Engineering : A compromise to prevent having to "grind" G1 --> G5 on every new module?

[Flin]

How is that any different to the engineer allowing you go straight to your max grade with them (as now), possibly just at an elevated price? ie: Why get the Tech Broker involved, as you'll only next have to possibly go the the Engineer to then work on it more?

This works for me too.

Why not have both options.

I can go to a tech brokers to get my basic G5 module at my convenience and then go later to the Engineer for additional enhancements.

Or go to the Engineer and do both G5 module purchase and then subsequent enhancements.

Personally, I don't want to click through 4 grades of enhancements progression to get to the G5 module I want. Not factoring the cost for the moment, I want to pay and fast track it.

 

[RandomGun]

Another suggestion (small effect): Material Traders could give you an increasing discount as you prove to be a loyal high volume customer. Trading up rate could change from initial 6:1 to 5:1 to 4:1.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

And what happens when those new players become experienced players?

From what we know this new system will be objectively better for roughly your first 20 mod's.
After that you'll need to find and spend roughly 20 extra mat's per mod'.
3 years in (2 proper years of playing), I have 35 ships, all fully modded, with a total of around 600 engineered modules (ignoring the 50-odd engineered modules I have stored).
That's roughly 12,000 extra mat's I'd have to collect under the new system, compared with the current one.

Can't see many new players being thrilled at the prospect of having to collect another 12,000 mat's more than I have.

Then they will have worked out the easy way and every one is good.

Why would you need to get an extra 20 mats per mod? All you need are 18 (6 of each mat) G5 mats per mod and on average you should be able to go from G1 to G5 in one sitting having six G1 rolls and 4 on G2, G3 ,G4 and G5 from just those mats and that doesn't include mats that you get in your day to day gaming. You should get a kickass mod from that.

 

[Stealthie]

Then they will have worked out the easy way and every one is good.

Why would you need to get an extra 20 mats per mod? All you need are 18 (6 of each mat) G5 mats per mod and on average you should be able to go from G1 to G5 in one sitting having six G1 rolls and 4 on G2, G3 ,G4 and G5 from just those mats and that doesn't include mats that you get in your day to day gaming. You should get a kickass mod from that.

You say that as if doing it is somehow better than, y'know, not having to do it at all.

*EDIT*

And, let's not forget that this is, allegedly, the new, improved, straightforward, linear, system you've been describing.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You say that as if doing it is somehow better than, y'know, not having to do it at all.

I am not say it is better or worse. At least in the new way you can't get a mod which is worse then your current one or the grade before, so there are aspects that are better, the downside is that we need to go through another process (materials broker) to have that upside. It is not all doom and gloom, there are benefits as well as negatives.

I can think of a much better system, but it would completely change the way engineers work and I don't think they were ever going to change the basics of it.

 

[NeilF]

You say that as if doing it is somehow better than, y'know, not having to do it at all.

Genius! Utter, total, genius!

Sums up the nonsense perfectly, and how immune people have got to it!


And the crazy thing? Of course everyone now should be going out and just buying shed loads of as many modules and weapons as they can and simply doing a single G5 roll on them, and then storing them. Because come the new mechanic, you can then roll these through G5 to what ever level you want, now skipping all the G1->G4 rolls you then be force to do.

Yes everyone should right now be buying modules and just doing a single G5 roll on them and storing them... Daft! - Yet, with the mechanic proposed in this very thread, it would most likely mean you can achieve exactly the same outcome! Like a nice compromise!!!



Personally? It's so totally inane as it is, and so totally more inane as it will become, I can't be bothered to go around G5'ing lots of modules!

ps: Sorry can't rep you again!

 

[Elan]

If we're talking compromises then at best I think we could imagine FDev accepting that each Blueprint you want to use might require levelling from G1-G5.

It would at least make the shiny new UI somewhat meaningful!

 

[-Denali-]

Sitting in dock and clicking a button 25-50 times per item isn't gameplay, it's a lobotomy. I don't see a reason to compromise, though anything would be better than the current idea. I honestly don't think they'll budge an inch on the issue though, so I'd rather remain adamant about it myself.

Be Kind, Stop the Grind!

 

[NeilF]

Sitting in dock and clicking a button 25-50 times per item isn't gameplay, it's a lobotomy. I don't see a reason to compromise, though anything would be better than the current idea. I honestly don't think they'll budge an inch on the issue though, so I'd rather remain adamant about it myself.

Be Kind, Stop the Grind!

Well, right now I believe there's loads of CMDRs demonstration how daft the upcoming mechanics will prove to be, by spending vaste amounts of time buying lots of modules and simply doing a single G5 roll on them and storing them, ready for when the new mechanics hit. This will then save them the entire G1->G4 grind wall.

And the crazy thing? This thread's proposal would give them exactly the same outcome (in most cases), all within the new mechanics.

 

[EUS]

If only there were a subforum to submit ideas and "give back" or "feed" ideas to those that are in charge of development.
Where all ideas would be concentrated in one place, and the developer could gain insight into where the pitfalls are from the customers who actually play the game a lot, or a little.
Ah, if only...

 

[nathanc213]

I had originally planned to come here to post an idea i had but after seeing you post i thought i'd post it here instead because the ideas are kind of similar.

The solution/compromise i was thinking of is if we have already done G1-G5 on one module we won't have to G1-G5 on another module of that type.

For example if i went to engineer a 5A FSD for my first time i would have to go through G1-G5 like normal, so if i later got another 5A FSD and wanted to engineer it i would be able to go straight to G5 because i have already engineered one of these modules. However if i got a 6A FSD and wanted to engineer it i would have to go through G1-G5.

I think this would alleviate most of the grind whilst still keeping the progression that FD want out of the system.

 

[NeilF]

I had originally planned to come here to post an idea i had but after seeing you post i thought i'd post it here instead because the ideas are kind of similar.

The solution/compromise i was thinking of is if we have already done G1-G5 on one module we won't have to G1-G5 on another module of that type.

For example if i went to engineer a 5A FSD for my first time i would have to go through G1-G5 like normal, so if i later got another 5A FSD and wanted to engineer it i would be able to go straight to G5 because i have already engineered one of these modules. However if i got a 6A FSD and wanted to engineer it i would have to go through G1-G5.

I think this would alleviate most of the grind whilst still keeping the progression that FD want out of the system.

Ummm that seems nigh on identical to the proposal in the OP? Except it doesn't specifically attempt to use the grand father approach which FD are using already when upgrading modules prior to beyond.

Ie: My proposal is trying to reuse exactly the same mechanic as FD are putting in.

Re-read the first post ☺

 

[The Chairmaker]

A while back i made a suggestion along the lines of allowing people to purchase pre engineered modules to the base of the level they are at. So you still have to engineer them to the top of that level.
However these would come at a large price premium and that would therefore vastly increase your rebuy cost.

A player going this route would have a very expensive ship. It would however help soak up some of the excess cash floating around the galaxy. It would also have a bearing if a player then had their ship blown up by in game criminals, as that would then offload a hefty rebuy onto the criminals under the new crime and punishment mechanic.

 

[nathanc213]

Ummm that seems nigh on identical to the proposal in the OP? Except it doesn't specifically attempt to use the grand father approach which FD are using already when upgrading modules prior to beyond.

Ie: My proposal is trying to reuse exactly the same mechanic as FD are putting in.

Re-read the first post ☺

Thinking about it now it is pretty much the same, still i found it easier to post it here than create an entirely new thread about it.

 

[NeilF]

Thinking about it now it is pretty much the same, still i found it easier to post it here than create an entirely new thread about it.

And for me, the main two positives about the proposal in the main thread are:-
1) It's simply achieving exactly what everyone is having to rediculously jump through hoops doing now. ie: Getting as many modules as they can, doing a single G5 roll on them, and storing them ready to then level up under the new mechanics. The proposal puts CMDRs ultimately in the same position without these stupid antics in the meantime (storing single G5 rolled modules).
2) Its using exactly the same "grand father" mechanics as is in place for upgrading legacy modules. So less work.

 

[Mole HD]

...And here was I wondering why the engineering systems were so busy. I thought at one point the entire population of Mobius was at Farseer for some PvE convention.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I don't say this glibly but have you watched last night's stream?

Sandro made it pretty obvious that he's committed to the idea of people gradually carrying out upgrades as and when they locate the required mat's.

Frankly, I think there's more chance of convincing my dog to guard a plate of sausages than there is of convincing players to upgrade their ships gradually.

Given the way that the mat' broker is intended to work (trading-down 1xG5 mat' for 3xG4 mat's etc), all that's likely to happen is that people will farm high-tier mat's that are fairly easy to find and then trade-down for all the intermediate mat's they require to get a G5 upgrade in one hit.

Complete waste of time and effort developing this, I'm afraid. [sad]

Please see my Request For Information thread.

...And here was I wondering why the engineering systems were so busy. I thought at one point the entire population of Mobius was at Farseer for some PvE convention.

Partial confirmation of my hypothesis. See my Request For Information thread.

 

[NeilF]

...And here was I wondering why the engineering systems were so busy. I thought at one point the entire population of Mobius was at Farseer for some PvE convention.

Everyone can see the Sandro grind wall coming, and are currently storing single G5 rolled modules. Doesn't this tell FD something about how folks see what's coming?

 

[Ziljan]

The compromise is that you'll be able to get a crapton of G1-G4 materials from your G3, G4, and G5 ingredients. So engineering G1-G4 should be fairly painless. Midrage ingredients are plentiful, and some high end ingredients aren't used in as many recipes, so they will essentially be midgrade ingredient pinatas.

For example, I have 50 unused MEBs in my inventory because MEBs (G5) are used in Overcharge mods. I can use these to get a couple hundred CIF (G3), which is a bottle-neck ingredient used in the majority of important top tier mod in the game: long range, double shot, Charged DPs, Dirty Drives, specialized SCBs.

 

[NeilF]

The compromise is that you'll be able to get a crapton of G1-G4 materials from your G3, G4, and G5 ingredients. So engineering G1-G4 should be fairly painless. Midrage ingredients are plentiful, and some high end ingredients aren't used in as many recipes, so they will essentially be midgrade ingredient pinatas.

For example, I have 50 unused MEBs in my inventory because MEBs (G5) are used in Overcharge mods. I can use these to get a couple hundred CIF (G3), which is a bottle-neck ingredient used in the majority of important top tier mod in the game: long range, double shot, Charged DPs, Dirty Drives, specialized SCBs.

And the sort of compromise you mention there is something I proposed years ago in the form of surely being able to hand in any material an engineer is interested in to build up your reputation with them. You then spend/use this reputation on your G1->G5 mods.

If you think, this is simply a streamlined version of what we have now, but without all the needless faff of have to collect individuals materials, go to Materal Brokers with spread sheets in hand, all to work out the materials you need for X rolls of G1, G2, G3, G4 and so on.

If we could just hand in any materials an Engineers is interested in for reputation with then, with common mats giving a small rise, and rare ones a large rise, the beauty would be all this daft spread sheet nonsense wouldn't be needed, and your relationship with an engineer would become a more relaxed and fun on.

ie: Periodically when you've built some mats up, go to your Engineer(s) and simply give them what you can from your current supplies. DONE!

When you've built up enough reputation you can spend it if you wish at what ever level of grades it gives you access to (G1->G5).


This to be honest would be what I'd want from The Engineers. A far more laid back and friendly mechanic, with no spreadsheets and far less needless contrived pointless faff pretending to be depth!