almostpilot
Banned
I just add that besides the missions do not work, they still need to be more "deepest".
Horizons Elite Needs Game Designers
- Thread starter Blackcompany
- Start date
I just add that besides the missions do not work, they still need to be more "deepest".
You cant write your own story as nothing you do has any effect. And the argument Blaze your own Trail is a cheep trick to cover up for missing content and game mechanics.
Here s a computer, write your own game. But pay me for it. Muahahaha
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Hard to write your own story when all the story ends up being:
Today I collected 20 bounties.
Today I transported 10 items from point A to point B for my faction.
Today I mined 40 fragments and got 5 ore to sell.
Today I looted 5 cargocans for salvage mission.
See a pattern?
It's chasing numbers. Nothing more. Either kill X, collect Y or transport Z.
Bounty hunting don't lead to repercussions.
Mining doesn't allow for refining and building with the ore you find.
Piracy doesn't cause bounty hunters to actively hunt for you through numerous systems.
It's a never-ending hamsterwheel of chasing numbers. Kill, collect or transport is that is done. The core mechanic is copy/pasted and reused for, well, powerplay (go kill X or transport Y), or landing on planets (go collect X items or kill Y hoverships).
I got bored of chasing numbers 6 months ago. I want to like this game, but once you realize every missions is the same, only different name for the item and slightly different description but otherwise ZERO difference in how you execute and finish it... well... it becomes routine, and routine leads to boredom.
Game needs more depth.
Anyone who thinks it doesn't must either be fairly new to the game, or a firebrand fanboy, let me tell you that.
I agree with OP, and to use words well put by Stanislaw Lem in his "Summa Techngologiae/Golem XIV" (it's not a quotation though):
Current state of ED is like building super-advanced space rockets - using faster-than-light computers and technologies indistinguishable from magic - that explode as soon as you remove scaffolding.
PowerPlay is the best example here: all of this complicated background simulation, hundreds of variables taken into consideration, and what do players get out of it?
Deliver Trade Agreements, a.k.a. more trading boredom. Did I mentioned boring trading? And what if you flip a power and get that 50% increase in trading income as a result? You're welcome to do even more trading you were sick of in the first place.
Same goes for planetary landings - the amount of engineering genius behind it is simply staggering! What do players get out of it? Pointless POIs (no pun intended), more RNGed stuff like escape pods, surface factories producing tea 12k Ly from inhabited space.
In short words: the engineering marvel running the show for us does not meet its equivalent in cohesion department. What FDs programming virtuosos did, is then not capitalized upon with equally well thought out game content. It's like giving the paint and a brush to someone who doesn't know what to do with it, and instead of Mona Lisa, we end up with modern art, the kind of "yellow line on blue background" one.
And this pattern is seen all across the game so I agree with OP - it's time engineers did their job (which they are doing fantastically), and game design given to game designers who can turn engineers' achievements into profit - both for the company, and for players.
Current state of ED is like building super-advanced space rockets - using faster-than-light computers and technologies indistinguishable from magic - that explode as soon as you remove scaffolding.
PowerPlay is the best example here: all of this complicated background simulation, hundreds of variables taken into consideration, and what do players get out of it?
Deliver Trade Agreements, a.k.a. more trading boredom. Did I mentioned boring trading? And what if you flip a power and get that 50% increase in trading income as a result? You're welcome to do even more trading you were sick of in the first place.
Same goes for planetary landings - the amount of engineering genius behind it is simply staggering! What do players get out of it? Pointless POIs (no pun intended), more RNGed stuff like escape pods, surface factories producing tea 12k Ly from inhabited space.
In short words: the engineering marvel running the show for us does not meet its equivalent in cohesion department. What FDs programming virtuosos did, is then not capitalized upon with equally well thought out game content. It's like giving the paint and a brush to someone who doesn't know what to do with it, and instead of Mona Lisa, we end up with modern art, the kind of "yellow line on blue background" one.
And this pattern is seen all across the game so I agree with OP - it's time engineers did their job (which they are doing fantastically), and game design given to game designers who can turn engineers' achievements into profit - both for the company, and for players.
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Personally I look forward to 2.1.
So far I have enjoyed this game alot.
Of course; a little break here and there is always nice; even nicer to come back.
Even though things can be approved, I can't say I dislike much, as the game is now.
Luckily; improving is what the dev-team is doing.
More juice for the Powerplay, better missions from the BB; it's all coming.
And while I wait, I fly around in space and enjoy it.
So far I have enjoyed this game alot.
Of course; a little break here and there is always nice; even nicer to come back.
Even though things can be approved, I can't say I dislike much, as the game is now.
Luckily; improving is what the dev-team is doing.
More juice for the Powerplay, better missions from the BB; it's all coming.
And while I wait, I fly around in space and enjoy it.
Are you quite sure? That all of Elite is what should remain to be?
Would you entirely agree with all of the following?
Elite is... cargo canisters that are legal to scoop on the ground, but illegal to scoop in space.
Elite is... an omnipresent map company that refuses to sell you their maps for systems further than 20 light years from your current location.
Elite is... an omnipresent map company that refuses to buy your maps for systems closer than 20 light years from your current location.
Elite is... a political landscape in which an Imperial Earl with "clean" legal status, pledged to support an Imperial power figure, in a system with Imperial government jurisdiction, can be legally attacked by "clean" Federation agents.
Elite is... gold being traded and shipped by the tonne, as opposed to being traded and shipped by the kilogram (as was the case in the original 1984 Elite).
If every one of these makes perfect sense to you, improves your feelings of coherence and consistency, and are beyond any attempt at improvement, that's fine.
But some players, myself included, see definite room for improvement.
Universal Cartographics could be so much more than a button for selling scans.
PowerPlay could be so much more integrated with the background sim.
Surely we can politely and constructively discuss the potential areas for improvement without having the discussion itself decried as "the biggest issue with ED"!?!?
The biggest problem FD has is that people seem to forget that ED has only been in development for 3 years...which is nothing in the grand scheme of things for a game of this nature, especially since everyone can feel the potential for what this could be further down the line. And people want all the things right this moment. They also want it for free...god forbid if they have to pay for expansions!!!
The biggest problem that FDev has with E: D is that they have a large contingent of players that have already payed for the game for life...who fail to understand that the game has to be continuously funded through annual sales.
If the game is fully funded for its 10 year run..then, fine, everyone can sit down, shut up, and wait for the end. I would be completely amazed if this was the case. I COULD see the Roller Coaster game providing enough profits for E: D to keep going...if the game creates enough profits to support its own development.
Otherwise, increasing bad press for E: D means it fails to reach its 10 year goal to completion...it might be a 15 year or 20 year goal...or, more likely, a shuttering of the game.
Personally, I pay annually, for the game...but that's me. I tend to hold onto my power as a consumer...and feel if the cost is higher I am supporting development.
I don't agree there is no content, but I do agree there should be more tools to write your own story.
Yes, I can be a trader and fly my ship back and forth with cargo. But I can't build a trading empire this way. I can't build space convoys, hire pilots to work for me, get some influence. It's just the means to get a more expensive ship with better equipment.
I can mine asteroids, but I can't establish a mining outpost and organise business and logistics side of things, have specialised mining equipment, pilots to protect the endeavour, pilots to run trade and supply routes.
I can be a fighter pilot, but no matter how many enemy ships I take down, this won't change the balance of power. If I get higher ranks, they have no meaning and become just an empty title. They don't grant me access to special military technology, they don't give me wingmen to support me, they don't give me more sophisticated, more complex missions.
I can be an explorer, but that, apart from the cool sights, is flying from one planet to another and one system to another. Like a bee from flower to flower. I can't establish a research base and organise probes going to planets in the system to examine them. I have to collect the data manually. I can't send out probes to scout for resources and get unique data about the system I'm in. I can't land on a planet and discover ruins of some extinct race nor meet some alien civilization.
But hopefully, with time Frontier will add more complexity to the game, so here's hoping we will get some more tools to write more interesting stories. For now I'm definitely done with doing the missions. If they are about bouncing back and forth between several systems, stations and outposts, if some of them are 150000ls away from the system's sun and take forever to get to without anything special or interesting waiting at the end, and all missions are about some random write up I don't even have to read to complete them, that doesn't seem to have much sense.
The game is nice for what it is, at least to me, but it seems there is plenty of space for more epic adventures there.
Yeah, there are no bad games, not even bad movies or books. In fact, I prefer reading books with empty pages, because this makes me creative to the max! If a game seems bad to you, you have to hallucinate that it is good and everything is fine.
I think some peoples miss the point they are building this huge game step by step. David Braben cares it did well not in a poor way and we can see how much was done. All you see now is itself a base for further steps and things which they will build upon. Pay attention to all details, you will find your ship was designed having in mind to walk inside. You will find space stations was designed having in mind further walking inside. Planets to land on. First geology, then vulcanism, then spaceports and various missions. Then atmosphere, then life, then civilization ( maybe in another season after earth like planets, mainly for that, i will not be suprised due to the amount of work required ) and more and more missions, all on a massive scale 1:1. Massive civilization you can see from orbit, expecially at night side etc. Powerplay is just at beginning and the new mission system will further give a huge renew on all that.
The new mission system itself is a base for further deep evolution to build on, like NPC interactions while you walk in spaceports for example. And while various things happen beetween the minor factions or bigger ones in powerplay.
Exploration, space ships, powerplay and deep mission system they will gradually bring every kind of space adventure we can dream of. Step by step. While is good to give suggestions, keep in mind that, step by step. You talked about imagination, let's start to use ours to figure out what will be the next steps which one they already build the foundations.
One space station ring is about 6km of diameter or more for example. Gameplay surface of just one ring like that is big like GTA IV men !!! It's a huge work, but they are giving us a well playable game with every expansion, not a broken alpha And every expansion is like a new game as contents and timeplay added.
The more I look into in this way, the more I love Elite and this wonderful project they are doing with so much accuracy. They perfectly know about other contents, but they will do step by step.
This is Cmdr John_ , out
The new mission system itself is a base for further deep evolution to build on, like NPC interactions while you walk in spaceports for example. And while various things happen beetween the minor factions or bigger ones in powerplay.
Exploration, space ships, powerplay and deep mission system they will gradually bring every kind of space adventure we can dream of. Step by step. While is good to give suggestions, keep in mind that, step by step. You talked about imagination, let's start to use ours to figure out what will be the next steps which one they already build the foundations.
One space station ring is about 6km of diameter or more for example. Gameplay surface of just one ring like that is big like GTA IV men !!!
It's a huge work, but they are giving us a well playable game with every expansion, not a broken alpha And every expansion is like a new game as contents and timeplay added.The more I look into in this way, the more I love Elite and this wonderful project they are doing with so much accuracy. They perfectly know about other contents, but they will do step by step.
This is Cmdr John_ , out
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love it +1 rep
A source for this?
Here you go.
http://www.frontier.co.uk/jobs/cambridge_vacancies/
I think some peoples miss the point they are building this huge game step by step. David Braben cares it did well not in a poor way and we can see how much was done. All you see now is itself a base for further steps and things which they will build upon. Pay attention to all details, you will find your ship was designed having in mind to walk inside. You will find space stations was designed having in mind further walking inside. Planets to land on. First geology, then vulcanism, then spaceports and various missions. Then atmosphere, then life, then civilization ( maybe in another season after earth like planets, mainly for that, i will not be suprised due to the amount of work required ) and more and more missions, all on a massive scale 1:1. Massive civilization you can see from orbit, expecially at night side etc. Powerplay is just at beginning and the new mission system will further give a huge renew on all that.
The new mission system itself is a base for further deep evolution to build on, like NPC interactions while you walk in spaceports for example. And while various things happen beetween the minor factions or bigger ones in powerplay.
Exploration, space ships, powerplay and deep mission system they will gradually bring every kind of space adventure we can dream of. Step by step. While is good to give suggestions, keep in mind that, step by step. You talked about imagination, let's start to use ours to figure out what will be the next steps which one they already build the foundations.
One space station ring is about 6km of diameter or more for example. Gameplay surface of just one ring like that is big like GTA IV men !!!
The more I look into in this way, the more I love Elite and this wonderful project they are doing with so much accuracy. They perfectly know about other contents, but they will do step by step.
This is Cmdr John_ , out
Good post.
[QUOTE sod that:
>>It lacks heart and soul. It lacks creativity. So please, go get some.
Fully concur; these guys are trying to be astrophysicists rather than gamers. Funnily enough I am astrophysicist, but I haven't played Elite for months because it is BORING.
Humans need stories.
Regards
>>It lacks heart and soul. It lacks creativity. So please, go get some.
Fully concur; these guys are trying to be astrophysicists rather than gamers. Funnily enough I am astrophysicist, but I haven't played Elite for months because it is BORING.
Humans need stories.
Regards
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What utter rot.. I and many others played the original Elite for many years without being bored and there was no "story" there.
Blackcompany
Banned
We at least need the tools to forge our own stories. And have this living universe recognize the things we do, and remember them, beyond a simple progress meter.
We need human reactions, persistent characters and a rugged, lived in universe, not cold, sterile numbers.
We need human reactions, persistent characters and a rugged, lived in universe, not cold, sterile numbers.
That's cool, but I remember playing many games without any story on Atari, Commodore or early PC. That was the way it was back then. Technical limitations were enforcing simplicity of the games and the game design industry and profession were just getting born. There are a few things to remember though. One, many people who were playing original Elite do not play computer games today and are likely to not have much time to play games today. They are an important group of people playing ED today, but I think their numbers are much lower than the number of players who never played original Elite or who even were not born yet back then. Two, we are in 2016. Gaming industry changed a lot and so have requirements and expectations of the gamers. If Elite Dangerous is going to focus on recreating the original title, that means choosing a perfect strategy to fail and disappear from the market. Being able to attract and keep new players is the key for the game to be successful and get developed further. And the game is going to have problems if storyline elements are not treated seriously...