FD, still after all this time. Missions still make no sense.

Yes, I don't understand why you can't do military missions as they were available in Frontier. I got stuck trying to get further promotion with the empire doing Nuke bombing missions on planets. Quite awesome diving down to your target with dozens of ships taking off to intercept you. Release... turn... accelerate... BOOM! Good old days of mega annihilation...:D

Michael Brookes indicated-a couple of months ago-that military missions would be getting an overhaul in Season 2, so that the military can be more of a real career!
 
I've had an NPC guy called Rob following me round for the last 2 weeks. He keeps telling me how hard to track down I am, yet never fails to find me within 2 jumps of me logging on each day.

I stacked a few pirate kill missions including a 3 week one that I couldn't be bothered to finish. If you stack a dozen and don't do them straight away, you get a flurry of half a dozen low wakes 3 seconds after you jump each time. Looks utterly ridiculous. Why didn't they just program a set limit of times they can give counter mission offers? Why make these bare bone place holder missions so skeletal in nature? Are they not embarrassed by them?

Well that is the benign variant. The other variant has a police NPC following you on a smuggling mission (or a pirate NPC during a legal transport mission) - of all the ships in the system, the NPC already is dead sure you are a smuggler. He'll chase you everywhere, and magically teleport to you no matter what. You may think you got rid of him after escaping that one interdiction, but the moment you leave supercruise at the destination, *poof* they appear right next to you the very instant you arrive.
 
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Can anyone provide an example of a game where you would say the missions "make sense"?

You can pick any game and poke holes into the lore and story surrounding missions/quests/etc.

I think FD should focus on new and varied missions types, all this talk about the missions not "making sense" is garbage and doesn't have any impact on gameplay.
 
Can anyone provide an example of a game where you would say the missions "make sense"?

You can pick any game and poke holes into the lore and story surrounding missions/quests/etc.

I think FD should focus on new and varied missions types, all this talk about the missions not "making sense" is garbage and doesn't have any impact on gameplay.

The impact on gameplay is what some of us are having issues with. When it comes to payout not making sense and whatnot I don't really care, I don't play this game for the credits and never will, but the example I've given above in regards to "missing pilots" in Horizons or other specific things in need of retrieval is very much a gameplay thing.

The mission is to find something specific, but there is no actual gameplay mechanic that allows me to do that.

Me flying over a random planet of my choosing (can even be the same planet I took the mission from and just 2 km west right next to the base) and just stumbling across my mission target by "pure chance" because the game spawned it in front of me does not count as me "finding something". That is the game delivering that content too me while I'm doing nothing. Missions like this needs to be improved because the gameplay it implies (searching and finding specific things) simply doesn't exist.

Give me a signature to look for with the mission and some sort of wave scanner like in the SRV that works inside the ship to help me triangulate the location of the thing I'm suppose to look for. That thing can still be spawned, but at a specific location somewhere for me to find.
 
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The impact on gameplay is what some of us are having issues with. When it comes to payout not making sense and whatnot I don't really care, I don't play this game for the credits and never will, but the example I've given above in regards to "missing pilots" in Horizons or other specific things in need of retrieval is very much a gameplay thing.

The mission is to find something specific, but there is no actual gameplay mechanic that allows me to do that.

Me flying over a random planet of my choosing (can even be the same planet I took the mission from and just 2 km west right next to the base) and just stumbling across my mission target by "pure chance" because the game spawned it in front of me does not count as me "finding something". That is the game delivering that content too me while I'm doing nothing. Missions like this needs to be improved because the gameplay it implies (searching and finding specific things) simply doesn't exist.

Give me a signature to look for with the mission and some sort of wave scanner like in the SRV that works inside the ship to help me triangulate the location of the thing I'm suppose to look for. That thing can still be spawned, but at a specific location somewhere for me to find.

Well said!
 
Can anyone provide an example of a game where you would say the missions "make sense"?

You can pick any game and poke holes into the lore and story surrounding missions/quests/etc.

I think FD should focus on new and varied missions types, all this talk about the missions not "making sense" is garbage and doesn't have any impact on gameplay.
obviously this man never played RPG games...
 
Didn't readthe whole thread, but the forst few posts already make a very good case against the current mission design, which is ridiculously bad.

I'll just add the branching missions where the alternative always seems to pay a lot less than the initial mission (which usually is already too low to be worth the effort).
 
Actually...logically they are placeholders if they are placeholders. FD doesn't have to confirm anything or replace them for that to be true. ;)

Also, in many cases these placeholders are both placeholders AND "final". It all depends on what they are applied too.

The USS/POI system is as an example of something that always going to be around simply because it's a mechanic used to populate the world around you with stuff to interact with. There isn't anything wrong with this system in itself. Something similar is used in pretty much all open world games to create emergent gameplay with random encounters. Some things makes less sense to make use of it though. Early in the year this was the only way to complete assassination missions for example by getting a mission from the BBS and finding a random USS were your target suddenly was. Later they refined these type of missions so that you instead could find your target in supercruise, interdict and take it out which made much more sense. The code that handled the generation of the mission on the BBS was probably the same more or less as before the change and the event when you come across your target in real space and fought it was also pretty much the same. The "glue" in between these two states was however added by spawning the target in supercruise and therefore hooking that into the interdiction mechanic. This allowed you to actively find the target and hunt it down.

These assassination missions are actually a perfect parallel to the "missing pilots" and and example of something that was fixed in Season 1 (and there are more examples). Both assassinations and "missing pilots" are in practice the same thing: "Find this specific thing and interact with it". The solution in regards to the missing pilots needs to be different though since there is no existing mechanic to track things down while inside your ship yet. There is however a wave scanner aboard your SRV...so code to do something along those lines obviously exists...

I suspect that these "missing pilots" missions are shoved into the POI system at the moment since it's a quick way to get them into the game and populated the galaxy with them even if they are...*cough*..., let's say..."less than optimal" while connected to that system. The POI event itself (the destination) is fine and so is the mission that is generated on the BBS. We now need the "glue" how to get to the POI event in a more logical fashion just like was added for assassinations.

Many times when people ask/demand FD to replace a "placeholder" they actually mean that FD should add something on top of what is already there or expand some functionality.

Actually, Tinman, what I want to see come back-at least every so often-is the assassination mission where your target isn't in the system they were last seen in, but with the wrinkle that you can't find out where they've gone to until you've performed one of the new "In space" missions (like the new "Distress Call" missions). You drop out & aid a pilot in distress, & as a thank-you they'll mention having seen the person you're looking for in System X.

Another variant of this is kind of like the "branching" mission system (which I concur needs a *massive* improvement), where a contact mentions your mission target, & will give you info if you follow their wake. Usually it'll be legit, but every so often it will be a friend of the target who has decided to kill you so as to prevent you from completing your mission, sometimes it'll be a rival offering you a branching mission, & other times again it'll just be pirates luring you into a trap.

Indeed, I think all the missions could be made more interesting if-at least 25% of the time-you get rival PC's or NPC's turning up to thwart your mission somehow.
 
Actually, Tinman, what I want to see come back-at least every so often-is the assassination mission where your target isn't in the system they were last seen in, but with the wrinkle that you can't find out where they've gone to until you've performed one of the new "In space" missions (like the new "Distress Call" missions). You drop out & aid a pilot in distress, & as a thank-you they'll mention having seen the person you're looking for in System X.

Another variant of this is kind of like the "branching" mission system (which I concur needs a *massive* improvement), where a contact mentions your mission target, & will give you info if you follow their wake. Usually it'll be legit, but every so often it will be a friend of the target who has decided to kill you so as to prevent you from completing your mission, sometimes it'll be a rival offering you a branching mission, & other times again it'll just be pirates luring you into a trap.

Indeed, I think all the missions could be made more interesting if-at least 25% of the time-you get rival PC's or NPC's turning up to thwart your mission somehow.

Everything in the game can of course be improved and expanded upon. I'm not saying the assassination missions are perfect by any stretch. I am saying that they at least make sense compared to what they used to be and that the player now can actively find, interdict and attack their target instead of just having the event served to you by the game itself.

That's really a bit lame. Basically the same template as with mining contracts.
No matter if you sign the contract(s) first or collect a few occupied pods and sell them via contract(s) afterwards.
You can do it in a bulk and that alone isn't all too immersive...

Not really...mining still makes sense.

The point of the mining missions is that you should find and extract these resources somewhere (if you done it before or after you found the mission itself is actually irrelevant IMO.) Both the process of finding and extracting these resources are things you can actively affect as a player (even if I would really like to see the finding aspect heavily expanded upon...). Finding them by going to the right spots where concentration of them is higher, then maybe speed up that process by using prospector drones and finally mining/scooping them up. The resource also isn't specific like a missing pilot is.

The retrieval missions on the other hand does NOT allow me to do what they want me to do, AKA actively find something.

The reason why the "missing pilots" made this whole thing stand out so much is because they don't even specify a rough location (the space based salvage missions at least give a system as a location...still not good enough but at least something). The "missing pilot" missions just say "planet". They don't specify which one or even which star system for that matter. And even if you knew the star system and the planet in question...what are the chances of you just happening to run across the crash site by pure chance? Pretty close to zero.

We absolutely need the game to generate specific locations for missions like this and then a mechanic to find them.
 
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Frontier E2 had way more immersive missions. When you took an assassination contract you got a location and a time. You would then fly there and wait for the guy to show up, and now you had a few options; blast him on the pad, blast him as he took off, or wait for him to take off and jump, then follow him and then blast his ass in the depth of space with no one around.
 
Missions have been the three-nippled inbred of the game for so long now that I'm starting to wonder if FD actually do have some major changes to how missions and stories work in ED, but needed Horizons in and working before they can implement it for some reason. Yeah, I know, not likely, but whatever. I'm off to go get some escape pods, battle plans, black boxes and the like and then find people looking for them. Basically I'm like the intergalactic equivalent of the bloke selling knocked off watches down the pub. Well, it's a living.
 
Frontier E2 had way more immersive missions. When you took an assassination contract you got a location and a time. You would then fly there and wait for the guy to show up, and now you had a few options; blast him on the pad, blast him as he took off, or wait for him to take off and jump, then follow him and then blast his ass in the depth of space with no one around.

Time variables have been added into 1.5/Horizons.
 
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Are they not embarrassed by them?
This is what I always wonder, I mean FD clearly has some clever people working for them, surely they must be embarrassed by the current missions.

In the old MMO 'City of heroes' the community could make missions and anyone could play them and rate them. Even 99% of these, created by non-professionals, were better made than the ED ones we have. And if I had made ones to the standard that ED has, they would have been 1-starred and I'd have been embarrassed to release them - so I am amazed that professional game designers are happy to accept what we have in game at present.
 
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I think all the grievances brought up and suggestions of fixes and improvements highlighted in this thread needs to be compiled into a list by an OP.

It would be easier for people to bring up points they feel have been missed and clearer for anyone reading without having to go through pages of discussion.

I'll do that later today. Actually reading through ATM. Need to sleep.
 
I suppose this is one of the issues though - if a mission target exists for everyone (i.e. shared across instances/generated on the server) what happens if someone else <finds it/rescues it/kills it/whatever> first before you arrive? And, If the objective is shared by clients, is that not open to potential abuse? Are Frontier also waiting for other elements to be in place? If so, what? [I'm trying to think of reasons as to why the USS type mechanism has been with us for so long - the initial 5 system test had PoIs that were static in system IIRC?]

They already have this system in place - the Community Goals.
If half the missions on the BB were mini CGs then these missions could be the first person to kill ten pirates, collect some dodgy goods, find some Painite etc.
 
They already have this system in place - the Community Goals.
If half the missions on the BB were mini CGs then these missions could be the first person to kill ten pirates, collect some dodgy goods, find some Painite etc.

The likely hood of a normal mission asking multiple players to kill a specific NPC or generate the same location ID for an item I would hope to be pretty low, unless they code the game to do that on purpose sorta like matchmaking to force player conflict....
 
Well, go ahead by getting promoted with any western Military by killing innocents or try be sent out stealing or smuggling stuff, outside of being on undercover/special Missions ie. with an Intelligence agency or special forces.
Technically some indeed do it. But it's not the norm!

The norm is you'd never get such a promotion scheme.
Neither will any self-respecting government sent you out by standard to run terrorist missions and hand everyone reputation & money on a regular, daily basis.

Doesn't work. It's ridiculous.

So unless you consider the Federation, Empire and every single damn Faction a Terrorist organization... it does make no sense.

Plus, from a pure gameplay perspective :
If all Factions act the exact same (Unfettered interdict more often, but that's it) - what's the point of choosing to support one? It suddenly becomes an entirely arbitrary choice. It becomes meaningless.
So all of a sudden, what's the point of the whole BGS then? It becomes a meaningless mechanic to move generic and replacable Text Strings around the bubble.
Intended consequence? I don't think so.

PS.
I've received alot of promotions during my >20years of service. Not once was I in any position to be rewarded for criminal activity. Not once. Had I done any - I'd have been demoted and depending on the crime sent to prison.
That's how it works 99.99999% of all time.

PPS.
Go ahead and ask your Investment broker if he has somebody you could kill for him... for some Reputation and money.
Just watch his face when you ask that question with a serious face.
Or EMail a corporation with the same question and witness their reaction to it.

Now with Unfettered Factions and (to some extent) Freeman and Dictatorships, I can get onboard with them taking from the entire pool of Missions.
But others clearly should not - as they're judged not by the small Ship Panel Text field describing what they supposedly do... but by what they really do. And that's where the Bulletin Missions come in.

Heck I don't know where you live.
But where I live, I don't enter a store of a corporation or a brokerage... and see Terrorist "job offers" to total strangers *lol*

Bottom line : there are no "good guys" left ever since V1.3 hit.
So what is a "good guy" Player supposed to do then? No such option exists, outside of staying Clean and thinking Whiskey Tango Fortrott anytime I view a Bulletin Board.
I can't build my own Outpost & Faction with own Filters for Bulletin Missions to get my "good guys".

First off, thank you for your service.

Now, while you were in the service, you probably weren't tasked with anything like we get in Elite Dangerous for 1 very simple reason, you were part of the organization itself.

WE, the players in Elite Dangerous, are not part of the Federal, Imperial of Alliance Navies, we're members of the Pilots Federation, a neutral and beholden to none organization that isn't part of the Federation, Empire or Alliance at all, it is outside of them, it is outside of every single faction, power and group inside the Elite universe. THIS is the group we're members of, we're neutral, outsiders, not part of the Chain of Command of any power, government, faction, religious group, terrorist cell or even the local Neighborhood Watch.

We're independent mercs open to offers from any and all for the work they can't be seen to be doing, no ties to the people who hire us at all, officially at any rate, because that is what being a member of the Pilots Federation makes of us. We're those people our own governments use right now, today, to do jobs behind the scenes that they don't want anyone to know they were behind. Accidents happen, people vanish, goods get stolen, stuff breaks, every day, all over the planet, and it's not an accident, it's not a random act of some deity, it's a directed action that some government or corporation or someone with money had committed. This is reality, there's always someone outside the CoC who can be used to get things done to keep the Powers That Be clear and clean of those things they shouldn't be doing. I'm not talking about SEALs or military people tasked with these jobs, I'm talking about outsiders, might be ex-military/intel, might be someone without any background at all, doesn't matter, they exist and they do these things every single day.

Take hackers for example, we KNOW there's groups that work for the various world powers, but not a single one of them works FOR them directly, they do things to help those powers for their own reasons, many of which are purely monetary reasons. The US, China, Russia, Britain, France, etc, etc, they all pay for people to do these things covertly, and that's what is going on in Elite Dangerous. Those missions YOU see on the BB, they aren't all generic and broadcast to EVERYONE who logs in, you will see specific jobs that only you will see, no one else, private communiques for your eyes only, offering you money to go kill someone, steal something, whatever the job may be, only YOU see that job.

And what ever gave you the idea that any of the big powers, or little ones for that matter, in the Elite universe were kind, caring and all cuddly? HOW did Hudson become President of the Federation? ANOTHER hyperspace accident, one that other people died while investigating, others vanished while doing so, and Hudson is a hawk, very aggressive, all too ready and happy to use the military might of the Federation, he is NOT a nice guy, he may not kick puppies himself, but you can bet he pays people to do it, in front of kids, the kids of his opponents undoubtedly. The Empire has slavery, and you think they are a nice place not above paying someone off the books to kill someone they don't like? The Alliance...they worked WITH the Thargoids during the War with them, and you think they aren't above a little black ops wetwork off the books as well? Sirius Corp, you really think they have even the slightest bit of doubt when it comes to offing a competitor?

Elite's universe is a very dark and dystopian place, it's not a utopia by any means, life is cheap, those in power will do what it takes to stay in power, whatever that is. And there's plenty of people more than willing to be paid nicely for ignoring moral and ethical issues about who should or shouldn't die, or why, or running slaves, drugs and whatever else is asked of them, as long as the price is right. You don't want to do it, don't, simple as that. Navy Aux missions vary, you don't HAVE to take the wetwork missions they offer, there are always other missions for naval rank that won't compromise your morals, just move to another station, see another recruiter in other words, as that's who gives us the Naval jobs, recruiters, probably intel people, and the jobs they offer us aren't on the books, ever. We aren't members of the Navy, our ranks aren't actual military ranks, they are honorary titles showing we've given help to the Navy in question in the past enough times to be considered a valuable asset, but that is ALL we are, an asset for them to use as they see fit.
 
My main gripe is the sheer quantity of illegal missions from Like, Democratic Federation factions.... I ... It's so immersion breaking. The bulletin board is freakin public! Y U DO DAT!?
 
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