FDev, just watch this video.

[JeffRyan]

Isn't that EXACTLY why he shouldn't have released that video.

This is a massive kick in the nuts publicity wise for Frontier because "he really needs his Grade 5 thrusters"

I feel his definition of "really need" is the biggest issue at hand here - apparently it's important enough that he doesn't mind giving Elite a buttload of bad publicity and accusing DBOBE of being a strange eccentric old man who doesn't understand what people want from games rather than asking productively and calmly for storage and reassessment of some of the requirements on the forums.

Public videos exert more pressure to get what you want though.

Agreed.

 

[Garbarrage]

Reading through the thread there are some excellent thoughts and ideas coming through.

I'm pretty sure the guys at FD will be here shortly.

Given the cringe-inducing responses of some of FD staff to the bugged NPC weapons following 2.1 release eg.
Players - There's something going on with the NPC weapons.
MB/SJA - No there isn't. They're just harder now.
Players - Here's a video of a 100% shield and hull Python getting one-shotted to the rebuy screen.
MB - Gut gud.
SJA - Zero pips to shields + perfect firing position = major ouch.
Players - Wow. We must really suck.

*Some time passes*

FD - Well... ya see... What's happened here is... and we [should] feel a bit silly.... is... and you won't believe this... um.... some NPCs can fire Plasma Accelerators like multicannons... We're fixing it now.... k sorry bye

I'd prefer if they didn't bother responding to this fairly trivial issue with the same level of arrogance and just fixed the problem.

 

[illyTheKid TM]

I don't think player trading is a good idea, unless player are only able to sell materials for fixed prices and even then it's doubtful. You will have even more complaints here from players who buy materials that they're too expensive and from players who grind them for sale because it will kill the game for them.

 

[Wasp0]

No , I only see the vid that posted lol ,nothing says I got to study the guy ,look at all his vids ,make friends ,go for drinks ,date his sister , it's just this vid ,doesn't matter about who,what or anything else he is ,he's just another ED video make ,there are thousands of them.

Good luck with that short sightedness Mr Rumble. you must get awfully tired of bumping into everything.

Can you not see the point of the Video was NOT to complain about a permit or Brandy, but it is about the Whole of Engineers and the RNG. I am sorry you can't see the point of the video, but you are basing your comments on the video and picking up the point about a Permit.

Sorry for you Sir!, but What ever, if you can't see the point, then i am not going to try convince you anymore sir!

Fly safe Gut Rumble or maybe it should be Mr Magoo

 

[Samoth]

Given the cringe-inducing responses of some of FD staff to the bugged NPC weapons following 2.1 release eg.
Players - There's something going on with the NPC weapons.
MB/SJA - No there isn't. They're just harder now.
Players - Here's a video of a 100% shield and hull Python getting one-shotted to the rebuy screen.
MB - Gut gud.
SJA - Zero pips to shields + perfect firing position = major ouch.
Players - Wow. We must really suck.

*Some time passes*

FD - Well... ya see... What's happened here is... and we [should] feel a bit silly.... is... and you won't believe this... um.... some NPCs can fire Plasma Accelerators like multicannons... We're fixing it now.... k sorry bye

I'd prefer if they didn't bother responding to this fairly trivial issue with the same level of arrogance and just fixed the problem.

This made me LOL

 

[Barking_Mad]

No, people are saying that if you choose to try to 'participate' in that content by immediately trying to maximise everything then of course that will feel grindy because you're trying to dedicate all of your game time solely to 'completing' something when the content simply isn't intended to be played in that way.

What is irritating people (and prompted my own comments on this last night) is that you and others completely refuse to accept that it is your own choices that are creating the experience which you're then complaining about.

I'm also sure that if many of the people making the extreme negative comments here did manage to get a full set of Engineer upgrades inside two weeks, they would be back on the forums posting about how the game 'has no content' by the first week of July, again without acknowledging that they had actively decided to try to 'complete' content which would have sat alongside and enhance the gameplay they previously enjoyed for months were it not for their own decisions.

Take the famed brandy. I can tell you how I'll be doing that. Every time I find myself near to the source and heading in the general direction of the engineer, I will pick some up. At some point I will have delivered 200 tons. What I won't do is try to grind it to the exclsion of doing anything else. I know that would be mind-numbingly boring, which is exactly why I won't be choosing to do it and come to that, is exactly how I know the content was never intended to be played in that way.

DB said before the update came out that he was mystified as to why people play the game in that wa - just repeatedly doing the same thing over and over and over again. It's exactly the same as when people used to sit spamming charity missions for hours and hours for rank and then said how boring that was - of course it was boring but it was a choice made by the players concerned to do that. The ranking mechanic didn't require that of anybody - I've been steadily gaining rank with the Federation and Empire since I started playing but without ever subjecting myself to an activity which I know I would find incredibly boring, for exactly the reason that I would find it incredibly boring.

Storage is needed and should have been part of this update, in fact should have been in the game before Engineers was released anyway. I've said that several times in other threads.

I haven't yet seen an argument against the rest of Engineers which isn't completely, 100% rooted in players making choices about what they're going to do in the game and how they're going to play it, then trying to make someone else responsible for the result of their choices. As long as you have a choice, you have personal responsibility for the result of it. Nobody else.

This. +10.

 

[CMDR B. Schmidt]

*Mod hat off

It is indeed a very tricky balancing act. If you make progress too easy, players like Kornelius will get bored even faster.

For me the issue is not so much the material cap limit (I hope FDEV can fix that rather easily). For me it is the RNG and sheer number of materials required that make the whole thing frustrating.

If there was a much clearer logic for where and how to get materials things would improve a lot. For example, Specialized Legacy Firmware is known to pop up in A) Missions or B) Transmissions related USS. But even doing JUST those 2 activities it takes for ages to have that material appear as reward. The RNG still there is enormous.

Two possible solutions for that that I can see:

1) Make material spawn much more deterministic, predictable and directly tied to specific events that can be triggered by players. I.e. the same system that is about to be deployed for trading Rep for Experimental Effects with Engineers could be also used for materials by allowing players to exchange cash or commodities or faction rep (or forgo mission cash/commodity rewards) in exchange for a selected material as reward in missions with factions. Then make each type of material linked to specific faction types or economies for added logic and galaxy geography flavor.

2) Creating a player market to trade in materials.

I would personally prefer option 1 although both options could also work well together.

Both are reasonable. You got my vote upon both.

 

[Jason S]

I think engineer upgrades are like golden magical swords stuck in a rock.

As soon as it is known everyone wants it but then there is disappointment when they find they cannot or cannot within a particular timeframe and effort get it.

Well I think engineers was designed like this to prevent every one maxing up on everything within a year.

Just relax, have a cadburys Carmel and a cigar and just think that it does not really matter if you get the upgrade soon, just collect the materials while doing other things and after a while see what you could get.

Having said all that there does need to be storage for materials and commodities.

 

[JuicerPrime]

Isn't that EXACTLY why he shouldn't have released that video.

This is a massive kick in the nuts publicity wise for Frontier because "he really needs his Grade 5 thrusters"

I feel his definition of "really need" is the biggest issue at hand here - apparently it's important enough that he doesn't mind giving Elite a buttload of bad publicity and accusing DBOBE of being a strange eccentric old man who doesn't understand what people want from games rather than asking productively and calmly for storage and reassessment of some of the requirements on the forums.

Public videos exert more pressure to get what you want though.

Yes, because asking productively and calmly has ever had any impact on Frontier's design policies. They have said repeatedly that they will adhere to their overall vision, and it's got them to where things are at this point - not the fans being hysterical and unreasonable. The fact that he's highlighted a progress-blocking bug in the context of being unable to get the upgrade he desires shouldn't be taken as that's all he's bothered about - the rest of the vid makes that pretty clear.

The video is probably not going to blow a hole through Frontier's public image - it's fan feedback, not an investigation into LIBOR rigging or something. And even in the unlikely event that KB has "delivered a massive kick in the nuts publicity-wise for Frontier", so? He's not a Frontier employee. He's one of their customers highlighting his frustrations with their product - nothing more, nothing less. If that delivers a steel toecap to Frontier's public nads then it sounds like the open market is operating like it should - it's their design decisions and company policy that have produced that result and he's under no obligation to remain silent or to soften that fact for them. What you're suggesting reeks of censorship.

 

[CMDR Zhon Daeli]

Do you have any idea who Kornelius Briedis is? He's been making Elite Dangerous videos for donkey's years - one of the most prolific video bloggers in the entire ED fandom. He's not some random guy who's made a video because he's annoyed - if he's annoyed then it's a sign that there is very likely something rotten in the game, and it's starting to smell. If you've been paying attention to the forums lately, you'll see a lot of threads saying the same things as he's highlighted there - so yes, he's very likely speaking for people other than himself.

But, by all means - undermine criticism and honest feedback with the usual tired, rehashed dog whistles and appeals to petty instincts instead of letting the dev's get a good look at the public effects of their build. I'm sure it'll help Frontier to overcome lingering design problems and make ED into a world-respected hallmark of the space sim genre. Really.

Examples:
"And I know you don't care how we feel." - This is the argument of an entitled, ungrateful, spoiled child. "Can I have the ice cream?" "No." "YOU NEVER LET ME HAVE WHAT I WANT!" he screamed from behind a chocolate covered mouth as the $100 bag of candy spilled onto the floor.

"Dear Frontier, you don't care about upgrading your weapons because you fly Cobra Mark III's!" - Yeah, that's a solid argument. 10/10. Great point maker that one.

Accusations that Frontier don't want to make a fun game. Yawn.

Useless, unhelpful sarcasm. Yawn.

Waffle. Waffle. Waffle.

"David Braben is eccentric old man" .. eccentric "middle aged" man...

I can go on, but I believe the above illustrates my point:

Just because he's a "super video making dood of elite fandom" doesn't change the fact his video is using the exact same arguments as every other thread about the topic. Hell, it's even riddled with petty insults and snide remarks at the Dev's and at David himself. Nothing constructive. Nothing helpful. Nothing new. And you people expect us to take him seriously?

 

[4gui4]

It's time to stop adding things and fix things that already exist in the game

 

[Alec Turner]

I think engineer upgrades are like golden magical swords stuck in a rock.

As soon as it is known everyone wants it but then there is disappointment when they find they cannot or cannot within a particular timeframe and effort get it.

Well I think engineers was designed like this to prevent every one maxing up on everything within a year.

Just relax, have a cadburys Carmel and a cigar and just think that it does not really matter if you get the upgrade soon, just collect the materials while doing other things and after a while see what you could get.

Having said all that there does need to be storage for materials and commodities.

Bingo!

 

[Gut Rumble]

I think you need to watch the vid ,he says "because of Engineers" he has to make list , sheets ,collect everything and is full , he's turned it into a grind for no reason ,perhaps it's because you like and watch him a lot ,your wearing rose tinted glasses ,but all I have to go on is this ONE vid and you call me short sighted LOL.
Time to go.....enjoy your game.

 

[Electric Kite]

Kornelius is just saying what ive been saying since the beta dropped - FD are out of touch with the community.
The thing is though, they have been for some time now. We never asked for Poweplay. We never asked for CQC. We never asked for RNG elements and arbitrary limits. I call a spade a spade. White knights be damned. In black and white terms -thats 3 miss fires from FD.Just what exacly is going on in that office? The overwhelming amount of discontent on these forums speaks for itself. And now even the pillars of Elite on youtube are starting to get fed up.

I played this update for about an hour and realised i was not enjoying it. I simply can not muster the motivation to take part in this update. If people want to say " bye then" fine. Ive done that myself so any times i even got banned for it a few times. It changes nothing. Fanbase is clearly not happy. I wouldnt say its 50/50 either though some would. Either way even at that...thats...not..good.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It's time to stop adding things and fix things that already exist in the game

We used to be able slag Star Citizen fans about that...not anymore :/

Just to be clear..i get its a ten year plan. I get its not finished. What im going to do is keep an eye on elte as i am interested in the project and WOULD like to be immersed in this univerese some day. But as for playing it now? Thinking about it just makes me want to play something else. Anything else. I guess thats ok for me..But im sure FD would LIKE people to keep playing it through its ten year progress..surley?

 

[Red Anders]

Do you have any idea who Kornelius Briedis is?

<snipped for brevity>

Yes, he's a bloke who bought the game and has an opinion.

Seriously, I'm not denigrating the work that the various vloggers do at all although personally I prefer to spend my time playing rather than watching videos about the game, but the deification of players like this is genuine fanboyism. It's one of the reasons that it's so iritating to be labelled a white knight or fanboy by many of the same people just because you have something to say which doesn't consist of relentless negativity.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Yes, because asking productively and calmly has ever had any impact on Frontier's design policies. They have said repeatedly that they will adhere to their overall vision, and it's got them to where things are at this point - not the fans being hysterical and unreasonable..

They aren't going to change their overall vision for you, or anyone else with a different opinion as that would be plain daft. However it's quite wrong to say that they don't listen and make changes based on feedback.

 

[Wasp0]

I think you need to watch the vid ,he says "because of Engineers" he has to make list , sheets ,collect everything and is full , he's turned it into a grind for no reason ,perhaps it's because you like and watch him a lot ,your wearing rose tinted glasses ,but all I have to go on is this ONE vid and you call me short sighted LOL.
Time to go.....enjoy your game.

Boy oh boy what a.................. Removed as i want to avoid yet another infraction, but i think most people get what is the missing word!

 

[Barthok]

Isn't that EXACTLY why he shouldn't have released that video.

This is a massive kick in the nuts publicity wise for Frontier because "he really needs his Grade 5 thrusters"

I feel his definition of "really need" is the biggest issue at hand here - apparently it's important enough that he doesn't mind giving Elite a buttload of bad publicity and accusing DBOBE of being a strange eccentric old man who doesn't understand what people want from games rather than asking productively and calmly for storage and reassessment of some of the requirements on the forums.

Public videos exert more pressure to get what you want though.

I disagree in some parts, the reason is because since release there are many bugs in the game that aren't fixed till today. The new mechanics of the engineerupdate build on some parts that wasn't fixed yet. So It's totaly normaly that the frustration level is realy high. Myself hit the same Sirius bug as it hits Kornelius. And in the video he says only what many of us are thinking.

 

[Sams]

Yes, because asking productively and calmly has ever had any impact on Frontier's design policies. They have said repeatedly that they will adhere to their overall vision, and it's got them to where things are at this point - not the fans being hysterical and unreasonable. Just ask any beta-tester whose feedback has been ignored. There are quite a few of them. The fact that he's highlighted a progress-blocking bug in the context of being unable to get the upgrade he desires shouldn't be taken as that's all he's bothered about - the rest of the vid makes that pretty clear.

If KB has "delivered a massive kick in the nuts publicity-wise for Frontier", so? He's not a Frontier employee. He's one of their customers highlighting his frustrations with their product - nothing more. If that delivers a steel toecap to Frontier's public nads then it sounds like the open market is operating like it should - it's their design decisions and company policy that have produced that result and he's under no obligation to soften that fact for them. What you're suggesting reeks of censorship.

The thing is... it is ALL three of the biggest Elite YT's ALL saying the same thing. the naysayers can try to knock down one... but all three?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Kornelius is just saying what ive been saying since the beta dropped - FD are out of touch with the community.
The thing is though, they have been for some time now. We never asked for Poweplay. We never asked for CQC. We never asked for RNG elements and arbitrary limits.

Game design by player base - what could go wrong?