Why would a Eurasian pack need to do that? I think the Iberian lynx would be fine in a Eurasia pack but might be even better in an endangered species pack. The alpine ibex I would certainly include. As well as the red deer, probably the European badger, and many more possibilities…. IMO one of the advantages of the Eurasian pack is that it makes a second Oceania pack (which I know you’re in favour of) more likely… otherwise a “not-south Eastern Asia” pack would be needed somewhere, since it’s still be a region(s) not covered by DLC (or much in the base game).
Eurasia VS Europe VS Asia DLC
- Thread starter Jeminyne
- Start date
Yes i know, but what im saying is, that you could delete all connections to europe by just changing two animals to another species, leaving this dlc with just one "european" animal, in form of the lynx. What im stating is that i would simply not be happy if that was it for europe.
There was already some discussion about the topic in other threads, but honestly the only two must haves for europe are the red or fallow deer and a lynx. I do like animals like the ibex and wolverine, but both arnt very common in smaller european zoos, that atleast i want to recreate with a european pack.
Some normal and common representation would be the eurasian lynx, red deer, fallow deer, mouflon, wild boar, red fox, european wildcat, european polecat/ferrets (there are quite alot who have either domestic ferrets in the wild coat or hybrids, because they are easier to take care of and to aquire) and raccoons (which would obviously not come in this pack, but they are everywhere).
Atleast one of these animals is a part of almost all european zoos and collections, with many just focusing on them and other native animals or just simply being smaller more budget zoos, a fact also clearly represented by the top 100 holding List on Zootierliste.
The proposed eurasian pack has simply none of that, choosing one of the least common zoo animals over one of the 100 most common animals in zoos in case of the lynx, sikadeer, whilst common and welcome addition elsewhere just are not in any way shape or form on the same level as either the fallow deer, one of the most commonly held animals on the planet or the red deer, which is arguably the most impressive and iconic deer species, atleast as far as eurasia goes, but hoenstly, that would be fine, if the pack would actually do something with it.
I am not apposed to a pack that beefs up a europe pack with some popular northern asian animals to boost sales or something, but this pack just doesnt.
Instead the asian animals are a deer that should have been european, a crane that could have been a stork, a walrus, for some reason and the exhibit animal, that doesnt matter anyways.
So we skip europe for one dlc and make it eurasian instead, to include some fanfavorites, just so we dont. And thats where my propblem with this dlc is.
I would not have a problem with it, if we got the reddeer instead of the sika deer and skiped the walrus and maybe the porcupine for the amur leopard and the prezwalski horse or something. Would be a nice 2 european, 2 mixed and 4 asian animals, which i wouldnt be the biggest fan of, because asia honestly doesnt need more unique animals and would also profit from the european animals, that mostly branch out into asia, something we are often reminded of, but it would be fine. I would get the reasoning.
But that pack just ruins a perfectly fine european pack, gives us 2 niche to uncommon animals and 1 almost none existant animal in captivity, and then makes animals that could and should be european into asian animals, without actually putting in asian fan favorites.
Maybe im a bit more passionate about this, as propaply noticable in my rant, but i hope this makes it understandable, while i think that eurasian pack sucks at actually giving us european representation and wastes the slot to animals, that have no buisness being there in place of their either european/more common counterparts or are just a why in the first place.
If the main argument for the gator was that its common in zoos in america, then the same argument should apply to european animals in european zoos too, and i see no animal in this pack that makes even a hundred holdings in the EAZA, something the 8 (9 if you want to count the racoon) easily do and by far exceed.
Yeah, I agree that the pack proposed isn’t what I would go with, but I still think a Eurasia DLC animal pack would likely be better (and quite possibly have more European species) than two standard packs: one for Europe and one for the remaining bits of Asia (excluding SE Asia).
I really hate the idea of a Eurasia pack... every other continent got their own pack, why does Europe have to share theirs; to reserve spots for animals not found in Europe? Especially with a continent that not only got a full animal pack, but one dedicated entirely to it--not a single animal in the SE Asia pack is found outside Asia. And I'm saying this as an American; it just doesn't sound fair to shaft Europe just so we can sneak in a few more Asian exclusives.
Not a huge fan of an India pack either; why do we need a pack based on a single country? You're gonna start a very ugly precedence with that one... at least make it South Asia pack or something.
Also, if the Meta-List is anything to go by--and the last two packs suggest it is--then any pack would look quite different...
Not a huge fan of an India pack either; why do we need a pack based on a single country? You're gonna start a very ugly precedence with that one... at least make it South Asia pack or something.
Also, if the Meta-List is anything to go by--and the last two packs suggest it is--then any pack would look quite different...
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We’ll my argument is twofold:
1) A Eurasia animal pack would result in MORE European animals than a standard European pack. Indeed, there is no need for a Eurasia pack to necessarily have any species not found in Europe (although personally I’d probably include 1 or 2 of a 7-animal pack - leaving 5-6 species found in Europe.).
2) Asia hasn’t had a dlc - South East Asia has. Much of Asia (specifically the Middle East) has less representation than any other region (including Europe) as a bonus, many species found in the Middle East are also found in Europe.
3) ‘any pack based on Europe or Asia would look quite different’? Why? Almost all European animals are found in Asia too.
4) if we don’t combine Europe and west/south/central Asia into one pack it then they’ll have to be separated as 2. Given a limited lifespan this reduces the chance for other needed packs.
I get that, but i would rather have a few well devolped areas then many with under 4 animals. Thats why i would also like an indian dlc, so that that region feels more complete, as its still missing some keyanimals/niches like ungulates.
Also it helps to lenghten the lifecycle of the game, if they leave room for more dlcs in the future.
Id rather get less popular specied then cramming them all into a few pack out of fear to have them not in the game.
What isnt in the game can still headline a new pack, so id rather have only a few high requested animal per pack, instead of having mostly them, as the "filler" species are really what we need the most right now.
Afterall no leopard, maned wolf or tasmanian devil can save the game, but ever they will bring with them can, using the examples they can open up the doors for more african, arabian, indian or northern asia animals depending on the leopard, not tropical south american animals like the rhea and the mara or all the critters of oceania.
Thats why i Personally dont want anymore high profile animals then we need for a pack, not to use uncommon or "bad" fits for the game, but animals that wouldnt sell a pack on their own, like the wildboar for europe.
1) And a Europe-only animal pack would result in MORE European animals than a Eurasia Pack... and why call it a Eurasia Pack if Asia isn't swiping spots from Europe? Isn't that the point of calling it a Eurasia pack? Wouldn't a pack with animals found in Europe be a Europe pack?
2) It may be for a specific part of Asia, but that's still an Asian specific pack, with Asian specific animals... which is still more than what Europe has.
3) Did you miss the part where I mentioned the Meta-List?
4) All that I'm here from this is we need to screw over one necessary pack for another... that doesn't really make things any more fair, does it? In the case for Europe, it would be even less fair, since unlike the other continents, it doesn't have a pack with its name on it.
No because most animals found in Europe are also found in Asia. Therefore, most of the animals in the pack would have a Eurasian distribution.
Yes, but the rest of Asia has less representation than even Europe. unlike Europe, SEA constitutes a distinct zoological zone (realm).
Go through the meta list, excluding SEA animals and you’ll find that almost all the animals from Europe are also found in Asia. The exceptions being the Iberian lynx and the alpine ibex. Either or both could still go in a Eurasia pack.
I really don’t get this as an argument. You’d really prefer a fewer European animals (given that, IMO, a Europe-only animal pack is unlikely) just so there was a pack with the name Europe on it? IMO that isn’t screwing over Europe at all. Noting that, unlike all the other continents, Europe doesn’t constitute a distinct zoological zone (whereas SEA does).
Both sides of the argument are valid, it just comes down to taste, honestly
See, this just sounds like we're scrapping over details now. I mean, previous packs had animals that spread well beyond the continent they were named after, but they weren't named, say, Northern Hemisphere Pack or something like that... it was North America Pack... the South America and Australia pack also animals found outside that particular area. Of course European animals have a habit of spilling into Asia, it can't be helped... the point is that the big thing that unites them all is that they are found in Europe... and in some cases no where else.
I somewhat agree. One important difference is that many of the proposed animals for a Europe pack have broader distribution outside Europe than within it, which isn’t true of animals in other packs (with 1 or 2 possible exceptions, though I’m not sure about even them).
my concern (one of them) is that, just as (some) people from Europe complain about deserving a pack just for themselves, people from west and Central Asia will (and should) make the same argument. If that happens and (for argument’s case) there are only 5 packs left, then we will certainly miss many key animals from other regions, and/or aviaries since there would only be 3 more packs remaining.
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We're gonna miss key animals no matter what we get... that's likely an inevitability... unless they do something really unexpected, like a genuine expansion pack with more than eight animals. The best we can hope for is that Frontier makes choices that seem informed and fair... that's why a lot of people want a Europe Pack; the Meta List says the options are fairly popular and it's currently the only continent not to get pack named after it. Sure it has more animals than certain regions, but then the majority of base game animals came from Asia, Africa and North America... and they all got packs... so that doesn't seem to bother Frontier too much. Ultimately, we'll get what we get... and I doubt it'll cover everything, so we're just gonna have to live with it...
Also, the point I was trying to make about the Meta List is how the suggestions made in the opening post don't match what the Meta List indicates what we'd likely get... for example, the Eurasia pack features the Iberian Lynx and the Sika Deer... yet compare them to similar options; the Eurasian Lynx has the Iberian beat 6 to 32 and the Red Deer has the Sika beat 18 to 138... and those aren't the only ones... why look at that India Pack; I count maybe six animals in the top 50 that would qualify and the OP list features only one of them. Based on the last two packs, Frontier will favor options that are more popular...
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Yeah, I’m not talking about the OP’s packs, I’m talking about a Eurasia pack vs. a Europe pack as alternative concepts - fill in the animals according to personal preference. The meta list isn’t everything - the devs probably have a pretty good idea of what packs they’re likely to release without it, though it might make some impact around the edges. Any Europe-only species would for just as well in a Eurasia pack as in a Europe pack but, even then, there actually aren’t all that many (proportionally) European animals in the meta list anyway and hardly any that don’t have a Eurasian distribution. Obviously we’re going to miss some species no matter what happens, but we’ll miss more if there are 2 packs taken up with Eurasia than if there’s one…. More: I am not saying I think this is what Frontier will actually do (I think a Europe pack and a middle east pack will likely be 2 of the next five packs). I am saying that I think a better way of doing it would be to combine them into a single Eurasia pack. I think it can makes more sense from a geobiological POV AND a gameplay POV. I don’t see why having a pack named after each continent is such a big deal… isn’t the animal roster we get more important?
This.
The only time they look for community help is when devs are tied between animal selection.
Frontier have clear plans what they want to include in game.
Except maybe for Iberian Lynx all of the most wanted and distinct European species are found all over Asia and Middle East.
Alpine ibex is visually just to similar to all the ibexes found in Asia to make it staple European species for me. Same with red fox, badger or red deer.
It definitely won’t be an easy task for Frontier how to solve that. I personally would be happier with Eurasian or Temperate pack where we can also use some Australian fauna for example.
Alpine ibex is visually just to similar to all the ibexes found in Asia to make it staple European species for me. Same with red fox, badger or red deer.
It definitely won’t be an easy task for Frontier how to solve that. I personally would be happier with Eurasian or Temperate pack where we can also use some Australian fauna for example.
Another reason why I want separate packs for Asia and Europe changes the focus from the European side to the Asian side: there are still many popular Asian animals missing in the game, so if the Eurasian pack has to include animals from Europe, then we will miss these Asian animals.
Examples of popular animals from Asia:
-Leopard
-Przewalski horse
-Lar gibbon
-Asian small clawed otter
-Walrus
-Takin
-Markhor
-Blackbuck
-Raccoon dog
-Dromedary
-Arabian oryx
And several exhibits like cobras and pythons
So I prefer a pack for Europe, a pack for the remaining Asian animals and then other biome packs to complete the roster of all continents.
Examples of popular animals from Asia:
-Leopard
-Przewalski horse
-Lar gibbon
-Asian small clawed otter
-Walrus
-Takin
-Markhor
-Blackbuck
-Raccoon dog
-Dromedary
-Arabian oryx
And several exhibits like cobras and pythons
So I prefer a pack for Europe, a pack for the remaining Asian animals and then other biome packs to complete the roster of all continents.
@ElectricMonk I've been meaning to ask: what animals do you think of when you think of Europe? What animals represent Europe to you?
good question. For a Europe only 4+1 pack I’d probably go with (keeping the Iberian lynx aside for an endangered species pack down the line) with something like:
Red or fallow deer
European badger
Alpine ibex
European otter (assuming we’re unlikely to get the short-claw since SEA has been done)
Fire salamander
If it’s a Eurasia animal pack (I think the alternatives are a 4+1 Europe pack or a 7+1 Eurasia pack) I’d have the same but add (keeping Przewalski's horse for the afore-mentioned Endangered species pack):
Wild boar
Persian leopard
And one of:
Pine marten
Red fox
Dromedary
If i had to make animalpacks for europe/eurasia i think i went with:
I think this pack allready is quite solid, but if its an eurasian pack, i would change the last 3 to the wild boar and wolverine, because of their greater range and add the amurleopard or prezwalski horse, leaving one as a possible headliner for a northern/central asia pack.
Some other good candidates would be the racoondog, red crowned crane, siberian musk deer, water buffalo, mute swan, european wildcat or roedeer, but all of these either feel to similar to another animal already in the pack or would work better in a seperate pack, for example the racoondog, red crowned crane, sika deer, japanese serrow and japanese giant salamander would make for quite the nice little pack, expanding on the east asia theme from the base game
- eurasian lynx (Iberian Lynx is very overrated, i would guess in part because of nostalgia, but i would rather have the animal that spreads through all of northern asia and europe, instead of the one thats only found in spain and 7 zoos, compared to the over 128 of the eurasian luchs. We also need more temperate, taiga and tundra animals instead of grassland)
- red deer (most culturally important european animal, the royality of the woods and very common in zoos. + a very normal but still impressive deer)
- red fox (would nicly round out the foxes, good temperate small animal, giant range and super flexible)
- alpine ibex (caprid, iconic for the european alps, opens up the possibility for very unique enclosures around verticallity)
- alpine marmot (goes well with the ibex, rodent, flexes well into small habitats, alpine animals are lacking in the game right now)
- wild boar or wisent (european bison) (in an animal pack a third ungulate is a must and both of them are a great option, with the wisent being the cheaper and the wildboar the more versatile option)
- european polecat, river otter, wolverine, mink or a marten (one mustelid is a must and europe has quite a few great option, with all of them being viable)
I think this pack allready is quite solid, but if its an eurasian pack, i would change the last 3 to the wild boar and wolverine, because of their greater range and add the amurleopard or prezwalski horse, leaving one as a possible headliner for a northern/central asia pack.
Some other good candidates would be the racoondog, red crowned crane, siberian musk deer, water buffalo, mute swan, european wildcat or roedeer, but all of these either feel to similar to another animal already in the pack or would work better in a seperate pack, for example the racoondog, red crowned crane, sika deer, japanese serrow and japanese giant salamander would make for quite the nice little pack, expanding on the east asia theme from the base game