Engineering and Pre-Built Ships

[Paul_Crowther]

Greetings Commanders, 

We wanted to give you a heads up on our plans for Engineering coming later this year and share a first look at two of the Pre-Built ships that will be hitting the Gamestore in May. 

Read more: https://elitedangerous.com/news/engineering-and-pre-built-ships

 

[Rubbernuke]

Well that seems alright. Will be interested in seeing what is cut from the material requirements too.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Any word on what happens with ship insurance for this ARX purchased ships? (i.e. Player loses the ship with no credits to rebuy, they have lost something they purchased with real world money).

 

[Florenus]

With this approach to pre-built ships for real money shouldn't you be shutting down Elite and resurrecting Arena instead?
This, in my mind, completely undermines the concept of living, breathing galaxy. Sure, economy is a joke now anyway, but this way it becomes completely meaningless. People will buy fully equipped ship to go mining... for what purpose, if they can buy another ship for Arx?

I was always hoping Elite will take different direction. Instead of creating more engaging and complex gameplay for different roles you are doing everything to make it more casual and less engaging.

 

[Paul_Crowther]

Any word on what happens with ship insurance for this ARX purchased ships? (i.e. Player loses the ship with no credits to rebuy, they have lost something they purchased with real world money).

You can rebuy your pre-built ships for free every time. However if you modify the ship with credit purchased modules then you would need to rebuy that cost.

 

[CMDR X]

The T6 miner I'm OK with but the Chief with the Guardian weapons is a bit too much. Give it only AX Multicannons and Missles and it would balance. Guardian/Engineer/PP unlocks should not be bypass-able with real fake money. I know you're all gung-ho for Thargoids but I think sticking to basic ship purchaces would be wiser:

A rated Keelback for Combat+SLF
A rated T7 for Cargo
A rated DBS/X for Exploring
A rated Dolphin for Passangers

You get the picture. I would not like to see G5 PA/Rail Kraits for sale in the store.

Remember you said this:
"However, we will be listening to your feedback as we go about this process."

This is make-or-break territory you are wading into with these changes. Please get this one right.

 

[Lyamecron]

The proposed engineering changes sound good so far.

Just to give my 2 cents - if material traders had the functionality to sell materials from G1 to G5 according to...

cost = grade * factor * amount of Cr

...I believe the system would also be in a much better state (also combats inflation). Newer players would have easier access to low grade engineering mats and veterans could outfit new ships with G5 gear a lot faster - if they have the funds of course.

For the ship packages - they seem to be alright. They are not worthless and equally don't seem to be an instant win / maxxed out build.
Could you by any chance also tell us the pricing for one such package - it would be very interesting to know how you value those internally.

 

[DemiserofD]

I don't think the engineering changes will work. They will make it easier to maintain a full stockpile once you have it, but it won't do anything to solve the problem of new players getting to engineering and needing half a dozen things they've never even seen before.

There are some simple tweaks that could be made to ameliorate this problem. For Wake data, you should be able to fly through the wake, and get the data and a small credit payout, to encourage new players to do it. Wake scanners are power intensive, and waste a vital utility slot on smaller ships. They should not be a prerequisite for getting the data, just for seeing where the wake is going at range. Wakes should also have a minor visual effect, to catch the eye and attract curious players.

When it comes to manufactured materials, combat players leave behind more of them than they could ever possibly need. The problem is, it is very frustrating and unsatisfying to need to stop and deploy collector limpets, or manually scoop up, these materials, not to mention the loss of crucial optional slots. What we really need is a material-specific method of collection, such that a player can simply fly near a cloud of materials, open their cargo hatch, and reel them in in a matter of seconds. This, too, should give a small credit reward, to encourage new players to do it. Current methods are simply too slow and frustrating.

The problem with raw materials is that there is very little reason to just wander around on the surface of planets, unless you are deliberately hunting for materials. A solution for this problem would be a new type of mission, where players are dispatched to locate, scan, and destroy a crashed meteorite. Engineer bases in particular should offer these types of missions in abundance, with each different mission specifying what type of material the meteorite will contain. Players should not need to Google how to get raw materials, and then end up being directed to a crystal site 1,000 light years away.

These three changes alone will dramatically improve the starting player engineering experience, making it far more likely that when they reach the engineers base, they will not find themselves needing to acquire half a dozen or more different material types just to progress. Instead, they will already have a small Trove of materials with which to get started, making the acquisition of remaining materials far more palatable.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

No full G5 pre-engineering? What a disappointment, dead game, lazy developers /s. Now I've taken out my torch and pitchfork for no reason.

 

[Lyamecron]

I don't think the engineering changes will work. They will make it easier to maintain a full stockpile once you have it, but it won't do anything to solve the problem of new players getting to engineering and needing half a dozen things they've never even seen before.

There are some simple tweaks that could be made to ameliorate this problem. For Wake data, you should be able to fly through the wake, and get the data and a small credit payout, to encourage new players to do it. Wake scanners are power intensive, and waste a vital utility slot on smaller ships. They should not be a prerequisite for getting the data, just for seeing where the wake is going at range. Wakes should also have a minor visual effect, to catch the eye and attract curious players.

When it comes to manufactured materials, combat players leave behind more of them than they could ever possibly need. The problem is, it is very frustrating and unsatisfying to need to stop and deploy collector limpets, or manually scoop up, these materials, not to mention the loss of crucial optional slots. What we really need is a material-specific method of collection, such that a player can simply fly near a cloud of materials, open their cargo hatch, and reel them in in a matter of seconds. This, too, should give a small credit reward, to encourage new players to do it. Current methods are simply too slow and frustrating.

The problem with raw materials is that there is very little reason to just wander around on the surface of planets, unless you are deliberately hunting for materials. A solution for this problem would be a new type of mission, where players are dispatched to locate, scan, and destroy a crashed meteorite. Engineer bases in particular should offer these types of missions in abundance, with each different mission specifying what type of material the meteorite will contain. Players should not need to Google how to get raw materials, and then end up being directed to a crystal site 1,000 light years away.

These three changes alone will dramatically improve the starting player engineering experience, making it far more likely that when they reach the engineers base, they will not find themselves needing to acquire half a dozen or more different material types just to progress. Instead, they will already have a small Trove of materials with which to get started, making the acquisition of remaining materials far more palatable.

Fully agreed - collecting materials in a combat ship without hundreds of limpets is just not fun at all. If we had a small scale tractor-field module of some sort (not effecting containers or goods) to scoop all materials in a 500-1000m radius that would be amazing.

 

[Urbansparx]

My two pence:-
Early access to Python 2, Well it's a choice and at least it will help Frontier out financially.
Prebuilt ships, okay for helping new players, but don't add engineered modules or special weapons. That would short cut the game.
Engineering changes, sounds good to me.

 

[CMDR KCalo]

Been out of the forums for a while and just came back for a peek. Have to say it's a pleasant surprise to see an announcement yesterday and, rather than the typical crickets in the past, more information about that announcement a day later! Keep up the comms!

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

As a more serious note: The G5 drives fro the chief is a solid choice. An AX boat without engineered drives is borderline a deathtrap unless you have skills. Maybe G3 would have sufficed though, but who cares. Sounds like engineering willnbe toned down quite a bit, so tue "pay to win" advantage shrinks even more.

But hey all means, keep the outrage going. Now where is my popcorn...

 

[DemiserofD]

Fully agreed - collecting materials in a combat ship without hundreds of limpets is just not fun at all. If we had a small scale tractor-field module of some sort (not effecting containers or goods) to scoop all materials in a 500-1000m radius that would be amazing.

Exactly. We already have evidence of tractor beam type technology existing in the universe, with both Guardians and Thargoids using it, but if that is too unrealistic, even some sort of small grappling hook on a line would work just fine. Too small and lightweight to pull in full size canisters, but enough to pull in materials, which canonically are much lighter. Just open your cargo hatch, and it would automatically pull in all materials within a 500 or 1000M radius, like you say.

I don't think most people realize just how many materials they often leave behind, for lack of an effective way to gather them. Just ordinary bounty hunting can often see players leaving behind thousands or tens of thousands of units of materials.

That's what leads me to believe this clearly is not a numbers issue, but a convenience and function issue. And until that issue is addressed, this problem won't go away.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Very positive, much more should be done to enable all players to enjoy engineered modules & starting with pre-built ships is a great start.

I'm no new player, but do see the benefits to every player to be able to have the choice - so won't be shouting down such a positive move, quite the opposite.

Long-term ED players appear to be very averse to change, well, when it may take away their perceived superiorority... Maybe it is time to embrace change for the overall good of the game, even if it 'undermines' years of play?

 

[Kailoren]

Fully agreed - collecting materials in a combat ship without hundreds of limpets is just not fun at all. If we had a small scale tractor-field module of some sort (not effecting containers or goods) to scoop all materials in a 500-1000m radius that would be amazing.

That's why you don't collect materials in a combat ship, you build a ship designed to collect materials

 

[DemiserofD]

As far as the builds are concerned, I can't help but notice that the T6 lacks a detailed surface scanner. Those are necessary to see the hot spots in the Rings; if this is meant to be a functional pre-built, it definitely would need one of those.

Additionally, I can't help but notice that it does not have any way to do core mining, despite having a pulse wave scanner.

 

[Hekateh]

Why doesn't the T6 miner come with a detailed surface scanner to scan rings? Whats the point of the Pulse Wave Scanner on a laser miner?

 

[Flimley]

What would of been super good is for cmdrs to sell off their old unwanted pre engineered modules via fleet carriers.

this would be popular and add interest to the player based economy. Plus save many from the so called grind occasionally.

i am Flimley

 

[DemiserofD]

That's why you don't collect materials in a combat ship, you build a ship designed to collect materials

Unfortunately, engineering is predominantly an issue for newer players, the ones who lack the knowledge or resources to design effective builds with has specific a purpose as collecting materials. I myself nearly quit the game when I got to my first engineer and realized how much more I needed to do to even get started. It was only a few weeks later that by pure chance I happened to return.

Fundamentally, the question should be raised of why players should need to design a specific build just to collect materials. Materials are functionally a reward for doing different types of activity. It is an odd design choice to require players to take additional steps just to collect their reward. Especially steps so onerous, that many players neglect collecting the reward at all.

To a certain point, this can be blamed on the players, but when an issue becomes one of the predominant complaints of a game, it becomes time for developers to step in and improve the process.