infinite energy to do so, but doing this on a finite amount of fuel that is consumed in the process). It is not at all a condemnation of the game as a game to say that no that is not the appropriate label.

I actually like Galaxy simulator, that is a far more accurate description of the game. As I said, I actually really like the game, the ore design of the galaxy is really, really solid. It is not at all a stretch to call the game a masterpiece simply because of the sense of scale it delivers while simultaneously having the galaxy actually be pretty small.

But again, all that said, Space Sim is really not the proper label for the game. I still say MMSWIS is my call, but it doesn't really roll off the tongue...

Haha, ok I can agree with the label being wrong but afaik it was never sold as that, just people on the forums that like to stir

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Scott Manley spotlighted what appears to be a VERY faithful space simulator not terribly long ago. I'm on a limited connection right now, but later on I'll see if I can't find the video, it actually looks really interesting, if only for it's sheer ocean like depth.

You mean Rogue System. Looks good - I'll back it once it has VR support (sorry - I've backed IL-2 BOS because they stated they'd implement VR support - now they don't, so that's 200€ down the toilet for me and I'll only back games after VR support is in).

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It's a mix between sim and a game. It has its roots deep into simulation part, it tries to make universe to appear random where every situation is unique, there's no feel of going around around. It doesn't succeed in that 100%, but it's getting there. But for the rest of it it's a game. So it looks to balance things.

It's MMO by structure but people will argue to death that it's not because this or that feature is missing. Yet it is massive, you can meet a lot players playing in open play, and wing with them and do stuff together.

TLDR to me it's online simulation game. Game part is what makes it enjoyable, simulation part is what it makes every case and situation unique more or less, and online part makes it feel alive with unpredictability other players bring in.

 

[William J Smith]

Well if you want a real space sim with proper physics and everything that goes with them..

Kerbal space program fits the bill nicely, as recommended by the great Scott Manly himself.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-ZlXbhKDI6m0IQGGSNvtaw[/video]


Bill


Oh and they have a device to speed up the passage of time too

 

[Jenner]

Is it fun and internally consistent? Then it's all good!

 

[Chaz]

Modern present day jet liner aircraft can already take off and land by themselves with little to no input by the pilot if needs be. Given the massive complexities of interstellar space travel when it is finally possible, I expect the process would be even more automated and free from human error than our current modes of transport. It would probably be a case of just selecting a destination and letting a highly advanced AI do the rest. That of course would not make for a very fun game though.

 

[777Driver]

Modern present day jet liner aircraft can already take off and land by themselves with little to no input by the pilot if needs be.

Absolute rubbish, where did you get that idea from?

 

[Iskariot]

Elite is a space sim?

You can label it whatever you want. It is what it is.
And as far as I am concerned it is great.
I could never have dreamed of all this when I was playing Frontier Elite II 20 years ago.

As you said ED is a game and therefore has to make concessions. As the devs have said many times: "Gameplay first".
If it was a super realistic sim we would never be leaving the Sol system and it would take months to get to Mars .
Saying that I am happy that FD decided to choose a more gamey route is an understatement.

But ED is also a sim in the sense that it is the only game that attempts to simulate our galaxy in a very convincing and beautiful way.
ED is unique in that respect.
For me at least ED is therefore the spacesim that rules them all.

By the way... were you perhaps thinking about the game 'Take on Mars'?
That does look very interesting and I might buy it when it is finished. It is not very realistic and quite limited though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rm06mV-VhY

I hope you were not referring to Ascent: The Space Game, because that is quite meh as far as I am concerned.

 

[Spanksh]

The ships are using frame shift, which is a theoretical model of movement faster than light, without breaking the laws of physics. No field of view changes, no acceleration. You are technically still moving at sub light speeds, simply the small area of space you are on is moving through space, not you moving through space. Imagine sitting on a carpet and being pulled over the floor.


But most importantly, if you want realism, then there would be no game. If it were realistic, no human would even pilot. Machines are better at everything, most certainly in a thousand years and most certainly in space flight. Even today's computers are a bazillion times better at driving cars than any human that ever lived. You really think anyone would even remotely get close to any sort of controls in a spaceship?
No pilots, no canopies, no sim, no game. /thread

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

I thought it was a fish.
I should probably speak to the translator guy again....

 

[Fenster]

Your ship does not go faster than light, it warps space around so you (shifts your "frame" of reference in elite terms)... So you get the trekky light streaks

It may not be glass but some exotic transparent alloy

And no cryosleep required when you have the ability to get somewhere quickly
And... They are not afterburners,, it's some form of energy surge through your future space propulsion engines , about which we know nothing how it works other than it uses the same type of energy reserves that the weapons and shields use