FDev: Credit rebalancing incoming, "more reward for higher risk" activities

[Khazid]

What annoys me is that the speed at which new players progress is completely out of wack. A few days gameplay, get from sidewinder to an A rated anaconda, all the progress of pre expansion elite shipwise! Then a whole month or so to get to a fleet career. You can brake this down more, add engineers and all, bit there is no linear progression at all. It feels extremely fast, only to go extremely slow later on. On top of that you need to do the less exciting activity of all (for most players) to get FC credits.

It is a pitty though that new players will skip a lot of ships in between sidey, viper, fdl or type6 to python etc. Thats because it s so easy to skip inbetweens since its a matter of mining a few more hours.

Combat still seems underwhelming compared to mining. At least it is not completely irrelevant for credit earnings now.

 

[sirus66]

What annoys me is that the speed at which new players progress is completely out of wack. A few days gameplay, get from sidewinder to an A rated anaconda, all the progress of pre expansion elite shipwise! Then a whole month or so to get to a fleet career. You can brake this down more, add engineers and all, bit there is no linear progression at all. It feels extremely fast, only to go extremely slow later on. On top of that you need to do the less exciting activity of all (for most players) to get FC credits.

It is a pitty though that new players will skip a lot of ships in between sidey, viper, fdl or type6 to python etc. Thats because it s so easy to skip inbetweens since its a matter of mining a few more hours.

Combat still seems underwhelming compared to mining. At least it is not completely irrelevant for credit earnings now.

The ammount of times i've seen this argument.....

Look buddy, players keep playing Elite not because of the so called "progression" as you call it. But because of the features that attracted them in the first place. I can ASSURE you that even if they reach Anaconda in a day, they will realise that it's not a "I win ship" and all ships have their uses. And they will build other ships for different things.

I went from sidewinder to viper to clipper to anaconda to cutter. Yes I skipped alot of ships and hated the rank grind so much but guess what? I could not wait to get past it to finally have the new ship so I can learn it's pattern, how it feels, how it flies etc.

The "progression" should be the "git gud" part of learning the ship not the booring grind it took you to get there.

 

[Kestrel71]

You use your ships and skills to progress in a Power, and grow the power and BGS through your work- i.e. they give you an objective in game to work towards.

All of which has absolutely ZERO effect on the game. It's text in a codex entry, at best. A completely pointless activity that progresses absolutely NOTHING.

 

[Rubbernuke]

All of which has absolutely ZERO effect on the game. It's text in a codex entry, at best. A completely pointless activity that progresses absolutely NOTHING.

Really? Factions ban or accept new goods, rares can be locked / unlocked, security changes, NAV beacons can go from compromised to patrolled. Powerplay systems allow for passive bonuses as well as rank unlocked ones.

I'd say that changes the game and has an effect.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Regarding boosting profits for killing pirates I hope they consider reducing the numbers needed instead so we could earn more by banging through missions faster
.I like a good kill X number of pirates as much as the next person however if I only have 30 mins to spare killing 30 targets is not really feasible.

 

[Kestrel71]

Really? Factions ban or accept new goods, rares can be locked / unlocked, security changes, NAV beacons can go from compromised to patrolled. Powerplay systems allow for passive bonuses as well as rank unlocked ones.

I'd say that changes the game and has an effect.

It progresses my game not one bit. Boring. Pointless.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It progresses my game not one bit. Boring. Pointless.

Well if you are based in that location it will, depending on what you want to do- a rares trader who collects them once unlocked would see it as progression for example. But to each their own.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

There's a split between players who do like the progression game and those who do not. I don't want to come up with fantasy numbers, but I'd say both camps are roughly equal. Anyway, there is no such thing like your overgeneralization of "the" players and for those who do love the progression game this aspect has been fouled up beyond all recognition. You seem to fall for the widespread trumpistic fallacy "I am many"...

Indeed. Whilst I try not to speak for others I know I used to LOVE the progression in ED. Saving up for a new laser or upgrading form an E to a D FSD for my sidewinder........ Yes back in the day (if you didn't cheese the exploits) even that took time to do.
I was 25 hrs or so in game before I fully A rated my sidey . Back then The progression balance got into trouble once you went beyond say the T6 but up until that point it was beautifully balanced imo.

That game has sadly gone now but i can honestly say I would not swap my 1st 6 months in the game for anything.

I said I don't speak for anyone else but myself but I like to think I am not that much of minority player.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I will be completely honest I didn't even think about PvP. I agree for PvP it's difficult. The difference between an "end game" ship and a generic A rated one is huge and I can see why IF I wanted to competively play PvP I would want to accelerate that.
As a PvE player a large part of the game for me was about the journey of making my millions. That I feel is largely gone now

 

[Sysmon]

The "progression" should be the "git gud" part of learning the ship not the booring grind it took you to get there.

The problem with the "get gud" argument is that it inevitably is made by people that thinks twitch-based game play is the only thing to consider. ED, however, has always been about having multiple solutions to the same problem: Twitch-based solutions requiring agility and accuracy; tactical solutions requiring knowledge of the weaknesses of the opponent and strengths of one's own vessel and loadout, as well as of tactical oversight to know where to position oneself against multiple enemies and when to run; and strategic thinking that requires patience and problem-solving to build a ship that can overcome issues relating to deficiencies in the other types of skills, such as building a near-indestructible ship or a ship with overwhelming alpha-strike capability.

There's a lot of whining about carebears in ships that are near indestructible by most NPCs. But what they have done is used patience as a skill to overcome an inability, or a lack of will, to engage with opponents as dance partners. Which I think is fine: If I want to have a fun rush of a fight I take out my Eagle Mk II for Res site shenanigans; if I want to sit back with a beer and watch the fireworks I bring the Corvette. If I want something in-between, I bring my Mamba for general fun times or my T-10 for AX fun times.

Of course, there are also those who complain that it is too much work to get ships engineered to near-invulnerability. However, the challenge has to be somewhere or it really wouldn't be much of a game.

S

 

[Morbad]

The problem with the "get gud" argument is that it inevitably is made by people that thinks twitch-based game play is the only thing to consider.

I feel experience and piloting ability are the main avenues of progress, but I certainly don't think twitch-based gameplay is the only thing to consider. Even when talking about PvP encounters I can't count the number of times my CMDR has defeated technically superior, or more numerous, opponents in more powerful, vessels through the use of superior tactics.

For example, I'm recall of forcing CMDR Old Sauveur's Python to retreat from my CMDR's FDL in a 1v1 way back in 1.4. The Python was the superior 1v1 vessel (though it's performance in/against a wing was always lacking) and Old Sauveur was the better pilot at the time. Still, I knew he had a very hot running loadout (PAs and beam lasers), so I kited him into close proximity of a star before submitting to his interdiction and fought defensively until I saw him start to overheat. I immediately went on the offensive, forcing him to burn a SCB charge. He responded by retracting his hardpoints, giving the 'o7', jumping out with crispy subs.

I've also shot myself in the foot, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, while trying stuff that was as ineffective as it was unconventional, almost as often...but that's how we learn.

There's a lot of whining about carebears in ships that are near indestructible by most NPCs. But what they have done is used patience as a skill to overcome an inability, or a lack of will, to engage with opponents as dance partners. Which I think is fine: If I want to have a fun rush of a fight I take out my Eagle Mk II for Res site shenanigans; if I want to sit back with a beer and watch the fireworks I bring the Corvette. If I want something in-between, I bring my Mamba for general fun times or my T-10 for AX fun times.

NPCs are barely ever obstacles. None of the remotely threatening ones are anything but purely opt-in encounters.

If I'm looking for a challenge, as a player, from NPC content, I'm forced to have my CMDR do things that are profoundly immersion defying. Getting in an AX Sidewinder and trying to kill an interceptor, or taking an unEngineered Eagle into a High CZ, certainly make for a difficult time...but it doesn't feel right. Habitually self-handicapping doesn't make for a very organic or plausible experience, and it further cheapens material progress.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

e...but it doesn't feel right. Habitually self-handicapping doesn't make for a very organic or plausible experience, and it further cheapens material progress.

It is for different reasons but you just hit the nail on the head why the argument that having huge credit boosts it's fine because you can always ignore them or just eject 9 out of every 10 mined of pinite if you want to is rubbish.
Just knowing I am deliberately playing suboptimally pulls the rug for me.

I read that the bounties are going up 400% - 1000%. Can that really be true?

 

[Morbad]

I read that the bounties are going up 400% - 1000%. Can that really be true?

I think the lower end of that is already true.

 

[Ydiss]

It's 10x for the low end and 4x for the high. It's already happened but you only see the increase on the transactions tab, not on the target or kill notification.