Newcomer / Intro Failing tutorial "Advanced combat training"

[fetito666]

Hello!

Somehow I am unable to finish the tutorial "advanced combat training". I have no clue what I am doing wrong. I have already seen the training videos and even completed some of the "challenge scenarios" such as "skirmish".

I guess my problem is focussing correctly the enemy and not using correctly the throttle system.

Since putting it all into words could be very vague, I recorded and uploaded a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuCPfPu9Ng8&feature=youtu.be

I use an X-Box One controller with the "Advanced Control Pad" settings.

Could someone please help me?

 

[metatheurgist]

If you were listening, Betty says wait for their shields to drop before using your missiles. This is because they're less effective against shields and more effective against hull.

Keep pips in SYS; that reduces damage. Get in the habit of moving pips to WEP when on the offensive and to SYS when under fire.

More lateral thrusters and less boosting.

Finer control just comes with practice. You're more maneuverable if you keep your throttle in the blue.

 

[CMDR Mr. Boombastic]

^^^ This.

Here's one combat tips video although applies more to the game proper rather than the tutorials but still contains some useful info:

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;XjYeCs5MA18]https://youtu.be/XjYeCs5MA18[/video]

Having 4 pips in SYS when you are being shot at, gives your shields significant protection/resistance:

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;RrSXvCEergY]https://youtu.be/RrSXvCEergY[/video]

EDIT: And don't forget to use Chaff as advised in the video.

 

[fetito666]

^^^ This.

Here's one combat tips video although applies more to the game proper rather than the tutorials but still contains some useful info:

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/XjYeCs5MA18

Having 4 pips in SYS when you are being shot at, gives your shields significant protection/resistance:

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/RrSXvCEergY

EDIT: And don't forget to use Chaff as advised in the video.

Thank you! I was able to do the tutorial. Yay! However, I do not understand what's meant by "dominant position" and how I get into that position.

 

[aRJay]

Thank you! I was able to do the tutorial. Yay! However, I do not understand what's meant by "dominant position" and how I get into that position.

Dominant position is I believe where you can bring all your weapons to bear on the target whilst he can't do the same to you.

 

[metatheurgist]

Thank you! I was able to do the tutorial. Yay! However, I do not understand what's meant by "dominant position" and how I get into that position.

I could explain but first we would need a safe word....

 

[Chris Simon]

I could explain but first we would need a safe word....

And different forum.

 

[fetito666]

And different forum.

Safe word?

 

[Chris Simon]

Safe word?

 

[metatheurgist]

Safe word?

Never mind my friend. Stay just as you are and never change.

 

[Ism]

I'm coming from a keyboard/joystick setup, so I don't know if it pertains to your configuration.
But I set my throttle at 50% and use my thrusters (up and down arrows) to speed up to 100% or down to full reverse.
This allows me to pay less attention to where the throttle is and more on combat (it always defaults to the best range for maneuverability).
Now that precludes Flight Assist off. If you go to FA off, you have to reset your speed to 50% if you go back to FA.
I have Voice Attack settings for my pips...(combat, escape, weapons) for various situations so I don't have to waste precious time looking at my settings.
VA is a great investment, you won't regret getting it if you do.

As far as technique, one thing I like to do is start turning as they are coming towards me and closing around 300m just before they pass.
You get the drop on them as they are swinging around.
Your lasers have greatly reduced power at over 2km, and gimbaled/turret weapons have much less accuracy. So you are better off holding your shots till you can do more damage.
Rather than depleting your capacitor before they get within 1km. Broadside and rear shots do more damage than a frontal attack.

Next lesson....fun with ramming.
Devs will eventually fix this, but I just love ramming pirates that are scanning me, knocking shields down and then attacking them.
And get this; you can't shoot System Authority with a stray shot or two before they come gunning for you.
But you can ram them to death and they don't even change course.

Ramming a ship into an asteroid is a special pleasure...but I've nose dived occasionally during the attempts.

 

[StiTch]

If we are talking about the incursions, I'mma put it straight out there that they're broken.

The incursion missions were developed many, many "rebalances" ago. Since then the toughening of AI and the change of much of the equipment/mechanics resulted in the incursions becoming a totally different demon. I believe the advanced incursion is doable, but comically the standard incursion is known as basically impossible to the point no-one could get the xbox achievement for doing all the training.

Also whoever designed that Asp loadout can go back to school.

Dominant position is I believe where you can bring all your weapons to bear on the target whilst he can't do the same to you.

There's a few bars in Brighton that offer this kind of experience.

 

[d8veh]

If you look at your distribitor capacitors. The weapons one stays full while you're using your pulse lasers, so you don't need 4 pips in them. Instead try keeping 2 in the weapons and 4 in the shields, then let the enemies come to you. Hold your fire until they're within about 1.5km because you hardly do any damage when the distance is more than that. If there's multiple enemies, switch fire to the nearest one if the one that you're shooting boosts away out of range. 4 pins to shields makes a massive difference to the fire that you can take. You had no pips in your shields, which you should never have unless you don't have shields, like silent running. Obviously, you can divert power from your shields when you're not taking fire, but as soon as you see fire landing on you, go back to 4 pips on the shields.

Apart from that you didn't do too bad.

I just had a go at that training exercise too. It isn't easy with one pulse laser against two ships with two pulse lasers and missiles. It took me 4 goes to kill those two eagles, after I'd had one go to figure out what happens. You need to use your chaff at the right time, which I think involves a bit of luck.

 

[S.Bartfast]

I too am having a great deal of trouble with this exercise.

I have watched the linked videos and found Vindicator Jones' videos (Combat Tips 101) especially helpful and have watch and re-watched both part one and part two several times, however I am having a great deal of trouble maintaining the "dominant" position myself. In particular, while I find I am able to get into the prescribed position to initiate the attack and I am able to land several good blasts (which is usually enough to boil away the other ships shield) I almost always loose the advantage before I'm able to sink a missile in (and that sounded a lot more sordid than I intended when I re-read it).

Typically I loose the advantage by allowing the ship in front to execute a 180 flip and bare back on me, guns blazing. We pass while I still have shields left but then spend the rest of the dogfight with my trying to pull back around to get on his tail again and him constantly flying by hitting me with wave after wave of fire on every pass. While I can always get a few hits in myself on each of these passes his shields regenerate after just a couple of passes and I am unable to burn through them again while he is able to rip through mine, and we basically perform this crisscross dance till I am eventually blown to pieces. This scenario plays out time and time again and I seem completely incapable of doing anything else.

So my question is, how do I prevent the ship ahead from doing the 180 flip and if it does what is the best way to deal with it.


Thanks,
Slarti.

 

[vindicator jones]

I too am having a great deal of trouble with this exercise.

I have watched the linked videos and found Vindicator Jones' videos (Combat Tips 101) especially helpful and have watch and re-watched both part one and part two several times, however I am having a great deal of trouble maintaining the "dominant" position myself. In particular, while I find I am able to get into the prescribed position to initiate the attack and I am able to land several good blasts (which is usually enough to boil away the other ships shield) I almost always loose the advantage before I'm able to sink a missile in (and that sounded a lot more sordid than I intended).

Typically I loose the advantage by allowing the ship in front to execute a 180 flip and bare back on me, guns blazing. We pass while I still have shields left but then spend the rest of the dogfight with my trying to pull back around to get on his tail again and him constantly flying by hitting me with wave after wave of fire on every pass. While I can always get a few hits in myself on each of these passes his shields regenerate after just a couple of passes and I am unable to burn through them again while he is able to rip through mine, and we basically perform this crisscross dance till I am eventually blown to pieces. This scenario plays out time and time again and I seem completely incapable of doing anything else.

So my question is, how do I prevent the ship ahead from doing the 180 flip and if it does what is the best way to deal with it.


Thanks,
Slarti.

This post has made me completely regret saying "dominant position" in my videos.. lol... THANKS GUYS!!

ANYWHO, back to your problem.. The AI has been made a bit more agressive since I released those videos, and they now take full advantage of their thrusters. This means they will often reverse turn on you, making it almost impossible to get behind them.. ALMOST..

I am going to be doing an updated video series of the original combat videos and make them more relevant for todays AI. The trick is keeping your thrusters in the blue zone and maximizing your use of thrusters, including reverse thrust. The AI does it, and it does it VERY well. In fact they do it so well that most newer pilots think that the AI is cheating, especially when an Anaconda can seem to do a 180 degree turn on a dime, but it's not, it is just using its thrusters far more effectively than most human pilots.

There is no single technique or trick you can use to defeat this, and now boils down a lot more to experience and skill level. But the basics hold true. Keep your main engines in the blue zone, use thrusters, and very importantly, learn how to reverse thrust, its how you can get behind targets very easily, just like the AI does to you.

 

[X-Terminator]

I think the Advanced Combat Tutorials are just for Elite Ranked Players [big grin]

 

[S.Bartfast]

I am going to be doing an updated video series of the original combat videos and make them more relevant for todays AI.

Wonderful! I must say Vindicator, I like your videos very much. I only started playing Elite this weekend but have found your videos most informative and very well produced. I really am impressed with your work

The trick is keeping your thrusters in the blue zone and maximizing your use of thrusters, including reverse thrust...

I have attempted to use my thrusters during combat a little but have not had much success as of yet. I've found the thrusters useful while attempting to maneuver into the position from which to begin the assault but have not yet mastered the art of using them during the dogfight proper. I also haven't yet worked out how to use reverse thrust so will look it up and will see how I get on.

I have to say though, if a comprehensive knowledge of thrust vectoring is required to pass the mission it would seen a bit advanced for a "training" exercise. I acknowledge it's called "Advanced Combat Training" but if mastery of such maneuvers is required to pass it "B*tching Betty" could be a little more instructive than just saying "Save your missiles to you've blown away their shield".

 

[d8veh]

Use of thrusters works better on some ships than others. Also getting them improved by the engineers has a big effect. The Viper, Vulture and FDL have really good vertical and lateral thrusters that enable you to dance around your enemy, though with each update, the chance to use them seems to get reduced. Before 2.2 (Probably when VJ made his vids) you could stay behind an Anaconda if you had any of those three ships. Now, they just boost away, spin around and face you the whole time, so you have to be very active with pip managementl to get the speed to fly past then when they point at you.

You can copy their technique to stop small ships from getting behind you. If you know that you can out-tank your enemy, then just reverse and point at them. If they can still go so fast as to go behind you by boosting, switch FA off for a bit, which makes you reverse turn a lot quicker. That works really well against those pesky Adders that keep boosting above you just as your lasers get a lock on them.

 

[CMDR Mr. Boombastic]

Reposting this when was able to complete the new advanced tutorial.....after a few tries:

Do as advised:

• Use the missiles only when the shields are down as they are more effective against hull and not shields.
• Use chaff when being fired upon so the NPCs gimballed weapons lose their lock on your ship (especially when you are being fired upon by more than one ship.)

Additionally:

• Keep your throttle in the centre of the blue zone for faster turning/manoeuvrability.
• Whenever taking fire have 4 pips to SYS so your shields last up to 2.5 times longer.
• When you are behind your target then apply more pips to WEP.

Here is one CMDR testing out the new voice-guided tutorials during 2.2 beta (time link is starting from the advanced combat training), but as you see the CMDR makes a few mistakes (using missiles on shields; not enough pips in SYS so his shields go down easily):
https://youtu.be/tuFxwL27jTI?t=12m5s

Welcome and fly safe CMDR, o7.

 

[Rushjob]

Pretty damn aggravating.

I was reading through all of the posts given and I can't even take down the shields of the first ship. The target probably gets run down to over half shields by the time mine are gone and I'm full pip into system.

I'm finding this ridiculous and makes me very worried that I've wasted my money on a game I was hoping wouldn't be too combat centered only to find out it's very combat centered and it's incredibly tedious and nearly impossible in my opinion.

I keep my throttle in the blue, I max out my system pip when being shot at and max out my weapons for the couple seconds he's not while he's turning around in about half the time it takes me so I'm only getting about 2 or 3 hits in before I have to max out my sys pip again and try to get past him so he's not shooting me anymore.

Or I get stuck in a loop where I can't even see him while I'm getting shot directly above me. I've even tried staying in the blue and maxed out my engines to try and out maneuver them but I still can't get out of it and end up blowing up.

is going wrong here?