Experimental's that may replace Chaff.

Right yes, I've had more luck with rails for smaller ships than PA's but its still pretty tricky to get the timing on em, easy with focused PA's though, that faster shot makes a hell of a lot of difference, when swatting mosquitos!

Ah, frag cannons, I've not tried those yet either, I'm guessing a larger damage radius that is enough to get the small ships, and good for damaging the big ones, if your up close and get the with the entire content of the volley.

I'm concerned by the lower maneuverability of the mk ii, but that said I've not yet really tried it, and my current use of the phantoms extra maneuverability is really limited by my access to the pips. I'm thinking of growing another thumb, to resolve this issue!

I'm intrigued to learn about how a krait matches up with an FDL, I am very aware of how one type of craft can take advantage over the entire field, given engineering and environment constraints. But I can not not see those extra pips for maneuverability of the FDL in the ship management section, I kind of wonder just how close the krait phantom with G5 dirty drag drives, or other, gets to the maneuverability of the FDL, or to that extra blue level in the maneuverability scale in that ships spec section.
In terms of agility or acceleration the kraits are nowhere near the fdl. Pilots have made very precise measurements about most ships, measurements that correspond to characteristics not stated in the game's pitch/yaw/roll triplet or maneuverability. You will have to fly each ship.

For example the fdl seems to fly well both in faon and faoff but that's less true for the kraits or viper mk4. In fact the viper mk4 is so agile in faoff during boost that there should be a new set of measures for it.

fdl is very agile to begin with, but during boost it is something else entirely.

You should search the forums, there have been long and in depth discussions on this subject. With the changes to engineering mats you should have no problem experimenting with many setups and figure out what's best for you. This is a great time ! There are various pvp, ax, racer groups on discord with incredibly knowledgeable pilots who will mentor you (like Newton's Gambit).

Good luck !
 
Thank you!

The FDL and viper are really starting to sound tempting!

... Man, these weapons with thermal conduit on them are insane! I see what you mean about getting in and getting the job done before gamble weapons are any issue at all, I'm going to need a bigger AFM unit though, if I want to stay out for any length of time!
 
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What are c1 c2? I've been using cannons on my 2 large hard points on the phantom, and have loved those, I've found those to be a great lead into using both plasma, and also pips. I found with the cannons, once the shields were stripped, I could just put full pips to shields, two to engines and then just finish the job with the cannons, as the power draw is so low; It was the first time that I really took note of them, the pips. Short range cannons with auto load was what I was using from memory. Then again, beam lasers for the shields, overcharged was great as it really brought a chill to the ship for shield cell release. I'm now in a bit of a conundrum as to heat management, scratching my head and pondering thermal conduit. :D

Ah prismatics, I've not used those at all yet, I have done a stint with 5A shields and and a 6A cell bank, but returned to bi-weave for in game play, as I tend to be able to fly in a way by which the shields return faster than they leave, against a single engineered vulture at least. And pretty much against anything that hazardous mining sites throw at you.

The mk ii does look as though the extra 6 slot would some considerable difference to the shied use options, as would prismatics when I get to those.

I'm sure that all this is very different in PvP though.
My apologizes: The c1 and c2 was my personal short-hand abbreviation for small and medium since the ship's hardpoints are rated as 1s for small, 2s for medium, and 3s for larges. And c for 'component' or 'module' or 'hardpoint' but mostly my short hand for ship's component.
 
Ah ok, so you are using c1, presumably not on your krait though, as chaff by popping this mod on them. Right that is a thought for future use, depending on the build. I only used the size 3 cannons, specifically for punching thought FDL hulls like paper bags!

I'm not sure that I'm done with them yet either, I really want to see what the explosive shells are like, seems as though it might be similar to the splash effect from the plasma.
Oh the splash effect on these with the thermal conduit is awesome, just leaves them dead in the water, spinning in space. And the colour when the weapons are hot just encourages you even more, despite having a dashboard so hot that you could fry an egg upon it!
 
I'm back in a build that I feel comfy in and am really happy with all the changes, wanted to thank you for your input in here.
I've settled on two c3 plasma with a short range and thermal conduit mod, and two c2 plasma with overcharged one thermal conduit and the other dispersal field.
I get bit of respite from this annoying noise of gambled multi cannons, which I hate and can hit them at a slightly greater distance, also good if they are trying to run away!
The change in thought about heat management has allowed me to get rid of the thermal vent beam and drop down a grade in power plant, I'd been using an A7 with the thermal mod to really keep free of internal damage. Now that I've dropped back down a size, I have the weight allowance to get my D class long range mod scanner back, which I love having.

Now I've got 2 plasma on each trigger, one with more range than the other, using them staggered keeps my internals nice and healthy, using both at once rains down hell fire upon which ever poor soul has inspired my wrath!

Loving it, thanks again!
 
I'm back in a build that I feel comfy in and am really happy with all the changes, wanted to thank you for your input in here.
I've settled on two c3 plasma with a short range and thermal conduit mod, and two c2 plasma with overcharged one thermal conduit and the other dispersal field.
I get bit of respite from this annoying noise of gambled multi cannons, which I hate and can hit them at a slightly greater distance, also good if they are trying to run away!
The change in thought about heat management has allowed me to get rid of the thermal vent beam and drop down a grade in power plant, I'd been using an A7 with the thermal mod to really keep free of internal damage. Now that I've dropped back down a size, I have the weight allowance to get my D class long range mod scanner back, which I love having.

Now I've got 2 plasma on each trigger, one with more range than the other, using them staggered keeps my internals nice and healthy, using both at once rains down hell fire upon which ever poor soul has inspired my wrath!

Loving it, thanks again!
The heat management may come into issue with the plasmas: probably not too bad with good hit to low miss ratio. You probably would get comparable benefits with Efficient plasmas, in context to heat management and improved damage, paired with the short-range ones. The Armored and Thermal experimental helps quite a lot in dropping down heat spikes after it's been ramped up still yielding the bonus damage from the plasma experiments. Some thought on that. Kind of like how you can equip a Viper mk3 with 4 railguns and never run into heat problems: 2x SR and 2x Lightweight. And be able to fire them consecutively between reloads.
 
The heat management may come into issue with the plasmas: probably not too bad with good hit to low miss ratio. You probably would get comparable benefits with Efficient plasmas, in context to heat management and improved damage, paired with the short-range ones. The Armored and Thermal experimental helps quite a lot in dropping down heat spikes after it's been ramped up still yielding the bonus damage from the plasma experiments. Some thought on that. Kind of like how you can equip a Viper mk3 with 4 railguns and never run into heat problems: 2x SR and 2x Lightweight. And be able to fire them consecutively between reloads.
I have had a lot of fun running some tests in a hazardous mining site, with a hot running build and full short range and overcharged plasma load out. I'm starting to realise just how powerful the krait 7A distributor is, as it is able to handle this quite easily. Fine tuning the damage so that it is only 2% max on modules each combat. A lot of fun and the fights are over very quickly.

However, I tried this build on the pirate assassination mission and it is nowhere near as efficient as my previous builds for that. I was surprised how tricky it can be when your opponent is going after others too. Rather than blasting them in the face each round in a joust.

I need to learn to fly somewhat better, or alter the build.

Ive been having some fun with rails, looking for another path, having reread the posts above, I've also been trying frag cannons. Which are great to, two rails and two frag cannons is pretty awesome. But I'm not fond of the frag cannons lower armour piercing, as it means that you have to put a caustic Ammo mod on one, which seems a bit of a waste.

I tried the high yield shell mod on the c3 cannons, I still love the cannons, but not this mod. I just noticed on inara that there is a +25 armour piercing on that, which is not a lot of use on the c3 as they are already piercing 70. So perhaps this mod will work well on smaller cannons, but for the c3 I really did not like it, did not try targeting individual models with it though.

I seem to have settled for now on two rails and two short range blaster plasmas accelerators, loving this combo, the rails are superb fun when the ships are to far for plasma, and they warm the ship up nicely for when they move in for the plasma volley. I've got them both with long range and feedback cascade.

I've found the larger power plant with a thermal mod to be best, prefer running cool, and heating up to fire, it does seem, as I think you mentioned above, that they peek hot just long enough and then cool back down again quickly. So far less internal damage, but the shot still appears to hit hot. I need to do more experimentation with this though, and try some missions with it. The thing I don't really like about theis is the weight, so I'm fiddling with the build still to see if I can get a decent balance of shields and sensors, with the weapon load and heat setup. Removing a shield booster, to free up a slot for either heat sync or chaff. Prismatics were mentioned above, which I still do not have, nor have I used. I tend to try to run with bi-weave, but then this is not PvP it's for pirate missions, essentially for testing builds and getting materials. Of course the whole material thing is about to change though.

I'm kind of realising at the moment that I'm going to need a different build for missions, than what ever I use in PvP.

I'm pondering boost and boost turning at the moment, wondering whether I can incorporate that into my combat style with the FDL in most pirate missions. I always end up jousting, I would need I think, break this routine, if I want to have any success with 4 plasma in this. I will find out soon enough for the rails and plasma mix, as that's the next test combination for missions.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Oh boy! The railgun plasma mix, now that I've a vague idea about heat management, is awesome! Able to chip away at the FDL in a kill mission, but run out of ammo, and the rotter ran off whilst I was refilling! Swapping the feedback cascade for plasma slug, until my hit percent is a little higher.

Feels like this combo will make me a better pilot though, dang it is hard to think about pip management whilst staying on target for the rails! But welcoming to see the glow and hear the warning of the plasma, when you use it, because the rails keep you nice and toasty.
Massive drop in plasma hits as well though, due to concentrating for the rails.

Well this really has deviated from the originating topic, more about learning to engineer than it is about chaff.

That said, I have freed up a utility point for either chaff or heat sinks, seems to be the achilles heal of the krait, the 4 utility points, if there were more, I think it would be a lot harder for the FDL to maintain the upper hand.

addendum: With the short range blaster mod on the rails, it would seem that the dirty deed gets done a lot faster!
Particular to the krait for sure, but when you can't quite get the reticle onto the leading circle for the plasma, you are usually right on them and can hit them with the rails, what a glorious a thing it is, the spanking sound from those rails!
 
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Oh boy! The railgun plasma mix, now that I've a vague idea about heat management, is awesome! Able to chip away at the FDL in a kill mission, but run out of ammo, and the rotter ran off whilst I was refilling! Swapping the feedback cascade for plasma slug, until my hit percent is a little higher.

Feels like this combo will make me a better pilot though, dang it is hard to think about pip management whilst staying on target for the rails! But welcoming to see the glow and hear the warning of the plasma, when you use it, because the rails keep you nice and toasty.
Massive drop in plasma hits as well though, due to concentrating for the rails.

Well this really has deviated from the originating topic, more about learning to engineer than it is about chaff.

That said, I have freed up a utility point for either chaff or heat sinks, seems to be the achilles heal of the krait, the 4 utility points, if there were more, I think it would be a lot harder for the FDL to maintain the upper hand.

addendum: With the short range blaster mod on the rails, it would seem that the dirty deed gets done a lot faster!
Particular to the krait for sure, but when you can't quite get the reticle onto the leading circle for the plasma, you are usually right on them and can hit them with the rails, what a glorious a thing it is, the spanking sound from those rails!
I think your thougt process is good.

For pvp you also have to consider DPE, damage per :energy', e.g. damage per distributor draw.

FDL with C4, c2, c2 PAs all three efficient, it does
dmg 290
distro draw 21, ~46% of wep capacitor (46)

FDL with C4 C2 efficient and c2 SRB
damage: 317
distro draw : 25 ~%55 (46)

Phantom with 2 c3 SRB
damage : 290
distro draw: 27.2 ~%47 (58)

So you are doing about the same damage to an fdl with all efficient for the same amount of resource (wep cap) while charging slightly faster. In the end you have to hit the fdl as often as it hits you, which implies you are a better pilot than that of the fdl imo.
 
I think your thougt process is good.

For pvp you also have to consider DPE, damage per :energy', e.g. damage per distributor draw.

FDL with C4, c2, c2 PAs all three efficient, it does
dmg 290
distro draw 21, ~46% of wep capacitor (46)

FDL with C4 C2 efficient and c2 SRB
damage: 317
distro draw : 25 ~%55 (46)

Phantom with 2 c3 SRB
damage : 290
distro draw: 27.2 ~%47 (58)

So you are doing about the same damage to an fdl with all efficient for the same amount of resource (wep cap) while charging slightly faster. In the end you have to hit the fdl as often as it hits you, which implies you are a better pilot than that of the fdl imo.
Thank you for your input!

I am very frustrated flying this combo, because it makes it blatantly obvious to me that I'm not using pips anywhere near to their full potential yet; So, there is a hell of a lot of room for improvement, I'm sticking with it, seems to fit my current needs perfectly.

It really is a lot of fun exploring this, such a great game!
 
Thank you for your input!

I am very frustrated flying this combo, because it makes it blatantly obvious to me that I'm not using pips anywhere near to their full potential yet; So, there is a hell of a lot of room for improvement, I'm sticking with it, seems to fit my current needs perfectly.

It really is a lot of fun exploring this, such a great game!
I totally agree with you! This game is about enjoying yourself in the ship, learning how to fly each build regardless of how they measure up in pvp.

My point is, when I see pvpers in a krait (in 1v1) they seem to use the mk2 with 2 rails, 2 C3 efficient PAs and one C3 SRB/OC PA, or 4-5PAs, those builds (with prismatics and choosing the time carefully when to shield bank) are good against a range of fdl builds and against large ships, as well as small ships.

I think the phantom may work but if you choose to go with PAs, I don't think you can do 2. You need 3 or 4, and you have to look at DPE. For example 2 c2 SRBs and 2 c3 efficients

dmg: 396
distro: 32.3 ~58% of the cap

Now you have more absolute damage than the fdl per distro but no long range weapons. You'll have to close range enough to hit.
 
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My goal at the moment is to bring boost turning, distance and 'flight assist off' into the tool kit. Getting a better hit ratio with the rail and PA combo, 'either or' and I can sometimes hit with both at the same time; But not yet good enough at manoeuvring to count on a volley of all four PA's every time. I'm still training mostly in PvE but with a mind to stepping up to PvP eventually.

What is the full damage of the 2 c3 SRB PA's and the 2 SRB rails? I'm on plasma slugs, but am hoping that with an increase hit rate, I can loose those and get their full damage back, and feedback cascade!

I will start to play closer attention to the damage total and compare it to the distributor capacity, makes so much sense now that you have demonstrated.
 
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My goal at the moment is to bring boost, distance and flight assist off into the tool kit. Getting a better hit ratio with the rail and PA combo, 'either or' and I can sometimes hit with both at the same time; But not yet good enough at manoeuvring to count on a volley of all four PA's every time. I'm still training mostly in PvE but with a mind to stepping up to PvP eventually.

What is the full damage of the 2 c3 SRB PA's and the 2 SRB rails? I'm on plasma slugs, but am hoping that with an increase hit rate, I can loose those and get their full damage back, and feedback cascade!

I will start to play closer attention to the damage total and compare it to the distributor capacity, makes so much sense now that you have demonstrated.
Best thing to do might be to have a play around on here. Let's you fiddle about with numbers without burning through a load of mats in game.
 
Best thing to do might be to have a play around on here. Let's you fiddle about with numbers without burning through a load of mats in game.
Thank you for the pointer!

I am using that too along with EDSY, but as I like to say, engineering is a 0 sum game and one needs to be in the saddle to get the best results, by which I mean you have to test fly them to really know; I feel like a kid with a lego set to be honest, with all the modules spread all over the floor, trying out different combos until something sticks. I don't mind getting materials when I run short, very grateful for the HIP 36601 info, if I didn't get that, I'd be out exploring looking for something similar.

The thing with minmax situation is they are so darn complex, I like to go with hunches and get a feel for how all the things work together, for me doing is how that sticks best, rather than just looking at the figures; But man those sites are a god send though, they really do help. Alas the fact remains that I have nine 6A, six 7A power plants, three 7A power distributors and untold number of shield boosters all in different states of engineering application, close to hand for testing.

Which reminds me, I must figure out how to run some of the local software too, particularly the one behind the INARA site for reports and data sharing, I think off hand EDDiscovery; I'm on a Mac using wine, so the config is a little more obscure than on a windows PC.
 
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I totally agree with you! This game is about enjoying yourself in the ship, learning how to fly each build regardless of how they measure up in pvp.

My point is, when I see pvpers in a krait (in 1v1) they seem to use the mk2 with 2 rails, 2 C3 efficient PAs and one C3 SRB/OC PA, or 4-5PAs, those builds (with prismatics and choosing the time carefully when to shield bank) are good against a range of fdl builds and against large ships, as well as small ships.

I think the phantom may work but if you choose to go with PAs, I don't think you can do 2. You need 3 or 4, and you have to look at DPE. For example 2 c2 SRBs and 2 c3 efficients

dmg: 396
distro: 32.3 ~58% of the cap

Now you have more absolute damage than the fdl per distro but no long range weapons. You'll have to close range enough to hit.
After my initial hedonistic joy at the raw damage of 2 SRB c3 PA's, I've headed the wisdom in your post, and gone for 2 efficient c3 PA's, with either 2 c2 short range, when I want extra damage to hand, and this gets the heat going and allows for two volleys in one distributor charge, or a more 'sensible' option with 2 overcharged c2 PA's with the 2 c3 efficients, for every day in game use.

Oh my! Boost turning, wow ... My world just changed! With the 2 c2 short range and 2 c3 efficient, I have just managed to decimate the FDL in a team mission, and still had 75% shields left at the end, this is absolutely another league for me, a first, I normally have use shield cells at some point. All this due to it not being able to hit me when I boost about.

Dang, this changes everything!

Dropped the heatsink's and have an extra shield booster in my limited utility mouse space now; Seems that the real replacement for chaff, is the boost button!

I will have to try a similar mkii build, as the boost turn changes things a lot, that said, if you can land you boost in the same direction that you were previously traveling, and get your assisted flight thrusters back in line, having them as snappy as a whip is going to be a massive advantage, if it is doable consistently. The mkii always feels a bit heavy to me after the phantom.
 
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After my initial hedonistic joy at the raw damage of 2 SRB c3 PA's, I've headed the wisdom in your post, and gone for 2 efficient c3 PA's, with either 2 c2 short range, when I want extra damage to hand, and this gets the heat going and allows for two volleys in one distributor charge, or a more 'sensible' option with 2 overcharged c2 PA's with the 2 c3 efficients, for every day in game use.

Oh my! Boost turning, wow ... My world just changed! With the 2 c2 short range and 2 c3 efficient, I have just managed to decimate the FDL in a team mission, and still had 75% shields left at the end, this is absolutely another league for me, a first, I normally have use shield cells at some point. All this due to it not being able to hit me when I boost about.

Dang, this changes everything!

Dropped the heatsink's and have an extra shield booster in my limited utility mouse space now; Seems that the real replacement for chaff, is the boost button!

I will have to try a similar mkii build, as the boost turn changes things a lot, that said, if you can land you boost in the same direction that you were previously traveling, and get your assisted flight thrusters back in line, having them as snappy as a whip is going to be a massive advantage, if it is doable consistently. The mkii always feels a bit heavy to me after the phantom.
Great.

Back to pvp, soon you will be in a position to understand why the krait mk2 vs phantom is preferred in pvp.

If you are facing an fdl that needs to stay close to you, you have a chance with the phantom. But if you run into an fdl that has 3 or 4 long range rails, you can't keep up with the damage. They will pick at your shield 3-4km away. If the phantom had just an extra class 1 hardpoint, you could have a c1 and c2 rail and c2 c3 c3 PAs and you'd have a chance. By you having to close the range to the fdl every pass, you have to be a much better pilot than that of the fdl.

With the krait mk2, you 2 rails will do enough damage long range, and 3 C3 PAs give you a well rounded ship against various builds.

Even if you don't fly faoff majority of the time, you should learn faoff boost flip, possibly using the landing gear/cargo scopp during the first few seconds of the boost.
 
I do use FA off from time to time, can see how developing this will really give the ability to put the boost exactly where you want it; No mean feat though!

I see what you mean about the mkii that is the best of both worlds, the 2 rail build and the all plasma, combined into one. That extra c6 slot would make a lot of difference to the shields too, especially with prismatic, if they give the equivalent of a size up, a c6 cell bank and a c6 prismatic would give a lot of shield for only 2 spaces!

Such a great game, I just got a mission trading post mission that made perfect use of my new build, the great thing about the krait, is that you can use the combat build for delivering cargo, so missions where you get folk sent to kill you whilst you deliver become great fun.
I was lead to a base with horizons possible doings on the ground too. I've not gone anywhere near those yet, I can't believe folk say this game is not deep. I find it to be quite incredibly rich, but also extremely challenging; Which is perfect.
 
Shield boosters guard you against all damage, at all times, so long as shields stay up. Chaff guards you against gimballed weapons if you are small enough and/or far away enough.

ECM/PDTs only guard you against explosive damage, the sources of which are few, low in damage, and only really a threat if your shields are down.

Heat sinks aren't necessary with Armored powerplant engineering, efficient/specialized engineering to reduce heat from weapons, & being aware of heat stacking when firing weapons (as well as things like incendiary making weapons cause about as much heat as unengineered beams of the same size class) - and/or if you just make use of thermal vent beams.

The other utilities are for AX things.


p.s. 2 MRPs is overkill on anything that isn't an outright pure hull tank, and especially bad use of the limited optional slots in an FDL.
 
Thank you for the pointer!

I am using that too along with EDSY, but as I like to say, engineering is a 0 sum game and one needs to be in the saddle to get the best results, by which I mean you have to test fly them to really know; I feel like a kid with a lego set to be honest, with all the modules spread all over the floor, trying out different combos until something sticks. I don't mind getting materials when I run short, very grateful for the HIP 36601 info, if I didn't get that, I'd be out exploring looking for something similar.

The thing with minmax situation is they are so darn complex, I like to go with hunches and get a feel for how all the things work together, for me doing is how that sticks best, rather than just looking at the figures; But man those sites are a god send though, they really do help. Alas the fact remains that I have nine 6A, six 7A power plants, three 7A power distributors and untold number of shield boosters all in different states of engineering application, close to hand for testing.

Which reminds me, I must figure out how to run some of the local software too, particularly the one behind the INARA site for reports and data sharing, I think off hand EDDiscovery; I'm on a Mac using wine, so the config is a little more obscure than on a windows PC.
Also, the numbers don't lie; it's not the kind of game where "getting a feel" will work well, where invested time and effort Engineering is concerned. Being able to spot and see the nuances of the story the numbers tell is something that can come with experience, but you won't get there by avoiding looking at the figures.

Luckily for you, tomorrow the pain of Engineering is finally getting a significant reduction, so that may not be such a big worry anymore!
 
Also, the numbers don't lie; it's not the kind of game where "getting a feel" will work well, where invested time and effort Engineering is concerned. Being able to spot and see the nuances of the story the numbers tell is something that can come with experience, but you won't get there by avoiding looking at the figures.

Luckily for you, tomorrow the pain of Engineering is finally getting a significant reduction, so that may not be such a big worry anymore!
The numbers model reality for sure, but the truth of minmax is that this is very complicated and there are often more than one solution, none are the solution, for risk of getting stuck in a rut that is not ideal. Some folks can feel it and others can't, that is a whole other matter entirely, same thing as the difference between theory and experimentation.

Any fool can blindly apply a formula, not all fools can find the formula from the reality; End of the day we are all still fooling around.
 
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