I thought it was laser mining they were trying to tone down not Core mining.
FDev: Credit rebalancing incoming, "more reward for higher risk" activities
- Thread starter StuartGT
- Start date
i'd say that's mainly loadout/engineering. today i watched my currently Master ranked npc crew taking out an elite npc . the difference: she was piloting a player build almost at max engineered ship. the enemy a NPC FAS she didn't even loose a ring of shield (krait mkII, thermal resist class 6 bi-weave, 2 G3 res augmented boosters.). so much for risk by a better AI.
sigh....
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If memory serves me correctly, the mining update dropped (nearly two years ago) at the start of Christmas break. People were seeing crazy prices for VO's and asking if it was a bug. A community manager from Frontier said they would look into it after their break and in the meantime wished everyone a happy holiday gold rush. I am of the opinion they did not anticipate bgs states altering prices so dramatically, but with the large influx of players at the time combined with a general outrage (from both sides) on the whack-a-mole gold rush exploit nature of the game, they just decided to let it go on as was.
Pure speculation on my part.
That's why they are broken. We basically have (had?) the opportunity to get so filthy rich that a mobile (battle-)station became simplistic toys we can almost forget we have. They should really have been tight knots of complex end-game loops and challenges. But there were enough loud whiners that they were haaaaard, probably the same people that implode every time mining payouts or mission stacking/board swapping/meta credit-maker of the month get nerfed. Oh, and include those that "just want to fly their ships" and would prefer ED to be Space Engine or Minecraft in space.
We ended up with a squadron asset dumbed down to be a player asset, but without adding anything to make that asset interesting on its own. I look forward to see how this "balancing" is going to work. It could make carriers super interesting (finally), or it could just reduce the level of challenge and feel of progress to an absolute minimum.
S
Well, I'm quite frank about my own experience - the FC has been useful as a personal asset, actually much more than I had first thought, and has enabled me to move 2 accounts between Colonia & the bubble (and all of their associated ships & modules) as well as move large amounts of cargo around... Of course, the 2 'bubble' runs also enabled other players to transport their 'belongings' in either direction too...That's why they are broken. We basically have (had?) the opportunity to get so filthy rich that a mobile (battle-)station became simplistic toys we can almost forget we have. They should really have been tight knots of complex end-game loops and challenges. But there were enough loud whiners that they were haaaaard, probably the same people that implode every time mining payouts or mission stacking/board swapping/meta credit-maker of the month get nerfed. Oh, and include those that "just want to fly their ships" and would prefer ED to be Space Engine or Minecraft in space.
We ended up with a squadron asset dumbed down to be a player asset, but without adding anything to make that asset interesting on its own. I look forward to see how this "balancing" is going to work. It could make carriers super interesting (finally), or it could just reduce the level of challenge and feel of progress to an absolute minimum.
Mine is now in the Witch Head Nebula - with help and guidance from @Bigmaec tonight I killed my first Cyclops - and was able to repair & reload.... Yep, on my FC!
Mine doesn't remain in the same place / area for extended periods - it does get a lot of use.
Just curious, has there been a particularly dedicated individual who has collected data on each activity rebalance so it would post a, I dunno, like a credits per hour over the course of several updates so people could see if all this is hyper or if there's actually been severe nerfs each time? Like, I admit curiosity in seeing how each activity has changed over time with data rather than anecdotal evidence.
@Sysmon - the story of how I got my FC:
forums.frontier.co.uk
I'm not a massive fan of mining
Urgent warning - sell all Painite immediately!
I saw this thread yesterday and thought, "You know... It's been a while since I did some mining, so I might as well take my mining Conda out and mine some painite again before the prices get nerfed". Under half an hour in to filling my cargo hold I almost fell asleep. I parked my Conda after...
I'm not a massive fan of mining
Precisely, and it sounds like you are using it as an actual carrier/mobile base. However, exploration in ED has mainly been in the form of scouting, so carriers have been enabled to do that. And administration of them is so simple that they can be left for ages. FD missed a great opportunity for some base maintenance gameplay that could even lead to base building gameplay later down the road.
Carriers have basically become another ship model. People have even taken to complaining that they don't have bridges and can't be supercruised.
SOn my first trip back to the bubble (I think you may be aware my main 'lives' in Colonia) I was flying ahead of my FC (in an AspX - oneof the ships I'd 'skipped' as the Phantom came out at just the right time) for around 500Ly then calling it to my location - then setting off again.. So had flown most of the way back from Colonia with my FC playing catch-up! It was quite fun to do as I was also looking for Tritium hotspots along the way.Precisely, and it sounds like you are using it as an actual carrier/mobile base. However, exploration in ED has mainly been in the form of scouting, so carriers have been enabled to do that. And administration of them is so simple that they can be left for ages. FD missed a great opportunity for some base maintenance gameplay that could even lead to base building gameplay later down the road.
Carriers have basically become another ship model. People have even taken to complaining that they don't have bridges and can't be supercruised.
Anyway, enough boring stuff from me
I do hope that Odyssey gives them 'legitimacy' but in the mean time, me & my pirate base are having a ball
On my first trip back to the bubble (I think you may be aware my main 'lives' in Colonia) I was flying ahead of my FC (in an AspX - oneof the ships I'd 'skipped' as the Phantom came out at just the right time) for around 500Ly then calling it to my location - then setting off again.. So had flown most of the way back from Colonia with my FC playing catch-up! It was quite fun to do as I was also looking for Tritium hotspots along the way.
Anyway, enough boring stuff from me
I do hope that Odyssey gives them 'legitimacy' but in the mean time, me & my pirate base are having a ball
Stop enjoying having a FC and feel sad, as the self appointed god emperor of the playerbase I command it.
Sorry... back into the naughty corner I go... again
A big issue is simply that we don't lose anything substantial upon destruction. We end up, for example, with the one-way power creep of never losing engineered modules. A balance of requirements for engineering could then be countered by modules losing engineered effects upon destruction - we get the stock ship back only from insurance payout.
Tie other data to the same module that exploration data ends up in: Everything since last station dock "save point" is lost upon destruction, Balance this with it being available in a "black box" USS that only the owner can see for maybe a week before it is made public and/or disappears.
Combined, the two points above would ensure that anyone destroyed in PvP would not be able to rush back in a minty fresh and fully engineered ship to continue the battle. It would also add a bit of risk to balance those sweet rewards. And it would make engineering something that a player would have to balance the reward of against the risk of losing it.
Make carriers destructible while we are at it, but make them capable of defending themselves as well as jumping away from danger without owner input (but based on set owner's preferences as well as fuel availability). Then they would also be a tremendous reward with tremendous risk, and an actual asset for the game.
In short, balance all these rewards we get with some actual risk.
S
I couldn't give you something that went back over several updates, but based on what I've seen and experienced, I'd say right now it would break down something like as follows:
Combat- Haz RES bounty hunting (w/KWS) at @ 6 million per hour. CZs, (solo with allied massacre mission) @ 15 million per hour (60 million per hour if a wing of 4). Stacked massacre missions across multiple factions @ 150 million per hour (but this needs some very specific criteria)
Exploration- based on an evening flying out round Colonia, 5 million per hour.
Trading- 40 million per hour if you know what you're doing.
PvE piracy- Absolute buttons unless you know exactly what you're doing. Used to be a lot more. Very dependent on decent LTD prices in a station with a black market. I'd say typically 5 million per hour if you're lucky and do know what to do. More if you're really lucky and come across a T-9 when you actually and are in a ship that can hold all that cargo.
Mining- Previously around 300 million per hour (possibly- this is Borann and who was actually counting at those rates?). It's been nerfed since then, but I'd be surprised if a new player couldn't make 100 million an hour after a couple of days.
Smuggling- 2-3 million per hour loss, but depends on how masochistic you are.
This does include some guesswork so I'd say numbers are approximate, but I'd like to think these are in the right ballpark.
Obviously I've not included the risk of each activity, but I'm sure this can be worked out based on the activities.
What I don’t want is for FDEV to just artificially inflate AI ships with more HP the way they do in CZs. Continuously shooting a bullet-sponge target is neither challenging or fun.
If you ever played OGame, you'd know that losing such asset would easily mean Cmdr leaving the game completely.
Huge award for well coordinated and sucessful attack by several Cmdrs, yes, but something one Cmdr can rarely ever recover from, especially new one.
Not owning a FC, but I say no to destructable FCs.
PS
No, there's no defence against who really wants to destroy you.