Thanks @Stealthie and @Ethaidan for the quick response; I got worried I missed something. I have engineered 10 ships since that test and it would have sucked if I was doing it wrong.
Engineers and pinned BPs?
- Thread starter rdizz
- Start date
Of course, but then once you do the higher grade upgrades, all of that is replaced by the new grade. i.e. the lower grade rolls don't matter. Test it yourself, do one module your way all the way to G5, and one without going all the way on each grade (except G5, cap that) and compare the end result.
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DDastardly00
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Are you positive the lower grades don't matter? It seems to me the engineering system is built in a way so that each grade is built off the previous grade and has a stacking effect.
If I am wrong on this, then I have wasted a crap ton of mats over the last two months. Will have to test, again.
I was 99.5% sure, because I tested it myself the way I told you to, with several different modules, when I was brand new to the process. The fact that some forum regulars with more experience than I have now confirmed it has me at 99.99% sure.
When I first started engineering I read up a lot and saw conflicting information on this. I think that the old way of engineering before it was updated to be less random did work the way you indicate (I might be wrong about that though, as I wasn't here for that). That's why I tested it myself, I needed to be sure.
Of course you did, for that grade. But, as Jaggid has already mentioned, each low/mid-tier (G1-4) is over-written by the next grade. Take the FSD as an example: the maximum optimal mass multiplier you can get with G5 completely maxed is 55%, and this is available regardless of whether you bothered to fully max G4 to 45% - it is not an extra 10% added on to wherever you stopped at G4.
DDastardly00
D
Be thankful you weren't around for the old way, it sucked.
It was all randomized rolls and you had to say yes to the warning message that stated you would lose your updgrade before it would let you roll the dice again. So if you got a worse roll than your previous one, you couldn't go back.
On top of that, mats were a lot harder to get in those days.
It was all randomized rolls and you had to say yes to the warning message that stated you would lose your updgrade before it would let you roll the dice again. So if you got a worse roll than your previous one, you couldn't go back.
On top of that, mats were a lot harder to get in those days.
Ah, but it was so much more fun trying to figure out how the random secondaries might come into play, the tension waiting to see if the wheel of Fortune would grant you a free random special effect...
DDastardly00
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Lol, if only Vanna White would pop out and give you a prize, then it might have been worth it. I remember trying to get stuff like Thermal Cascade and finally succeeding once, trying to time the button press to get the special effect and failing 9/10. It was happy-joy moment when I actually got something worthy, or well, just anything at all really. I still have some of those legacy mods with effects on my AspX and Cobra MKIII.
Read some stuff on reddit about the rolls post 3.0, it does seem like you guys are right on that, man I hope so. I won't get back the mats but at least I'll know not to waste anymore of them before moving on to the next roll.
You're going to save so many materials now that you know.
I honestly think that most of the folks on the forums who complain loudly about the hassle of gathering materials for engineering are under the same misconception you were. Being quite new to the game, I didn't find it that bad at all. Unlocking the engineers on the other hand...that took quite some effort. Just finished that bit today with Lori Jameson.
DDastardly00
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Let's not get too crazy here, complaints are still warranted. One example is FD broke getting stuff like Improvised components. I spent an hour looking for HGE's and IC's again last night and came up empty handed. I tried Civil unrest and election systems with large populations too. All I'm getting is stuff like Proto Heat Radiators and Proto Light Alloys and I have plenty of both. You can trade some items for IC's, like focus crystals, but the list is short and the trade ratio is terrible.
It used to be you would travel to one of these, fly straight up from the orbital lines grid about 500ls into deep space, then slow down and start looking for HGE's. I could get 30 pharmaceutical Isolators in about 15 minutes on average, not anymore. Not sure why they broke something that didn't need to be fixed. You need Improvised Components for Grade 5 Reinforced Shields and you need Pharmaceutical Isolators for Grade 5 long range FSD.
Yah, I don't focus on worrying about the ratio of trade. If i have a ton of somethiing and need something else, I trade it. I mostly gather materials as I "do other stuff" and can't be bothered to worry about what the exchange rate is...I have what I have.
That's the other thing that I think people who think material gathering is a hassle are doing wrong...focusing too hard on getting what they need rather than what is easy. Who cares if the ratio is 6 to 1 if you can get 100 of that other thing in less than an hour?
That's the other thing that I think people who think material gathering is a hassle are doing wrong...focusing too hard on getting what they need rather than what is easy. Who cares if the ratio is 6 to 1 if you can get 100 of that other thing in less than an hour?
I am not sure fun is a term I associate with the old casino approach to engineering.
You can do two things...
1) Roll until the grade is about 75% maxed out...at which point you may progress to next grade, or...
2) keep rolling until you max out that grade before moving to next grade.
In my experience I find that if you do "1)" you may end up having to make extra rolls at the new grade.
Example: G5 can take anywhere between 7 and 11 or 12 rolls to complete
I find that maxing G4, G5 typically results in maxing out at < 10 rolls more often.
Moving from G4 to G5 when G4 = 75% maxed ALWAYS takes 10+ rolls to complete.
So from that perspective, moving up early wastes G4 or G5 materials.
Cheers
Clicker
1) Roll until the grade is about 75% maxed out...at which point you may progress to next grade, or...
2) keep rolling until you max out that grade before moving to next grade.
In my experience I find that if you do "1)" you may end up having to make extra rolls at the new grade.
Example: G5 can take anywhere between 7 and 11 or 12 rolls to complete
I find that maxing G4, G5 typically results in maxing out at < 10 rolls more often.
Moving from G4 to G5 when G4 = 75% maxed ALWAYS takes 10+ rolls to complete.
So from that perspective, moving up early wastes G4 or G5 materials.
Cheers
Clicker
I don't think tht's accurate @Clicker, just randomness messing with your head. It is pretty common in any game with RNG for the players to come up with all sorts of 'tricks' that aren't valid, simply because the human brain is hard-wired to find patterns, which means it tends to make you think a pattern is there even when it isn't.
@Jaggid Edje ... I do not disagree.
Rolling close to a thousand G5 rolls can mess with anyone's mind!
Rolling close to a thousand G5 rolls can mess with anyone's mind!
Trouble is, there's no way to know for sure, either way, unless you have access to an alternate universe where you can try making different decisions to see if things work out differently to how they did in this universe.
I mean, I've maxxed-out G4 mod's simply 'cos I've had heaps of G4 mat's and wanted to use the ship immediately and then, when I've applied a G5 mod, it's still taken 15 rolls to complete G5.
Equally, I've applied G4 mod's until I got access to G5 and then it's only taken 8 rolls to complete G5.
The only time I've really (possibly) noticed that it takes fewer rolls to complete G5 is with a converted legacy module.
I take a legacy G5 module to an engineer, they convert it to a new G4 module and it always seems to only take about 6 or 7 rolls to complete G5 again.
That might just be my imagination too but it always seems like it takes fewer rolls to upgrade a converted legacy module.
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DDastardly00
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Lol you don't understand RNG
RNG understands you.
......and doesn't want you to succeed
RNG understands you.
......and doesn't want you to succeed
DDastardly00
D
I definitely can't speak on the 'how many rolls does it take' question, and I have simply no idea how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop either. But what I did learn last night is that I wasted a ton of mats topping off engineered modules.
Through my testing, I was able to produce identical results with two 4A FSDs, both fully upgraded to Grade 4 extended FSD range, final result was 41.39ly each. The first FSD, I skipped topping off grades 2 and 3 while fully topping off grade 4 (to take the RNG element out of the equation). The ship used was a viper MKIV, which was newly purchased for this test. On the 2nd FSD, I topped off each grade to 100% including grade 4 and produce the exact same result 41.39
Through my testing, I was able to produce identical results with two 4A FSDs, both fully upgraded to Grade 4 extended FSD range, final result was 41.39ly each. The first FSD, I skipped topping off grades 2 and 3 while fully topping off grade 4 (to take the RNG element out of the equation). The ship used was a viper MKIV, which was newly purchased for this test. On the 2nd FSD, I topped off each grade to 100% including grade 4 and produce the exact same result 41.39