Eve IS Elite!

[aRtFuL]

EVE is EVE. Elite is Elite.

The reason why Elite feels like the "spiritual ancestor" of EVE or any other space games it is because it IS the ancestor of the genre. All space sim/space trading games since has taken elements from it's concept.

Elite basically invented the genre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_flight_simulator_game

You can basically say every space games "feels" like Elite one way or another (Freelancer, Privateer, Space Rogue, X series, etc, etc), this is because virtually ALL those developers says they were inspired to make the game that that made because they played Elite.

 

[Corwyn]

EVE is EVE. Elite is Elite.

The reason why Elite feels like the "spiritual ancestor" of EVE or any other space games it is because it IS the ancestor of the genre. All space sim/space trading games since has taken elements from it's concept.

Elite basically invented the genre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_flight_simulator_game

You can basically say every space games "feels" like Elite one way or another (Freelancer, Privateer, Space Rogue, X series, etc, etc), this is because virtually ALL those developers says they were inspired to make the game that that made because they played Elite.

Quite correct on all counts.

I think this subject has well and truly run it's course.

Mods, please close this thread, the horse is well and truly deal, let it rest in peace already.

 

[Asyliam]

EVE is holy. Elite Dangerous must become more like EVE. It will be amazing then!

No, just no.

 

[n13L5]

supercruise and hyperjumps are b u l l s h i t, makete it seamless, just forget about einstein and everything will work in time! and why not fighting at multiple speeds of light? it will be fun dodging each others shots while getting closer to a star!

I agree with you on hyper jumps and supercruise, but your wish will not happen, because super cruise and hyper jumps are smoke and mirrors devices to allow the game to work. Because no engine can render the vast space at sufficient precision and in real-time, all space is instanced. Whenever you drop out of supercruise by any of the available means (interdiction, getting too close to a planet, exiting at a station or nav point or uss) a new instance is created for you, unless another player is already at that station, in which case you enter the existing instance. All player activity happens in these instances. You cannot travel anywhere on thrusters, even if you left the game running for a year. As soon as the last player that was present at, say, Freeport leaves into super cruise or hyperjump, the instance collapses and a new one is created when another player shows up there. Without the devices of super cruise, hyper jumps and instances, ED couldn't even render the solar system in a believable way. All systems would have to be about as small as systems are in the X series of space sims. Would be nice if at least hyper jumps didn't look like spooky space. Someone called it witch space, my 4 year old daughter calls it "molded french fries and dirty ketchup flying".

 

[n13L5]

supercruise and hyperjumps are b u l l s h i t, makete it seamless, just forget about einstein and everything will work in time! and why not fighting at multiple speeds of light? it will be fun dodging each others shots while getting closer to a star!

I agree with you on disliking hyper jumps and supercruise, but your wish will not happen, because super cruise and hyper jumps are smoke and mirrors devices to allow the game to work.

Because no engine can render the vast space at sufficient precision and in real-time, all space is instanced. Whenever you drop out of supercruise by any of the available means (interdiction, getting too close to a planet, exiting at a station or nav point or uss) a new instance is created for you, unless another player is already at that station, in which case you enter the existing instance. All player activity happens in these instances. You cannot travel anywhere on thrusters, even if you left the game running for a year. As soon as the last player that was present at, say, Freeport leaves into super cruise or hyperjump, the instance collapses and a new one is created when another player shows up there.

Without the devices of super cruise, hyper jumps and instances, ED couldn't even render the solar system in a believable way. All systems would have to be about as small as systems are in the X series of space sims. Would be nice if at least hyper jumps didn't look like spooky space though. Someone called it witch space, my 4 year old daughter calls it "molded french fries and dirty ketchup flying".

 

[n13L5]

EVE is holy. Elite Dangerous must become more like EVE. It will be amazing then!

you mean full of twisted, backstabbing, spiteful people at the highest levels, where integrity and honor are bad words to sneer at? Where the biggest scam and most damaging subterfuge earns the biggest applause?

 

[gurugeorge]

i hope ed will not become eve especaily for combat, cause iam so unlucky at the dices ...

supercruise and hyperjumps are b u l l s h i t, makete it seamless, just forget about einstein and evrything will work in time! and why not fighting at multiple speeds of light? it will be fun dodging each others shots while getting closer to a star!

I think you're seriously underestimating the amount of processing power your brain would need to have to figure out what's happening, it would be several orders of magnitude more difficult than "dogfights in space", even supposing "magic sensors".

All these space games are hokum, like people in the 15th century imagining jousting with balloons or something. The reality of space combat would be so complicated, and so fast (since "speed tanking" would be king, and would be where the "arms race" would be), that battles would be days, hours of positioning, then joined battles decided in microseconds, dependent on complex maths (probability projections) done incredibly fast. In reality it could only be done by either AIs or really souped-up superhumans (cyborgs, or otherwise modified).

Also, all combat spaceships would be boringly spherical with any fleshy bits safely tucked away in the centre of equidistantly thick armor, it would be absurd to have it any other way.

 

[RadBlaster]

I think you're seriously underestimating the amount of processing power your brain would need to have to figure out what's happening, it would be several orders of magnitude more difficult than "dogfights in space", even supposing "magic sensors".

All these space games are hokum, like people in the 15th century imagining jousting with balloons or something. The reality of space combat would be so complicated, and so fast (since "speed tanking" would be king, and would be where the "arms race" would be), that battles would be days, hours of positioning, then joined battles decided in microseconds, dependent on complex maths (probability projections) done incredibly fast. In reality it could only be done by either AIs or really souped-up superhumans (cyborgs, or otherwise modified).

Also, all combat spaceships would be boringly spherical with any fleshy bits safely tucked away in the centre of equidistantly thick armor, it would be absurd to have it any other way.

Totally agree ... bring to mind the Adamist style of ships and combat that Peter F. Hamilton written in the The Night's Dawn Trilogy.

 

[Lestat]

I think this topic should be move to off topic. Because I don't think it really helping anyone out. Other then trying to point out flaw of each game.

 

[gurugeorge]

Totally agree ... bring to mind the Adamist style of ships and combat that Peter F. Hamilton written in the The Night's Dawn Trilogy.

Yeah that's what I was thinking of. He's one of the few s-f writers who's thought space combat through to a seriously realistic degree IMHO. Drone clouds and positioning with quickly-decided battles (with the outcome having already been decided by whoever did the maths better before the battle is actually joined) is probably how it would be.

It can be written about spectacularly, but it would probably be quite "boring" in a game sense

 

[Marsman]

Eve has taken more from Elite than the other way around, since Elite came first, that's where it ends.

that´s not true, everyone knows Elite took every principle from the Traveller Pen an Paper series, also Star Trader was first which had the same principle. Elite just added a randomized galaxy, so if anything Eve is based on Traveller. They should give them credit already they even took the Jameson name from there which is more than obvious inspiration. I played it, the P&P series is still available

 

[Crumplecorn]

They share some fundamental principles, but EVE went in a totally different direction with them.

 

[Alice Margatroid]

personaly I dont care for eve becuase it is just letting the computer do everything for me.

that said, some elements from eve could help ed imrpoved a bit, in fact the securty system is one such example of soemthign thats very eve like that ed has.
as far as basic social elements go, I do agree that they could be added, and from what I heard, they would be added soon.
however, there are a few things from eve that do not work in the context of ed.
player manufacturing, we are pilots, not indrustrial engineers, so why in the world would we be trying to build our own factorys. its not part of our profession, if they ever did want to implement it It would be through contracting out to other factions to build, and run the outpost as they would have the skills and capablitys to do such a project. to give an example of what might work.
you or your group gains a lot of rep with a industrial faction, you could request them to build x amout of a valuable good and they would make sure that supply would be avaible for you in a day or two. then you could buy it from them at the current price they set before making them. or if you want to, you could contract them to build you a manufacturing outpost somewhere, but you would need to cover all the cost and they would still me responsable for all management of said outpost. they might even take it back if you break relations with them.
but that would the extent of player influanced construction though.

but again, I might be wrong, but I do feel that in elite, your a pilot, and as such you should not be doing anything that is not related to piloting. and thats one thing that I feel makes ed much diffrent then eve, and why I feel that players should never be allowed to do things that take them out of the role of "pilot"

 

[Zoky]

I'm amazed how many people here thing that EvE community is toxic. You guys must be former goons or something I live in venal (in that set of systems you have to cross to get to drone region or further north to tenal and goon home) for years now in small corp and i haven't encountered any toxic behavior so far (if u don't count jita scams but then it's your own fault). I even "acquired" some real life friends that way. In fact i would say its other way around. Some part of ED community don't want anything good from other games because...reasons and they all like lalalalala when u try to reason with them. That's childish.

 

[gurugeorge]

that´s not true, everyone knows Elite took every principle from the Traveller Pen an Paper series, also Star Trader was first which had the same principle. Elite just added a randomized galaxy, so if anything Eve is based on Traveller. They should give them credit already they even took the Jameson name from there which is more than obvious inspiration. I played it, the P&P series is still available

It's probably best to keep it within computer games though when discussing "who's first" - you could play the pushing-back-the-origins game forever, since there's nothing new under the sun. But Elite was the first game to buck the trend of videogames to be short session games, with a few "lives". It introduced the concept of a persistent(ish) virtual world to videogames, it introduced the sense that you can "live" in a game world.

 

[handgas]

OP was talking about Eve being Elite, in case you missed the point.

So not as irreverent as your reply.

The discussion changed, you clearly did not read.

 

[A300]

Elite Dangerous has a thirty year pedigree and ELITE a long list of firsts. Everything else is a mute point.

 

[gurugeorge]

Elite Dangerous has a thirty year pedigree and ELITE a long list of firsts. Everything else is a mute point.

"Moot". words words words