If engineers were far less powerful (and players), if security and ATR were kept the same (i.e. on par or above players), if security levels were updated, you'd have a difficulty slider built right into the game, invisible and totally within a players control.
Elite IS too easy
- Thread starter Cheese Helmet
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If engineers were far less powerful (and players), if security and ATR were kept the same (i.e. on par or above players), if security levels were updated, you'd have a difficulty slider built right into the game, invisible and totally within a players control.
After having been ganked in too many games previous to this one, I'm quite happy to be a despised solo player.
The BGS runs on units of effort, quite often low end missions done a lot is better than one high end mission (like low CZs v high ones). For the BGS at least, having easy PvE distorts how the BGS should really work- i.e. harder missions gain more for you.
I always bang on about Powerplay (really?) but the same is true here- if PvE in Powerplay outside of the gathering was harder (i.e. you had high end assassins after you in solo and there were more places to be attacked by them) you'd not have so much angst with PP being pan modal because solo would not be risk free in the delivery phase.
you can be Elite trade rank in this game in a shieldless T6 on a 50~ ton cargo haul mission and spawn a dangerous or higher Anaconda which you have no hope of beating. or you could take the same mission in a g5 prismatic python.
I categorically disagree with the idea that Elite is an easy game. most people, including me, couldn't even beat the advanced combat tutorial mission the first couple times.
the problem with Elite is that all the procedural systems make for a hugely haphazard experience and the lack of forced interaction with them is the easiest way of achieving balance. it's not that the game is easy in a lot of places but that it's just got a lot of workarounds. granted, there is an engineering gap as previously indicated at the peak of npc capabilities compared to players'. that is one area where the game really is easy. but it's not so pronounced in cz spec ops. cz spec ops just don't proc everywhere. and nor would I want them to personally because if cz spec ops-level npc were procing on every mission I'd eventually get sick of it. given that I currently spend a lot of time in Keelback and lower, I already have a certain amount of trouble with just regular mission spawns.
other games can scale difficulty more easily because other games have more controlled structures. here, Frontier has to create procedural content generation systems and then create systems to scale the procedural generation systems.
if we start getting rid of the workarounds, we need to create more stable structures around which to balance.
I personally think the bubble should be retconned and something like a weight should be implemented for security level that diminishes with increased distance from superpower homeworlds. system states, government types, power influences, these can all affect the security level, but the distance-from-home weight has first billing. so the frontier only becomes the frontier when it's actually the frontier.
I also think cargo bays should be unhooked from outfitting to allow people to always equip their ships for utility and defense. cargo racks should be separate and set for each ship.
the geography of the bubble, the relevance of system security, the intelligence of random npc spawning, the accuracy of the mission board, and ship outfitting all need changes if elite is going to stop being easy in the way it is now.
great if it happens. better Elite is great. but if Elite's difficulty were just tuned up without altering the game first I think it would create more problems than it solved.
I categorically disagree with the idea that Elite is an easy game. most people, including me, couldn't even beat the advanced combat tutorial mission the first couple times.
the problem with Elite is that all the procedural systems make for a hugely haphazard experience and the lack of forced interaction with them is the easiest way of achieving balance. it's not that the game is easy in a lot of places but that it's just got a lot of workarounds. granted, there is an engineering gap as previously indicated at the peak of npc capabilities compared to players'. that is one area where the game really is easy. but it's not so pronounced in cz spec ops. cz spec ops just don't proc everywhere. and nor would I want them to personally because if cz spec ops-level npc were procing on every mission I'd eventually get sick of it. given that I currently spend a lot of time in Keelback and lower, I already have a certain amount of trouble with just regular mission spawns.
other games can scale difficulty more easily because other games have more controlled structures. here, Frontier has to create procedural content generation systems and then create systems to scale the procedural generation systems.
if we start getting rid of the workarounds, we need to create more stable structures around which to balance.
I personally think the bubble should be retconned and something like a weight should be implemented for security level that diminishes with increased distance from superpower homeworlds. system states, government types, power influences, these can all affect the security level, but the distance-from-home weight has first billing. so the frontier only becomes the frontier when it's actually the frontier.
I also think cargo bays should be unhooked from outfitting to allow people to always equip their ships for utility and defense. cargo racks should be separate and set for each ship.
the geography of the bubble, the relevance of system security, the intelligence of random npc spawning, the accuracy of the mission board, and ship outfitting all need changes if elite is going to stop being easy in the way it is now.
great if it happens. better Elite is great. but if Elite's difficulty were just tuned up without altering the game first I think it would create more problems than it solved.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The introduction of Engineers marked a step change - a reduction in perceived difficulty provided by NPCs (for those who had engineered their ships) as the game still requires to be played by those who either haven't (or can't) augmented their ship. In a recent statement to the market, Frontier advised that Horizons has been bought by about 50% of those who own the base game.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Why should the game be changed to discourage some players from playing outside the bubble?
Pirates shouldn't exist far from populated systems - so wouldn't in most of the galaxy.
Horizons really needs to go.
if you're FDEV, fold Horizons into basegame when New Era launches!
What a novel idea, restrict some content to be solely for 'bored because it is too easy' players....
While I have some sympathy for those who consider this game to be too easy, creating 'lucrative resources' for a tiny minority of the playerbase is a little biased, surely?
To add a sense of actual threat and danger, which the thread is about. Games have restrictions all the time. If you want to play casually and without defenses, you can play in the bubble. I don't see the issue with that. It's no different from needing the right gear to complete a dungeon in a fantasy game, for example.
And pirates absolutely should exist (not exclusively though) in distant systems, as there they'd logically be able to establish a presence away from the dominance of governments. I'd like to see them form their own minor factions and aggressively control systems, maybe with a new system state attached to warn the player. Not all systems everywhere though! There should still be a ton of empty, vacant space.
I don't mean have zero lucrative resource in bubble space. Just increase the chances of better resources and rarer discoveries the farther out you go.
That suggestion makes perfect sense!
I know - I just had my pedantic hat on
The game stays vanilla because it can only scale 'so far' and still permit less able players (like me) to have a 'reasonable' level of challenge. (I can never 'git gud' over where I already am, RL limitations) It does mean that players who have much higher levels of skill remain unchallenged unless they go play tag with a Spec Ops wing in a CZ or annoy Thargoids in a NHSS Threat 9... Who knows what Next Era will bring, maybe a bone will be thrown with enough challenge scaling for everyone - I doubt it, but can hope.
I know - I just had my pedantic hat on
The game stays vanilla because it can only scale 'so far' and still permit less able players (like me) to have a 'reasonable' level of challenge. (I can never 'git gud' over where I already am, RL limitations) It does mean that players who have much higher levels of skill remain unchallenged unless they go play tag with a Spec Ops wing in a CZ or annoy Thargoids in a NHSS Threat 9... Who knows what Next Era will bring, maybe a bone will be thrown with enough challenge scaling for everyone - I doubt it, but can hope.
I really hope New Era brings new challenging content.
And how many hours playtime have those who didn't buy horizons accumulated since then compared to those who did?
Hopefully, in just a couple more months, FD will lay out what we can expect. They are apparently promising something 'game-changing'
I hope it really is "game-changing" and not "changing-games".Hopefully, in just a couple more months, FD will lay out what we can expect. They are apparently promising something 'game-changing'
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If Horizons was wrapped into the main game and the challenge of NPCs increased in general then complaints of players "being forced to Engineer" would begin in earnest.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Only Frontier knows - and they're not telling.
That logic isn’t really sound. Players without horizons can still encounter engineered npcs and players. What new thing would they encounter to make them say that?
also there’s seems to be pretty wide spread general agreement that changes to Make systems interaction with the player reflecting state, sec, alignment and other factors would be beneficial to the overall game.