Fairplay proposal to DW2 gankers: attack but don't destroy ships
- Thread starter VR SenseiMatty
- Start date
the whole point in them attacking is to farm salt from the explosion! Do yourself a favour - if you see a ship lining up behind, drop power and emergency drop out SC. Goto menu, quit. Restart in SOLO, then mock them in chat for not being able to find you. After a few mins, quit and restart in OPEN ^_^
Anyway, most of the kiddie gankers have gone back to the bubble - they dont have the ability to navigate much past 5k lyrs ^_^
Anyway, most of the kiddie gankers have gone back to the bubble - they dont have the ability to navigate much past 5k lyrs ^_^
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The Replicated Man
T
In the same way that most explorers are flying paper ships, the gankers are having to make sacrifices as well (Hull armor, Increased Range FSD, MRPS) So consider what they are flying Lite versions of their ships. In reality, they are far stronger and last longer in most cases.
Never underestimate your opponent. When you drop your guard, that is when you are most vulnerable.
Never underestimate your opponent. When you drop your guard, that is when you are most vulnerable.
This is wrong, its very easy to take a full combat loadout on the DW2 expedition. I know because im there in my 1.3billion combat build cutter with a 32ly jump.
The Replicated Man
T
Ok, you probably aren't running an armored or fast boot fsd. Sacrifice one (Flechettes or Phasing will make your day miserable)
I am guessing you have no more than 3k armor on a full combat build with that sort of jump range.
More than likely you are running one or no MRP as well. So my statement stands.
How can it be fair if one side explodes and the other not?
Fair isn't about outcome it's about the opportunity to play on a level playing field. Which everyone had before they left dock.
Except they didn't as there are legacy modules in game.
Deleted member 115407
D
Yep, you gotta draw the the line somewhere.
This falls apart when you realise how easy it is to develop a defendable ship: engineering is MASSIVELY in favour of defence and not offence. Especially with lightweight modifications and FSD mods and boosters, it's now easier than ever to have a jump-heavy exploration ship that has the defensive qualities to escape almost any interdiction unharmed.
Players of ED more than any other game have an obsession over maxing jump range/tradability/whatever while sacrificing all ship and skill requirements for escaping combat intact - but then complaining as though it's everyone elses' fault when they get hurt. Equipment tradeoff is important in any games that allows customisation: y'all don't see me playing Skyrim as a cloth wearing mage, and then whining I can't beat up armoured 2H orcs in melee combat.
End of the day FD wanted "the deep" to be dangerous, and though this was never really developed for NPC/environmental hazards, you were never meant to fly through the great void with 70+LY cardboard boxes. Take this as a memo that you are in fact allowed to fit a decent shield and thrusters, and you are allowed to know how to escape an interdiction. Heaven forbid, get an escort of combat pilots and kick the gankers back to kingdom come. Are RPGs not about roles?
OP - if gankers want to make your life hell without destroying you, they'll leave your hull intact. It'll be your modules that go bye-bye. And that sounds kinda more fun for a challenge-laden return home, yes?
I agree that defense is massively favoured by engineering. +1000% vs +100%. (Cue in PvP with its 20min TTK)
But then again, we are speaking of explorers which will not fill the ship with modded G5 HD HRP's and pack multiple HD boosters.
The effective HP gain in a light weight iron build is maybe +100% to +200%. Which is good for a 1v1 gank, but likely insufficient for
a 4v1 attempt.
Avoiding trouble by fitting properly likely costs 2lyr. That is more than acceptable for any explo build except for rim surfing.
Also, If I was in an explorer ganking mood I would go with stuff like HY cannons and/or flechette launchers.
Being stuck in a ship at 1% PP and 1% AFMU is a receipe for prolonged grief if you get my drift.
But then again, we are speaking of explorers which will not fill the ship with modded G5 HD HRP's and pack multiple HD boosters.
The effective HP gain in a light weight iron build is maybe +100% to +200%. Which is good for a 1v1 gank, but likely insufficient for
a 4v1 attempt.
Avoiding trouble by fitting properly likely costs 2lyr. That is more than acceptable for any explo build except for rim surfing.
Also, If I was in an explorer ganking mood I would go with stuff like HY cannons and/or flechette launchers.
Being stuck in a ship at 1% PP and 1% AFMU is a receipe for prolonged grief if you get my drift.
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Well, I built a Cutter on Coriolis that has 533 m/s boost and can kill your Phantom shields in 4 seconds and the hull in 2 seconds, according to Coriolis (true numbers, comparing to your exact build, using frag cannons engineered). So don't be too sure that you can escape any ganker because you have a shield and some speed. This will mass lock you for supercruise jump and won't let you escape by high wake before killing you.
If you see a frag cannon armed cutter with an interdictor in open you shouldn't let yourself get interdicted though...
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Hmm, that's like saying, go mining, but don't collect anything.
I'm sure they'll listen.
To be fair I had exactly that suggested to me when saying I don't want trade elite so fast
This falls apart when you realise how easy it is to develop a defendable ship: engineering is MASSIVELY in favour of defence and not offence. Especially with lightweight modifications and FSD mods and boosters, it's now easier than ever to have a jump-heavy exploration ship that has the defensive qualities to escape almost any interdiction unharmed.
Players of ED more than any other game have an obsession over maxing jump range/tradability/whatever while sacrificing all ship and skill requirements for escaping combat intact - but then complaining as though it's everyone elses' fault when they get hurt. Equipment tradeoff is important in any games that allows customisation: y'all don't see me playing Skyrim as a cloth wearing mage, and then whining I can't beat up armoured 2H orcs in melee combat.
End of the day FD wanted "the deep" to be dangerous, and though this was never really developed for NPC/environmental hazards, you were never meant to fly through the great void with 70+LY cardboard boxes. Take this as a memo that you are in fact allowed to fit a decent shield and thrusters, and you are allowed to know how to escape an interdiction. Heaven forbid, get an escort of combat pilots and kick the gankers back to kingdom come. Are RPGs not about roles?
OP - if gankers want to make your life hell without destroying you, they'll leave your hull intact. It'll be your modules that go bye-bye. And that sounds kinda more fun for a challenge-laden return home, yes?
So this all sounds logical and all but it is only half of the equation!. Where is the risk for the murder hobos? Explorers risk weeks of exploration progression if the smelly stuff hits the fan. What does the wing of gankers risk? Even IF they lose a ship what is the equivalent to the explorer loss?. Lets use your mage example against my melee warrior, fine in a sword fight I win....... But out side of my circle of reach you can truly mess me up. Where is the other shoe in elite?
At the absolute best all the "victim" can do is "draw" the aggressor can never lose.
Really in elite murder hobos should get NO insurance, NO docking in systems with any law system, no ability to jump in to a clean ship and should be kill on sight from all police (the pilots federation do install equipment which can automatically report crimes, maybe it should report against ourselves if we start attaching other pilots federation members!
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They risk the same amount of weeks, obviously.
Um, no. Sorry buddy, but I'm not dragging my murder machine all the way to Beagle Point just to give you a bit of a backrub.
I can't believe you are with straight face suggesting an asp explorer Cmdr specced for actual exploration is facing the same chance of total loss as a murder hobos in a PvP metaship. I thought you were more honest than that!
Well for a start, if money had any meaning in ED, there'd be a risk from the start. As it is, we instinctively remove monetary drawbacks from consideration, because we know that earning back several million ("several" not even covering it for a true combat iCutter or whatever) is not even an irritation.
Even then, do you really believe you would be the only victims here? I suspect many of the "victims" are in 70+LY cardboard boxes, while the murderers are in combat vessels that took longer to reach a destination to murder someone than the explorer they killed. If you even survive the murder attempts, you wasted more of their time than you took to get there - and they didn't even get exploration data for it. If you killed them outright, they wasted more time than you took to get there, only to be wasted themselves.
Secondly, as much as you don't like to hear it, the drawbacks are somewhat managed by attitude. I think if the DW fleet arranged a PvP retinue to escort them, and said escort obliterated most of SDC or whatever gank squad it is these days...said gank squad would take to the forums to state how proud they are of the DW crew. Some players are open to all aspects of the game, and others expect the game to fit within their...expectations.
Hell, let's take this at face value - what "rewards" do the gankers get at all? They aren't being paid for this. They're simply getting involved in a social aspect of a social game, regardless of whether you approve of that social sect. If that doesn't appeal to you, why are you taking part in a social initiative, and in Open where all player attitudes are welcome?
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You really think murderhobos are the only one's out there with guns and armor?
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Which is an admission that exploration, requiring travel over long distances, is an investment in a person's play time and therefore a significant loss when he/she is removed from the game prematurely.