FD, still after all this time. Missions still make no sense.

If we are gonna complain about something...

------------------

"A pilot has gone missing! Please bring him/her back!"

"I'm on it! Where should I look?"


"A planet?"

"Care to be a bit more specific? There's quite a lot of them you know."

"No."

"Ehm...ok...I'll try my best then I guess..."

*lifts off from the planetary starport and flies 3 km to the east*

"Hey! There is a POI here...I wonder what that might be!?"
"How about that! The pilot I was looking for!"
"Well...actually not THE pilot, just A pilot, but nevermind...that doesn't seem to matter..."

:D

-----------
Come on FD! If you get a mission to retrieve a specific item...just spawn that location at a specific location when you enter the system in question. Then give us something similar to the SRV wave scanner to track down that POI, doesn't matter if it's in space or down on a planet. When we get close enough it appears as a signal source/POI as usual and the current game mechanics takes over.

The whole point of these salvage/retrieval missions is to find things. At the moment we aren't finding them...instead they are being delivered to us by the game itself by spawning right were we happen to be.

These type of missions are your biggest "sin" right now IMO. Many of the others a in much better shape.

Assassinating someone or killing pirates/bountyhunters/traders still allows you to actively find them (by chosing the right locations to search or interdicting them) and kill them.

Trade missions obviously works in terms of gameplay.

Mining missions also work since you can still make informed choices where to look for the resources wanted and then actively mine these.

Taking out generators or retrieving information from nodes in settlements in Horizons is also fine.

And so on...

Retrieval missions are not fine...

This bares repeating, over and over again, till someone at Frontier gets the message.
 
I you get hired by some shady representative from a real world government to kill someone in their country you would still get wanted, wouldn't you? ;) Don't see a major problem here really...

If we are gonna complain about something...

------------------

"A pilot has gone missing! Please bring him/her back!"

"I'm on it! Where should I look?"


"A planet?"

"Care to be a bit more specific? There's quite a lot of them you know."

"No."

"Ehm...ok...I'll try my best then I guess..."

*lifts off from the planetary starport and flies 3 km to the east*

"Hey! There is a POI here...I wonder what that might be!?"
"How about that! The pilot I was looking for!"
"Well...actually not THE pilot, just A pilot, but nevermind...that doesn't seem to matter..."

:D

-----------
Come on FD! If you get a mission to retrieve a specific item...just spawn that location at a specific location when you enter the system in question. Then give us something similar to the SRV wave scanner to track down that POI, doesn't matter if it's in space or down on a planet. When we get close enough it appears as a signal source/POI as usual and the current game mechanics takes over.

The whole point of these salvage/retrieval missions is to find things. At the moment we aren't finding them...instead they are being delivered to us by the game itself by spawning right were we happen to be.

These type of missions are your biggest "sin" right now IMO. Many of the others a in much better shape.

Assassinating someone or killing pirates/bountyhunters/traders still allows you to actively find them (by chosing the right locations to search or interdicting them) and kill them.

Trade missions obviously works in terms of gameplay.

Mining missions also work since you can still make informed choices where to look for the resources wanted and then actively mine these.

Taking out generators or retrieving information from nodes in settlements in Horizons is also fine.

And so on...

Retrieval missions are not fine...
Over and over again.

Ydiss directed me to This post here by Sandro that to my mind at least shows some dev response. Although I would carry on shouting it at them until I see some dawning comprehension of the whole big issue reflected in a post by FD, somewhere. I suppose it has gotten to me that what I thought was really a temporary placeholder due to quick release that is really not suited to purpose and I would not have expected of FD, seems to have become standard procedure.

And again...

The whole point of these salvage/retrieval missions is to find things. At the moment we aren't finding them...instead they are being delivered to us by the game itself by spawning right were we happen to be.....


:)
 
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"Hey! There is a POI here...I wonder what that might be!?"
"How about that! The pilot I was looking for!"
"Well...actually not THE pilot, just A pilot, but nevermind...that doesn't seem to matter..."

Especially, when they already have a "random NPC name generator", but somehow all downed pilots are interchangeable.
Why not assign a pilot name to these pods? Seems to be a really easy thing to do...

Also, if you pick a pod that you don't have a mission for - there already is a mechanism for picking missions with loot.
 
This bares repeating, over and over again, till someone at Frontier gets the message.

Over and over again.

Ydiss directed me to This post here by Sandro that to my mind at least shows some dev response. Although I would carry on shouting it at them until I see some dawning comprehension of the whole big issue reflected in a post by FD, somewhere. I suppose it has gotten to me that what I thought was really a temporary placeholder due to quick release that is really not suited to purpose and I would not have expected of FD, seems to have become standard procedure.

And again...



:)

There is a Reddit AMA coming up next week and the launch livestream...I'm certainly going to try to get the message across. Everyone are welcome to join in! :D

(As long as people stay polite that is...;))
 
SOME of the critics of the mission systems are on target, like Tinman, if we get a planetary mission to fix Jon D who's ship crashed, we should get an idea of WHERE to look, unless there's nothing on the planet or near it that would have picked up the fact that the ship crashed, in which case, WHY are we going to rescue someone you didn't know crashed? THAT is messed up, definitely.

As for many of the other complaints, are you folks even remotely aware of how governments work(and corps, large groups, and so on), any slightest clue beyond 'those guys suggest stuff and that guy ok it'? Are you all fresh out of school and naive, having been raised in a bomb shelter and educated via Archie comics? If that's not the case, then what's the problem, why are you so confused?

Pick a government, ANY one, in the world today, including the Vatican, and you can be sure that they've hired someone to do something illegal, immoral and probably even had someone kick a puppy just because as well. Governments need things done sometimes that they can't do for various reasons, PR, morality, legality, ethics, take your pick, but said thing NEEDS to be done for the security of the state, so they find someone to do it who won't trace back to them. Corps, religious groups, even the Girl Scouts for pity's sake, do this, always have. And often, before giving someone the job to kick a puppy, they need to make sure that that someone is trust worthy, so they give them jobs to prove it. Like stealing something and bringing it to them, killing someone that also works for them, and so on. Those are tests to answer the question: are you, the person they are talking to, actually willing to do what they want, without question, and without moral or ethical qualms getting in the way, and, most importantly, KEEPING YOUR MOUTH SHUT ABOUT IT!

Do they always make sense? No, they don't, but that's part of the testing, YOU aren't supposed to ask questions, YOU are supposed to do what they ask, that's it.

This goes for the minor factions, major factions and the naval forces, WE aren't part of those groups, remember? We're members of the Pilots Federation, we're independent, neutral, outsiders, so they use us to do things they need done that they can't do themselves. And they'll test us because we ARE outsiders, we aren't part of their orgs, so they don't know us.

It's pretty simple and basic, especially if you take a look at the lore of the universe Elite is set in, and have even the slightest knowledge about how things work in our own, and have since before recorded history. Issues like Tinman brings up, being told to rescue someone but NO info on where they might be, that's a screw up. Being asked to kill someone that works for the org asking, being offered stupid money for stealing cheap stuff, being asked to kick a puppy, perfectly within the bounds of reality when dealing with powerful power who want to test you.
 
I think the problem is their memory has the persistence of a POI ;)

What type?

POIs like stations, landable settlements, conflict zones, resource extraction sites, nav beacons and so on that ARE persistent for all players in the galaxy no matter how you play?

Now now...what did I say about being polite. ;)

If people want to point out issues with specific aspects of the game then go ahead. However, I think that calling them different versions of "stupid" or "incompetent" as I've seen in quite a few threads lately isn't going to help. First of all it's simply not true since if it was then this forum would be empty due to noone playing the game and I seriously doubt that they don't know about pretty much everything people bring up. There are 100+ people working on this game...they know.

Why certain things that seems obvious haven't been done yet us of course a mystery and I would appreciate some insight about why things like specific locations for retrivial missions isn't in yet. Sorry, but I can't accept that whoever sat down and made the missing pilot missions didn't think the same thing as I (and others) have pointed out already. This simply must be placeholder...a placeholder that with these new planetary missions simply must get fixed now.
 
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Deleted member 38366

D
As for many of the other complaints, are you folks even remotely aware of how governments work(and corps, large groups, and so on), any slightest clue beyond 'those guys suggest stuff and that guy ok it'? Are you all fresh out of school and naive, having been raised in a bomb shelter and educated via Archie comics? If that's not the case, then what's the problem, why are you so confused?

Pick a government, ANY one, in the world today, including the Vatican, and you can be sure that they've hired someone to do something illegal, immoral and probably even had someone kick a puppy just because as well. Governments need things done sometimes that they can't do for various reasons, PR, morality, legality, ethics, take your pick, but said thing NEEDS to be done for the security of the state, so they find someone to do it who won't trace back to them. Corps, religious groups, even the Girl Scouts for pity's sake, do this, always have. And often, before giving someone the job to kick a puppy, they need to make sure that that someone is trust worthy, so they give them jobs to prove it. Like stealing something and bringing it to them, killing someone that also works for them, and so on. Those are tests to answer the question: are you, the person they are talking to, actually willing to do what they want, without question, and without moral or ethical qualms getting in the way, and, most importantly, KEEPING YOUR MOUTH SHUT ABOUT IT!

Do they always make sense? No, they don't, but that's part of the testing, YOU aren't supposed to ask questions, YOU are supposed to do what they ask, that's it.

This goes for the minor factions, major factions and the naval forces, WE aren't part of those groups, remember? We're members of the Pilots Federation, we're independent, neutral, outsiders, so they use us to do things they need done that they can't do themselves. And they'll test us because we ARE outsiders, we aren't part of their orgs, so they don't know us.

It's pretty simple and basic, especially if you take a look at the lore of the universe Elite is set in, and have even the slightest knowledge about how things work in our own, and have since before recorded history. Issues like Tinman brings up, being told to rescue someone but NO info on where they might be, that's a screw up. Being asked to kill someone that works for the org asking, being offered stupid money for stealing cheap stuff, being asked to kick a puppy, perfectly within the bounds of reality when dealing with powerful power who want to test you.

Well, go ahead by getting promoted with any western Military by killing innocents or try be sent out stealing or smuggling stuff, outside of being on undercover/special Missions ie. with an Intelligence agency or special forces.
Technically some indeed do it. But it's not the norm!

The norm is you'd never get such a promotion scheme.
Neither will any self-respecting government sent you out by standard to run terrorist missions and hand everyone reputation & money on a regular, daily basis.

Doesn't work. It's ridiculous.

So unless you consider the Federation, Empire and every single damn Faction a Terrorist organization... it does make no sense.

Plus, from a pure gameplay perspective :
If all Factions act the exact same (Unfettered interdict more often, but that's it) - what's the point of choosing to support one? It suddenly becomes an entirely arbitrary choice. It becomes meaningless.
So all of a sudden, what's the point of the whole BGS then? It becomes a meaningless mechanic to move generic and replacable Text Strings around the bubble.
Intended consequence? I don't think so.

PS.
I've received alot of promotions during my >20years of service. Not once was I in any position to be rewarded for criminal activity. Not once. Had I done any - I'd have been demoted and depending on the crime sent to prison.
That's how it works 99.99999% of all time.

PPS.
Go ahead and ask your Investment broker if he has somebody you could kill for him... for some Reputation and money.
Just watch his face when you ask that question with a serious face.
Or EMail a corporation with the same question and witness their reaction to it.

Now with Unfettered Factions and (to some extent) Freeman and Dictatorships, I can get onboard with them taking from the entire pool of Missions.
But others clearly should not - as they're judged not by the small Ship Panel Text field describing what they supposedly do... but by what they really do. And that's where the Bulletin Missions come in.

Heck I don't know where you live.
But where I live, I don't enter a store of a corporation or a brokerage... and see Terrorist "job offers" to total strangers *lol*

Bottom line : there are no "good guys" left ever since V1.3 hit.
So what is a "good guy" Player supposed to do then? No such option exists, outside of staying Clean and thinking Whiskey Tango Fortrott anytime I view a Bulletin Board.
I can't build my own Outpost & Faction with own Filters for Bulletin Missions to get my "good guys".
 
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What type?

POIs like stations, landable settlements, conflict zones, resource extraction sites, nav beacons and so on that ARE persistent for all players in the galaxy no matter how you play?

Now now...what did I say about being polite. ;)

If people want to point out issues with specific aspects of the game then go ahead. However, I think that calling them different versions of "stupid" or "incompetent" as I've seen in quite a few threads lately isn't going to help. First of all it's simply not true since if it was then this forum would be empty due to noone playing the game and I seriously doubt that they don't know about pretty much everything people bring up. There are 100+ people working on this game...they know.

Why certain things that seems obvious haven't been done yet us of course a mystery and I would appreciate some insight about why things like specific locations for retrivial missions isn't in yet. Sorry, but I can't accept that whoever sat down and made the missing pilot missions didn't think the same thing as I (and others) have pointed out already. This simply must be placeholder...a placeholder that with these new planetary missions simply must get fixed now.
I agree that FD must have thought of these things - and indeed discussed them at meetings etc.
One of the main reasons I have become a habitual criticiser on these forums though, is that so many features, like the USS system or the way missions work, or exploration, or the way NPC's work by strangely different physical laws than us players, or have infinite ammo, etc etc, I was CONVINCED totally that those things were placeholder and repeated it over and over in the early days. But I was wrong. I really hope you are right Tinman
 
the thing about placeholders is they are really only placeholders if FD confirm it or if FD replace them, as neither has happened with any of season ones so called placeholders its fair to assume that seeing them being reused in season two merely confirms what we didn't know about them in the first place :) conclusion, they are what they are and will be.
 
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What type?
POIs like stations, landable settlements, conflict zones, resource extraction sites, nav beacons and so on that ARE persistent for all players in the galaxy no matter how you play?

I suppose this is one of the issues though - if a mission target exists for everyone (i.e. shared across instances/generated on the server) what happens if someone else <finds it/rescues it/kills it/whatever> first before you arrive? And, If the objective is shared by clients, is that not open to potential abuse? Are Frontier also waiting for other elements to be in place? If so, what? [I'm trying to think of reasons as to why the USS type mechanism has been with us for so long - the initial 5 system test had PoIs that were static in system IIRC?]
 
>Assasination mission for dominant faction that has multi system control. (Njikan Jet Dynamic Industry: Fed ally)

> only kill target

>wanted status in all their systems


smh

Say thank you to FD for tacking on PowerFail instead of developing the core game.
 
the thing about placeholders is they are really only placeholders if FD confirm it or if FD replace them, as neither has happened with any of season ones so called placeholders its fair to assume that seeing them being reused in season two merely confirms what we didn't know about them in the first place :) conclusion, they are what they are and will be.

I did form my idea of what was placeholder from my time in the DDF, along with lots of interaction with the forums in the early days, Kickstarter discussions, AMA's, dev Diaries, etc. I have had to completely re-evaluate my placeholder idea from watching the released game evolve in a different direction, but without feedback from FD it is a frustrating combination of guesswork and hope.
 
the thing about placeholders is they are really only placeholders if FD confirm it or if FD replace them, as neither has happened with any of season ones so called placeholders its fair to assume that seeing them being reused in season two merely confirms what we didn't know about them in the first place :) conclusion, they are what they are and will be.

Actually...logically they are placeholders if they are placeholders. FD doesn't have to confirm anything or replace them for that to be true. ;)

Also, in many cases these placeholders are both placeholders AND "final". It all depends on what they are applied too.

The USS/POI system is as an example of something that always going to be around simply because it's a mechanic used to populate the world around you with stuff to interact with. There isn't anything wrong with this system in itself. Something similar is used in pretty much all open world games to create emergent gameplay with random encounters. Some things makes less sense to make use of it though. Early in the year this was the only way to complete assassination missions for example by getting a mission from the BBS and finding a random USS were your target suddenly was. Later they refined these type of missions so that you instead could find your target in supercruise, interdict and take it out which made much more sense. The code that handled the generation of the mission on the BBS was probably the same more or less as before the change and the event when you come across your target in real space and fought it was also pretty much the same. The "glue" in between these two states was however added by spawning the target in supercruise and therefore hooking that into the interdiction mechanic. This allowed you to actively find the target and hunt it down.

These assassination missions are actually a perfect parallel to the "missing pilots" and and example of something that was fixed in Season 1 (and there are more examples). Both assassinations and "missing pilots" are in practice the same thing: "Find this specific thing and interact with it". The solution in regards to the missing pilots needs to be different though since there is no existing mechanic to track things down while inside your ship yet. There is however a wave scanner aboard your SRV...so code to do something along those lines obviously exists...

I suspect that these "missing pilots" missions are shoved into the POI system at the moment since it's a quick way to get them into the game and populated the galaxy with them even if they are...*cough*..., let's say..."less than optimal" while connected to that system. The POI event itself (the destination) is fine and so is the mission that is generated on the BBS. We now need the "glue" how to get to the POI event in a more logical fashion just like was added for assassinations.

Many times when people ask/demand FD to replace a "placeholder" they actually mean that FD should add something on top of what is already there or expand some functionality.
 
I've had an NPC guy called Rob following me round for the last 2 weeks. He keeps telling me how hard to track down I am, yet never fails to find me within 2 jumps of me logging on each day.

I stacked a few pirate kill missions including a 3 week one that I couldn't be bothered to finish. If you stack a dozen and don't do them straight away, you get a flurry of half a dozen low wakes 3 seconds after you jump each time. Looks utterly ridiculous. Why didn't they just program a set limit of times they can give counter mission offers? Why make these bare bone place holder missions so skeletal in nature? Are they not embarrassed by them?

Most ridiculous for me is that all missions are in separate star systems! Imagine, you go to visit london and all jobs you can find is "go to china and kill pirates", etc... and if you want actualy do some missions in 'London' area... you have to look for them in china... I hate it!

Pretty much this for me. Why go to such lengths to have accurate stars and planet moon surfaces... and be so obtusely dumb on anything else game play related.
 
The guys who recently designed the beta-only community-goals clearly showed how it has to work in the future to keep players playing the game. Planetary landings is a good thing, but we need depth depth depth, and we need it as soon as possible.
 
I've had an NPC guy called Rob following me round for the last 2 weeks. He keeps telling me how hard to track down I am, yet never fails to find me within 2 jumps of me logging on each day.

I stacked a few pirate kill missions including a 3 week one that I couldn't be bothered to finish. If you stack a dozen and don't do them straight away, you get a flurry of half a dozen low wakes 3 seconds after you jump each time. Looks utterly ridiculous. Why didn't they just program a set limit of times they can give counter mission offers? Why make these bare bone place holder missions so skeletal in nature? Are they not embarrassed by them?

at least they do not spawn in USS anymore. chat spam is the one thing... but meeting those alternative (and ALWAYS worse paying) mission endings NPCs in half of the USS you drop in to find your mission goal, just to override your mission without asking for confirmation was even more anoying.

but, i totally agree with the whole topic... mission design is beyond common sense
 
I think all the grievances brought up and suggestions of fixes and improvements highlighted in this thread needs to be compiled into a list by an OP.

It would be easier for people to bring up points they feel have been missed and clearer for anyone reading without having to go through pages of discussion.
 
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