- Thread starter Surfinjo
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There was a similar situation in Ireland when the public voted no over an EU treaty that their government wanted (I don't think it was actual EU membership).
Democracy is deeply flawed, the worst part of it is that elected governments never think beyond their own term in office. Why do something that will benefit the opposition party 5 years down the line. This leads to short term thinking and a total lack of long term planning for public services and infrastructure. Democracy is better than the alternatives though.
Have to agree. That second vote in Ireland was a joke which few there seemed to get. We've had similar situations here of course. The two General Elections of 1974. The current vote on EU membership.
The problem with democracy is no-one is really that interested.
Many don't bother to vote.
Few, it seems really know about a party's policies.
There is a maxum in government that the first year is for the bad stuff. Basically, we seem to make up our minds on what has happened recently. And a good scandal, while frequently irrelevant, can make all the difference, even to an otherwise popular MP. Check out what happened to Mike Hancock CBE for example.
Wee bit off topic but I recall a constitutional proposal, some years ago, that MPs would stand for election is staggered groups.
So, if there were, say 500 MPs then each year a group of 100 would stand for re-election. The seats would be scattered throughout the country of course.
It was specifically designed for the problems you describe. More importantly, the deliberate sabotage which Wilson imposed in the late 60s, and tried again in the 70s.
Not really. Each yearly election would only involve 1/5 of the total MPs, spread out throughout the country.
But more importantly, it would force MPs and governments to be continually working toward what the electorate want.
But as I said, off topic, it was just a proposal and in any case, no chance of it ever being implemented. I cited it as an example.
The problem I have every time I listen to Farrage is, what he says about the EU can be just as easily said about him/UKIP/leaving the EU
Granted, there are are no guarantees in the EU. But there aren't any outside either!
Granted the EU goes back on its word, I wonder where they learnt that trick from?
His entire argument is based upon his claim that we would be better off outside the EU but he never provides any evidence.
His claims about migrant benefits is a red herring. Most migrants want to work so they can send money back to their families. That's why they come.
A truly hilarious contribution. 30 yeas of US sponsored IRA terrorism aside
: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35624409Staying in EU 'exposes UK to terror risk', says Iain Duncan Smith
A truly hilarious contribution. 30 yeas of US sponsored IRA terrorism aside
Staying in EU 'exposes UK to terror risk', says Iain Duncan Smith
They say every cloud has a silver lining, and you have to look hard to see the silver lining of 911. The price the Americans paid to learn what terrorism truly is was horrific, but it ended American IRA support overnight.
Yep.
But more notable was that for so long, so many Americans were taken in.
It just goes to show the cost that any of us can pay for ignorance.
I particularly recall this because shortly after I went to the causality of my local hospital in S England after a minor workplace accident. I had, until a few year earlier, lived for almost 20 year in Scotland so I still had a Scots accent. Several other waiting patients asked me to leave.
Fortunately a nurse ushered me through to avoid further problems.
But I digress.
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Boris Johnson, the mayor of London, announces that he is going to campaign for Brexit : "You should not confuse the marvels of Europe, holidays in Europe, the fantastic food and friendships etc. with a political project which is underway for decades and threatens now to escape the democratic control"
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He's a smart man, despite appearances maybe. Mr Johnson, saying the EU is a political project "in danger of getting out of proper democratic control" rings true but not because of voting, as it's not as simple as that. He said the ability for Britain to govern itself is being eroded notably by .. too much activism from the EU Judiciary .. and I have to say I agree with him. For me, not only do I rarely hear anything at all about the dealings of the EU Legislature, I've no idea who the Executive in the EU is either and I'd rather see the EU as a group of nations with a common history and shared ideals on a looser arrangement, than a single oversized state. A UK vote for Out, I hope will bring a very fundamental reform for what we used to call the Common Market. A level of diversity is I believe a good thing ...
[video=youtube;mmtQwtcaqLM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtQwtcaqLM[/video]
Personally as french, I am demoralized by the technocrats of Brussels. It's a machine, cold and soulless. This machine kills the national sovereignties. And gag the unsatisfied people, because for the national governments, it is easy to say "it's the fault of Europe ..." and escape to the responsibility
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I agree we don't need to get out of the EU, we need more transparency and accountability and less knee-jerk Europe blaming by the press and politicians.
It is interesting that the press and Tories are complaining that he was dithering and making them wait for his view. I understand, that he was waiting to read, exactly, what Dave; had agreed too. Also Dave has mumbled that basically, a NO vote, would not mean a definite exit.
I get the impression that the press has been trying to humiliate Johnson for quite some time. Remember that incident where he was stuck in a chair lift? Any other politician would have been wiping the egg off their faces for months afterwards. But Johnson managed to turn that and just about any other incident into something positive.
I am still utterly impressed at how he managed to throw a ball into a basket and to do so so casually.
The guy has more talent that a dozen actors. It's just such a shame his politics are so utterly bad. If he were a left winger or even anti-war, I think the establishment would be worried and I might even consider moving to London just to vote for him.
Boris Johnson is a very, very clever man with a harmless bumbling public persona. Whenever he needs to raise his public profile he appears on popular programs like Have I got news for you, which makes him appear as a funny guy and a man of the people. This raises his support across the board because his politics (which are largely unknown) don't enter into the equation just his comedy ability and crazy antics. But he's there to gain from that appearance, which is why he doesn't risk it mid-term.
Off topic, he's right about the best solution for airport space being an island in the Thames, it's not hard from a engineering standpoint and it would alleviate pressure on the two large London airports. This is an important thing to do as having two of the busiest airports (and their approach lanes) in the world with no spare capacity inside one of the most densely populated cities in the world is a disaster waiting to happen.
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We especially need more national sovereignty and less federalism. I much prefer a Europe of nations to a federal Europe
True we need a system of trade, border and defense treaties. The EU parliament itself is unnecessary.
I recall, back in 75, there were arguments over the plans for the development of the EU.
The management of the EU was said to be in the hands of an appointed commission but gradually these powers would be handed over to the EU Parliament.
The EU parliament in particular was being viewed with suspicion because many opposed thought that it would never be content with simply being a talking shop and demand more and more power.
It's kinda ironic that the EU Parliament has settled quite nicely into its talking shop role, costing billions in the process while the commission has morphed into the monster it is today issuing edicts such as banning bent bananas, cutting down the trees outside Hindhead and telling school children they can't wear black shoes.
http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm
The management of the EU was said to be in the hands of an appointed commission but gradually these powers would be handed over to the EU Parliament.
The EU parliament in particular was being viewed with suspicion because many opposed thought that it would never be content with simply being a talking shop and demand more and more power.
It's kinda ironic that the EU Parliament has settled quite nicely into its talking shop role, costing billions in the process while the commission has morphed into the monster it is today issuing edicts such as banning bent bananas, cutting down the trees outside Hindhead and telling school children they can't wear black shoes.
http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm