FDev: Credit rebalancing incoming, "more reward for higher risk" activities

That's what being part of the 1% is all about, what are you complaining about? Enjoy your largesse. I'm sorry man but if you're looking for someone to agree with complaints about being rich and privileged, you're going to be waiting a long time. After becoming wealthy over this last year and getting a FC, my very next instinct is to help others get rich as well and spread my good fortune.

The problem is you are thinking this game is solely about the next ship, the next gun, the next activity on the horizon, and in any game that builds a community, there will always be the new but poor, the average but well to do, and the rich and powerful, that's life. The question is what you do with your station or not.

I for one completely agree with that other poster's assessment, pulling up the ladder and making it harder for people now at this point will just drive the divide between rich and poor players even further. Because the rich are already rich, they have what they want for the most part, even if they pick up a few ships here or there, they've pretty much set themselves up (or at least) should have with the majority of what they need to play this game. This is the reason why I made a point to buy several ships especially the top tier ones for this exact reason if I need an injection of capital to overcome some sort of price correction.

I love how Fdev just swings the nerfbat at mining and calls it day instead of focusing on the professions that have specifically asked for a BUFF TO THEIR PROFESSIONS not a nerf to other professions to make them seem "less poor"

I always find it amusing when people want Firefly in game form for ED, with the romanticized flying about, but the same people forget the struggle of keeping that rust bucket flying.

Without struggle there is no game, its just NMS in serious trousers. I mean, when was the last time you lost money on a bad deal, or a deal went bad and you had to fork out on repairs? The answer is never because all the areas that should cost money are irrelevant.
 
Remember when making your 1st million was a big thing to you , now days people use cash instead of toilet paper =-P
What's your point? Earning potential follows a logarithmic curve, so of course the first million's difficulty curve will be steep. This is precisely why every entrepreneur in the world says "earning your first million is the hardest". Because you can then use your money to invest in tools to make the next millions easier, then those millions, invest to make the next easier and so on. Eventually earning 10s of millions becomes standard, then 100s of millions and so on. That's life, it's what happens when you get proficient at something and can afford the tools to do it expertly.
 
I always find it amusing when people want Firefly in game form for ED, with the romanticized flying about, but the same people forget the struggle of keeping that rust bucket flying.

Without struggle there is no game, its just NMS in serious trousers. I mean, when was the last time you lost money on a bad deal, or a deal went bad and you had to fork out on repairs? The answer is never because all the areas that should cost money are irrelevant.

I lost money this week when Fdev nerfed mining. In fact it seems like almost every time I lose the most amount of money, Fdev is involved.
 
I lost money this week when Fdev nerfed mining.

No you did not. You lost potential money. I'm talking about trading where you risk going into an anarchy system and get shot up, the trading not covering the profit. Thats loss. All you did was make less money.
 
And it's rather interesting how Fdev decides to implement changes to mining when half of mining as a profession doesn't work right now to make sure those numbers are even close to accurate.
I may go out and do a little mining while in Colonia next week - just to see if there are any notable changes... they will have to be obvious as an hour is all I'll give :)
 
No you did not. You lost potential money. I'm talking about trading where you risk going into an anarchy system and get shot up, the trading not covering the profit. Thats loss. All you did was make less money.

Well firstly I don't do stupid things like that, and when I want to take a risk, I research the hell out of it and practice a few times on smaller amounts to make sure it's even worth it. And if I need a crew or wing mates, I go out and get them. What you're describing isn't loss from gameplay, that's loss from just being stupid.

And yes, being forced to make LESS money is LOSS, my time has value and I don't appreciate Fdev just deciding to change that value because they can't make up their damn minds on how to design the economy for this game.
 
Well firstly I don't do stupid things like that, and when I want to take a risk, I research the hell out of it and practice a few times on smaller amounts to make sure it's even worth it. And if I need a crew or wing mates, I go out and get them. What you're describing isn't loss from gameplay, that's loss from just being stupid.

Its a hypothetical example which should illustrate actually seeing a negative number appear from having to repair your ship. Its funny seeing everyone laughing at flying in at 1% hull, when damage should be expensive to repair and make you approach things differently.

And yes, being forced to make LESS money is LOSS, my time has value and I don't appreciate Fdev just deciding to change that value because they can't make up their damn minds on how to design the economy for this game.

No, you don't get the difference at all. Does your balance go down (i.e. money subtracted) meaningfully after that time playing? Or is it just going up more slowly?
 
Well firstly I don't do stupid things like that, and when I want to take a risk, I research the hell out of it and practice a few times on smaller amounts to make sure it's even worth it. And if I need a crew or wing mates, I go out and get them. What you're describing isn't loss from gameplay, that's loss from just being stupid.

And yes, being forced to make LESS money is LOSS, my time has value and I don't appreciate Fdev just deciding to change that value because they can't make up their damn minds on how to design the economy for this game.
Setting aside the "loss" definition debate, your point is on the mark IMO. While I think gaining a fleet carrier might be nice, I have neither the time or desire to make ED a second career in order to obtain one.
 
No, you don't get the difference at all. Does your balance go down (i.e. money subtracted) meaningfully after that time playing? Or is it just going up more slowly?
Maybe, as you and me probably don't play for Cr/Hr, perceived loss of credits because of a change is unimportant (otherwise I'd be weeping each time I dropped into the Black Market in stations!), but for those who put earnings first such a perceived loss may appear as Frontier mounting an attack on their playstyle?
 
Its a hypothetical example which should illustrate actually seeing a negative number appear from having to repair your ship. Its funny seeing everyone laughing at flying in at 1% hull, when damage should be expensive to repair and make you approach things differently.
Hypothetical or not, it's a poor example of what you're trying to say. If someone gets blown up, it's because of several failures and mistakes on their part regardless of how much money they have in the bank. Generally speaking if you're a person who is getting blown up all the time, your skill level is probably pretty bad and thus you're not rich to begin with. Conversely, when you skill level goes up where you can do X activity over and over without getting blown up, you naturally will make more money.

So why are you wanting to penalize a player for being good at the game? Because that's what this is, players are TOO good at mining, so we must punish them by making them earn less money. Fdev tried to do it by 'fixing' the distribution rates and hotspots, but the miners were just too good, they figured it out. So now Fdev is at it again, this time with direct price controls. This is what they do in communist countries btw.

No, you don't get the difference at all. Does your balance go down (i.e. money subtracted) meaningfully after that time playing? Or is it just going up more slowly?
I get it just fine, I simply disagree with you. My time has value, even Fdev has said "We value the players time.", meaning that when I mine, I know I should be earning X amount of credits per sec, per min, per hour. The reason I bought a FC, other then the fact that I wanted one, was also because I realized how much time was spent traveling to the sale system and selling off my one cargohold of ore. All that turn around time cuts into my credits per hour. Having a fleet carrier means I can minimize that time and get back to mining, and also hold that ore till I feel like selling it. Because I decided to invest in one knowing that it will improve the earnings rate and return on the investment.

Now I'm being penalized because I'm TOO good, I'm making TOO much money, TOO fast because Fdev decided so. Instead of doing what people have asked which is the other professions being BUFFED. I watched all the videos, the charts, and requests, they want a buff to their profession first and foremost, not a penalization to mining.

Because bringing down my earnings potential doesn't make a combat pilot LESS poor. Not unless Fdev is going to go full "Great Reset" and redistribute some wealth too.
 
Maybe, as you and me probably don't play for Cr/Hr, perceived loss of credits because of a change is unimportant (otherwise I'd be weeping each time I dropped into the Black Market in stations!), but for those who put earnings first such a perceived loss may appear as Frontier mounting an attack on their playstyle?

If I'm going to be blunt, its that earnings first players will never 'lose', just the rate of x increse is slower- however credit inflation has destroyed any semblance of nuanced gameplay and led to the need for monstrous money sinks instead, with FCs. Features such as Powerplay bonuses, repairs, flying craftsmanship / risk taking, rearming costs, fuel considerations, ship choice / modules are made totally pointless because credits are too plentiful too quickly. FD made this mess and frankly there is no way out other than making everything equally easy to get money for.
 
Setting aside the "loss" definition debate, your point is on the mark IMO. While I think gaining a fleet carrier might be nice, I have neither the time or desire to make ED a second career in order to obtain one.
I developed a really good strategy actually on how to get one where you would only have to "make it a career" for a short time, about a month, and then you can basically coast, only having to mine once every 5 months to earn upkeep.

I am going to have to refine the strategy now to account for the new prices.
 
Hypothetical or not, it's a poor example of what you're trying to say. If someone gets blown up, it's because of several failures and mistakes on their part regardless of how much money they have in the bank. Generally speaking if you're a person who is getting blown up all the time, your skill level is probably pretty bad and thus you're not rich to begin with. Conversely, when you skill level goes up where you can do X activity over and over without getting blown up, you naturally will make more money.

The point is repairs and rebuys are too cheap to be meaningful so your game is just a load of busywork.

So why are you wanting to penalize a player for being good at the game? Because that's what this is, players are TOO good at mining, so we must punish them by making them earn less money. Fdev tried to do it by 'fixing' the distribution rates and hotspots, but the miners were just too good, they figured it out. So now Fdev is at it again, this time with direct price controls. This is what they do in communist countries btw.

Sorry, what skill is there in sitting blasting a rock over and over?

I get it just fine, I simply disagree with you. My time has value, even Fdev has said "We value the players time.", meaning that when I mine, I know I should be earning X amount of credits per sec, per min, per hour. The reason I bought a FC, other then the fact that I wanted one, was also because I realized how much time was spent traveling to the sale system and selling off my one cargohold of ore. All that turn around time cuts into my credits per hour. Having a fleet carrier means I can minimize that time and get back to mining, and also hold that ore till I feel like selling it. Because I decided to invest in one knowing that it will improve the earnings rate and return on the investment.

Now I'm being penalized because I'm TOO good, I'm making TOO much money, TOO fast because Fdev decided so. Instead of doing what people have asked which is the other professions being BUFFED. I watched all the videos, the charts, and requests, they want a buff to their profession first and foremost, not a penalization to mining.

Because bringing down my earnings potential doesn't make a combat pilot LESS poor. Not unless Fdev is going to go full "Great Reset" and redistribute some wealth too.

Time has value- I just value having to think about risk v reward more while you blast stones.
 
Maybe, as you and me probably don't play for Cr/Hr, perceived loss of credits because of a change is unimportant (otherwise I'd be weeping each time I dropped into the Black Market in stations!), but for those who put earnings first such a perceived loss may appear as Frontier mounting an attack on their playstyle?
What it is, is Fdev saying "Ok here are the rules, and you can do pretty much you're own thing, but stay inside the lines, don't cheat." So you learn the heck out of the system and come up with a winning strategy, then Fdev comes back and says "We've decided, that you're making too much money, and you've gotten too good at the system we've designed, so we're now changing the rules so you do worse, because of reasons."

To which I'm left with really? Are we going to be that petty? Or as some have suggested, this has to do with all the billions made with "The Egg-spoit" in which now I'm really ticked because I'm being penalized for NOT cheating.
 
If I'm going to be blunt, its that earnings first players will never 'lose', just the rate of x increse is slower- however credit inflation has destroyed any semblance of nuanced gameplay and led to the need for monstrous money sinks instead, with FCs. Features such as Powerplay bonuses, repairs, flying craftsmanship / risk taking, rearming costs, fuel considerations, ship choice / modules are made totally pointless because credits are too plentiful too quickly. FD made this mess and frankly there is no way out other than making everything equally easy to get money for.
Being selective...

FC's are not money sinks - in truth they make it far too easy to make eye-watering amounts of credits very quickly (but very slowly if aiming to buy a 2nd one...) with a little thought :)
Personally: I amalgamated the assets of 3 accounts to buy a FC - I'm not a miner and piracy & outright stealing is more along my interests, but traditionally are notoriously unpredictable for earnings 🤷‍♂️

But, I agree completely with lower prices only meaning a perceived loss... something that leading pretty much 'a life of crime' in-game is always a given... If I played honestly...
 
Being selective...

FC's are not money sinks - in truth they make it far too easy to make eye-watering amounts of credits very quickly (but very slowly if aiming to buy a 2nd one...) with a little thought :)
Personally: I amalgamated the assets of 3 accounts to buy a FC - I'm not a miner and piracy & outright stealing is more along my interests, but traditionally are notoriously unpredictable for earnings 🤷‍♂️

But, I agree completely with lower prices only meaning a perceived loss... something that leading pretty much 'a life of crime' in-game is always a given... If I played honestly...

What I'd love to see is that crime pays like mining does today, but, the penalties and restrictions make it hard work. Legal methods of money making are slow but steady, modified by risk (so flying a biowaste haul in Sol pays peanuts when shipping gold to an anarchy system). But on top of that you have co-dependent issues of NPC difficulty and underlying nav / SC / drop issues. At least then you have the impetus to get rich or die trying.
 
The point is repairs and rebuys are too cheap to be meaningful so your game is just a load of busywork.

Then increase repair costs, don't penalize me because I DON'T get blown up and DON'T do stupid things.

Sorry, what skill is there in sitting blasting a rock over and over?

Clearly, you haven't really gotten into mining, otherwise, you would not even ask that question. The skill of working within the time limits of drones, probe a rock, laser it, let the collectors start picking up and while that's happening, probe the next and the next, so you are two or three rocks ahead planning out your route through the belt. And then there is surface, subsurface and core mining that require you actual twitch skills and knowing how to fly your ship so you don't suicide your limpets. And when you have 6-9 limpets running collections, you better have your next rock ready after about 30 seconds because your limpets are going to be done by then.

Mining like any other profession has various levels of proficiency, if you're just sitting there slow boating and shooting a rock and using one maybe two limpets to pick up fragments, you're not making any amount of money that would be worthy of a nerf.


Time has value- I just value having to think about risk v reward more while you blast stones.

And you are entitled to that opinion, I respectfully disagree.
 
Being selective...

FC's are not money sinks - in truth they make it far too easy to make eye-watering amounts of credits very quickly (but very slowly if aiming to buy a 2nd one...) with a little thought :)
Personally: I amalgamated the assets of 3 accounts to buy a FC - I'm not a miner and piracy & outright stealing is more along my interests, but traditionally are notoriously unpredictable for earnings 🤷‍♂️

But, I agree completely with lower prices only meaning a perceived loss... something that leading pretty much 'a life of crime' in-game is always a given... If I played honestly...
A man who is honest about his dishonesty. You have my respect sir, o7
 
What I'd love to see is that crime pays like mining does today, but, the penalties and restrictions make it hard work. Legal methods of money making are slow but steady, modified by risk (so flying a biowaste haul in Sol pays peanuts when shipping gold to an anarchy system). But on top of that you have co-dependent issues of NPC difficulty and underlying nav / SC / drop issues. At least then you have the impetus to get rich or die trying.
Ok, then what you asking for would require a rework of several key systems of the game, none of which is mining or even the commodity market. So what you're asking is WAY out of the scope of this "rebalance fix"

Not that I disagree mind you, but what you're asking is a rework of ALOT of other things in this game.
 
A man who is honest about his dishonesty. You have my respect sir, o7
I started out honest, did the usual rank-up in both powers, then decided the game actually offered a brilliant 'life of crime' scenario, so embraced the lifestyle!

The game doesn't 'enable' players to be ne'er-do-well's in early game (not easily, anyway), but once a solid foundation with rank and reputation in 'valuable' systems is reached, a little imagination and lots of fun is to be had 🥳
 
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