Exploration Scans

[CMDR Maxwell Goldman]

I think whatever adds more depth should be implemented. Simply honking your ADS and revealing virtually every detail about every world in a system feels too streamlined, so I'm kind of a "grey-sphere" supporter. My decision to further investigate a body should be an informed decision made not from being spoon fed too much information, but using logic and the limited info given by the ADS to fuel my curiosity. For example, if I'm looking for a potential life-harboring planet, I should analyze factors such as Star class, planet's orbital distance, and planet mass to decide whether I will further investigate. This makes it almost feel like I'm doing real science.

Simply giving us a fully-realized map upon a discovery scan eliminates any element of mystery, and therefore makes exploration a simple grind rather than an engaging endeavor.

 

[ChaosCloud]

Simply giving us a fully-realized map upon a discovery scan eliminates any element of mystery, and therefore makes exploration a simple grind rather than an engaging endeavor.

That's where the opinions split, to me it already is one given the huge amounts of time you throw into it for lousy pay and very rare intersting finds.

I'd take the surface map on honking but I'm also fine with it needing a scan and just giving me the preview with honking, as long as I have something to decide before hand whenever or not I even want to attempt throwing time at a body, because more often than not did I think there'd be interesting things only to find out that there's nothing at all and this is with the current previews after honking, so without them would this become even worse.

I'm not against depth, by all means, exploration needs way more of that to begin with, but the shadow spheres are too much in the time sink territory for my taste and that doesn't feel like depth but simply like "here waste some more time on finding crap".

 

[Ziljan]

The Basic and Intermediate scanners are both nearly worthless

I would like to see material density change based on location. The DSS could show areas of higher concentration of materials. Driving around forever looking for that 1% Yttrium becomes a bore after a while.

I agree the Basic and Intermediate scanners deserve a reason to exist.
Please check out Obsidian Ant's video showing how they could be made useful again, and give everyone the type of scanner they want. (@ t=4:31)

Also, I love the idea of having the material density be based on location, so that we could either know from experience where to look or by using the DSS.

[video=youtube_share;iGQafi6K7v0]https://youtu.be/iGQafi6K7v0?t=4m31s[/video]

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

I agree the Basic and Intermediate scanners deserve a reason to exist.
Please check out Obsidian Ant's video showing how they could be made useful again, and give everyone the type of scanner they want. (@ t=4:31)

Also, I love the idea of having the material density be based on location, so that we could either know from experience where to look or by using the DSS.

https://youtu.be/iGQafi6K7v0?t=4m31s

Well, one thing that could be done is that the ADV weights more than the INT. and the BASIC is the lighter of then all.. so in the essence something like that:

ADV : 5T
INT : 3T
BAS : 1T

DETAILED : 2T

 

[PaulR]

I like the beta version, but only with a detailed surface scanner can you see the textures of the planet. without you should see just the sphere.

I think you need to look at the scanner as a meta module that gets a number of upgrades. The number of up gradable slots depends on the size of the module. It would look a bit like that. Basic and medium need a size slot 1 and have one upgrade slot that contains the basic or medium stellar body scanner. A size 2 slot can accept a basic, medium, and advanced scanner. In all of them you get the stellar body scanner, and you can add the surface scanner. They can be basic (atmo composition and basic composition of the crust) Medium give you all that we have today but no %. Advanced gives you all info with %. With a size 3 slot, you now start to be able to stack far more sub modules in there. Stellar body, detailed surface scanner (or what ever quality you can buy) and then you can add the deposit scanner, or energy source scanner / elevation map. These scanners would give you circles of areas of interest. Once again they come in basic medium and advanced version. Each version giving a more precise area to look at. And above all they add value to your scan that you bring back to the universal cartographic.

Now we would also all like to be able to see the longitude and latitude lines (by 5 degrees) on the sphere view, so it become easier to know where to go when you have coords. I mean lets get unreal and ask also for the north/south compas in that view , and even more wild, let us enter coords on the screen and create a way-point!!!! (complete madness there).

Anyhow please consider these ideas

 

[Kuroshio]

Well, one thing that could be done is that the ADV weights more than the INT. and the BASIC is the lighter of then all.. so in the essence something like that:

ADV : 5T
INT : 3T
BAS : 1T

DETAILED : 2T

Or you could go by size, adding an element of progression through the ship types:
DSS, BDS: Size 1
IDS: Size 2
ADS: Size 3

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Or you could go by size, adding an element of progression through the ship types:
DSS, BDS: Size 1
IDS: Size 2
ADS: Size 3

That's is basically the same since the mass ( NOT WEIGHT! I must correct myself of that ) are mostly bidden by the class and rating of the module. But I'd not let people suffer from the class problems.... I feel like many people would complain about the only 3T added to the ADV scan....

 

[Ziljan]

Well, one thing that could be done is that the ADV weights more than the INT. and the BASIC is the lighter of then all.. so in the essence something like that:

ADV : 5T
INT : 3T
BAS : 1T

DETAILED : 2T

That could work too
I was thinking:

ADV: C2 4T
INT: C1 2T
BAS: Utility Slot 1.3T

DETAILED: C1 1.3T


^In referrence to Obsidians Ant's video (4:31) for those just tuning in.

[video=youtube_share;iGQafi6K7v0]https://youtu.be/iGQafi6K7v0?t=4m31s[/video]

 

[Cula-Ta]

Hi Ziljan,
Obsidian's suggestion does not address the advanced surface scanner.
I think the advanced surface scanner should have greater range but should be the only one to reveal planet maps. Otherwise the    (advanced Surface Scanner) is a little bit redundant.

 

[amadeus1171]

I'm going to throw this out there. Please don't hate me. I've been up for 30+ hours.

To scan a body you should have to fly around the planet, gathering swaths of data with each swipe. You should be able to scan and share scans within a wing so you can gather data faster. What is scanned and what still needs to be scanned should be shown as an overlay in your HUD. The amount of detail you get in each swath depends on how close and how fast you fly around the planet. There is risk because if you get to close to an unlandable planet, you plunge out of supercruise, and if you get too close to a landable planet, you could... overheat? That seems like a stretch, but you get the gist. Finding the "sweet spot" gets you the most amount of data and a higher payout, plus it shows you exactly where to go for what element you're looking for.

The fly around surface scan should illuminate certain points of interest. You should have to focus your scan on these poi's to discover more detail about the planet, such as concentration of elements, unidentified signals, large structures, etc. To get even more detail, you should be able to go down to the rover and take soil samples to either return or do a basic analysis of the area.

You get the idea. Make exploration great (again? I guess it was never that great).

And oh yeah, this previous post of mine. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/298862-Under-carraige-Camera?p=4650181#post4650181

 

[Ziljan]

Hi Ziljan,
Obsidian's suggestion does not address the advanced surface scanner.
I think the advanced surface scanner should have greater range but should be the only one to reveal planet maps. Otherwise the (advanced Surface Scanner) is a little bit redundant.

Hey Cula-Ta,

You mean the Detailed Surface Scanner (DSS)?

The surface scanner reveals the Materials % of the planet as well as other scientific data. So it still has a role. That being said, I would also very much like to see that role expanded as many have said above to show "heat map" locations of places on the surface such as materials density by type, fumaroles, existence of artificial signals like crash sites, volcanoes, etc. I am not sure if the DSS is beyond the scope of what Sandro is asking us about, but I am confident that they are taking input for possible ideas for the future, and I am certain that nothing we are saying is new. Just reinforcing.

Fortunately, the DSS utility is separate from the 3 Discovery Scanners utility by the simple fact that Horizons is optional content, and the DSS pertains mostly to activities on the surface. So while they may have some seemingly overlapping roles, the actual functionality will probably always be quite distinct, on the off chance that someone hasn't purchased Horizons just yet. At least until Season 3 comes out, I imagine.

 

[Cula-Ta]

I prefer A.S.S.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

That's just an observation. Should have thought that through before posting

 

[Ignition]

Its time to bring new tools and gameplay mechanics.

Give me probes to scan the system and celestial bodies, give me a UI where I can explore the system, give me the oorey map once and for all.

I want to play, I want tools, I want mechanics and have something to do in your game FD.

 

[nathdixon92]

JUstinov give us back what you showed at gamescon! Having to fly half a million lightseconds just to see the surface of a planet is daft

 

[Necronaught]

Increase the range and speed (omg you know it's far too slow) of the surface scanner as well please. it takes too long to scan a system. This would encourage more people to become cartographers. Instead of jump and honking.

 

[00prometheus]

I'll pitch in my opinion here as well, though I guess it is well known by now. I must apologise for the fracas this has all caused, I originally thought it would be a tiny thread with just a few people interested. I never thought it would turn into this huge furball!

The way I think about it is this:

With the early-beta change (i.e. full surface planetary surface after ADS scan), the exploration style would become this: Jump into a system, honk the horn, look at the system map and you immediately get to see all there is to see in the system. Jump, honk and repeat. Once in a while you see a planet you want to look closer at, and those are the times when you do some supercruising to get to them. However, and this is the rub of the problem: You never actually do any system exploration any longer.

In my opinion, jump & honk is a quite boring; I like to fly around the unexplored systems and discover what there is to see in supercruise, rather than do a lot of jump & honk. That is why I started the thread; my style of exploration gets removed by the early-beta feature.

Now, I can fully understand the jump & honk explorers out there, the early-beta full planetary reveal makes things a lot more convenient if that is the type of game play you like. It's just that it completely removes system exploration for those of us that prefer that style of exploration. Do we really want to reduce the types of game play available to explorers?

I believe the 2.2 system map will still give a lot to the jump & honk explorers out there, even if it doesn't give full details of unexplored planets , because it makes one huge change regardless: The thumbnail images of the planets will be representations of the actual real rotating planets, not just place holders. It's just that the resolution won't be as high, so you will need to squint a bit to figure out what planets will be interesting and sometimes you will get it wrong. Still, for those that prefer to jump & honk, it is a big step up from what we had in 2.1!

 

[ChaosCloud]

This would encourage more people to become cartographers.

Not that I disagree with the suggestion but none of us are cartographers, because NOTHING we bring back gets actually added to any map but our own.
Or I simply have the wrong idea of what cartographers do with what they graphed.

 

[00prometheus]

I also read a request from FD here for general improvements to the exploration experience. I have one simple idea: Give us access to all the Universal Cartographics data on tagged systems directly in the galactic map!

As it is now, we don't know if a system has been explored before we have jumped in to it. I would like to see all that data directly from the galactic map. A view in the galactic map with colours and filters for fully explored, partially explored and unexplored systems, as well as the ability to bring up the system map for partially and fully explored systems to see what has been found there. For those of us that like to explore the unknown, it lets us avoid the systems that have already been explored. Assuming we get fully expanded planetary images for planets that have been explored and tagged, it will let those that are looking for places to race and what not examine the systems in detail without even having to leave the bubble. And it would let those of us that like to go were no one has gone before a sense of giving something to the community.

Edit: I got ninja'd by ChaosCloud!

 

[ChaosCloud]

Edit: I got ninja'd by ChaosCloud!

Technically I ninja'd the whole thread before it's existance (but I might have been ninja'd before that too so whatever)

The wish for an exploration filter is almost as old as honk and jump. I know that I've mentioned the wish for something like that myself a longer while ago.

With 2.2 we'll atleast get a step towards there, or half a step. Currently it tracks what systems you've been in, but extremely badly. It actually doesn't even track which systems you've been to, it ONLY (as of 2.2 b7) tracks the systems you've JUMPED into.

For example, I was somewhere in deep space from live and wanted to test whenever a crew member can fly my ASPX while I SRV around (nope they cannot, BOOO) so I've used the self destruct for the first time ever and landed in Garoku.
And guess what, the system was not visited not even after changing planets and leaving the station I got respawned in.

I really really hope they will do a migration of your past travelling data when 2.2 goes live, otherwise will that filter be a bit of a let down.
Alone because you can technically already see which systems you've been to, these got a system map. You just can't see that in any easy way at all.


But yes I definitely hope they build up on that filter so we can find our own discoveries easier, and systems which have something left to scan.


I also had a different thought about the honk and jump and the surface map a bit ago.
Does it really make such a big difference if we'd get the surface map from just honking?

The argument from the "true" explorers is that it makes things too easy.
That is partially true. However, these people do exploration for it's own sake, so why does the option to look at the planet's surface from a distance make it less interesting for you?
Doesn't the ADS' honk in it's own ruin already enough for you? (not talking to the ones that run around with an IDS on purpose )

My thought went along the following: if you are out there to see things, then it won't matter much if you can see a planet's surface from a distance, you will either use it or you won't. It's not like the game forces you to look at it after you scanned it.
The same goes for the ADS honking, aside the fact that everything will be uncovered is it also an option to use the system map to "cherry pick" what you're looking into or not, the nav panel has also the whole system available.

So how much would "true" explorers really be affected by an option that can simply be ignored if not desired?
If you want to see planets up close and find them through SC then the surface map is not stopping you, on the other is the lack of it (from honking) forcing the ones who have a very specific interest in terrain features to go up to planets which might in the end be uninteresting and therefore a waste of time.
True, they could find something unexpected and still interesting on that way, but the same could be said about them being able to move quickly on and going to other places.

 

[Ra'Kaan]

I dunno if this is the right time or place to bring this up, but I`ve always felt we should get a nice tidy bonus for completly scanning every system body with the DSS. 50k, or 100k CR seems reasonable.

A full system scan with current orbital positions (at the time of scan) would seem to be valuable information to the Universal Carto. folks to keep all the maps up-to-date.

May add additional incentive for folk to travel that 200kls for that lonely ice ball way out there on the outter edges of the system.

Or for the sake of this thread, add incentive to use the DSS for removing the "fog of war" (cuz that`s what it amounts to) from the system map.