FDev - Why the radio silence?

[Edward Lewis]

I'm sure others will have noticed but FDev have been suspiciously silent on the forums - both Dangerous Discussion and in the 3.0 Beta Feedback forum (don't even start me on the lack of dev activity in the subforums). We have the odd dev making an off-topic comment, but really very little pertaining to the game itself.

I know they are probably extremely busy right now working on Beyond, but even in the beta forum they've made practically no posts or engaged with users. It's very hard to tell then if issues are being ackowledged, if they agree, or if they even care.

Now, I like Elite and I like FDev. However, I am a realist and we all know FDev can improve in certain areas. One of these key areas is communication.

With Dale gone and FDev really not present in the forum discussions at the moment, I'm worried they still haven't learned how to consistently communicate well with the community.

FDev - a little feedback would be nice. I don't need to know all the upcoming details and I don't need you to agree with me, but at the moment I feel as if player feedbck may as well be directed at the nearest brick wall for all the good it seems to be doing.


I will not be opening the pod bay doors until I get a dev response.

Hey there,

Thanks for your feedback. You are right when you say that we're very busy right now getting ready for Beyond release and preparing what comes after that, too.

The developers, and the community team read the comments and feedback on the forums, social media, reddit and more, and communicate as much as we possibly can when we have clear and considered information to convey. For example, Sandro is putting together a post right now all about the changes coming with Crime and Punishment... much in the same way he did about the changes with Engineering. While you may not see comments and replies all day every day, everything is read through carefully and passed on to the development team, all of which are working very hard to make the best Elite Dangerous experience possible!

We have our weekly newsletter where we update our community on all the latest information, we hold regular livestreams where we discuss upcoming content with the developers (such as this Thursday's livestream which is a Q&A with the Lead Designer). We post patch notes, we update the community with post-livestream Q&As, and summaries of what we showed off on the streams. The focused feedback forum is an example of where we're making an effort to bring the community in to the discussion on future updates (and we'll be putting increased focus on this, and giving special attention to the FFF, when putting together the features coming as part of Beyond. We communicate through our social media channels, through individual channels on Discord, our developers are active on the forums, we send out emails to groups to engage with them and find out what in-game and out-of-game activity they have planned, and much more. Tonight, I'll be a guest on Lave Radio, talking about beta 3 and beyond (no pun intended).

Thanks.

 

[Raino]

keep goin, greetings and cheers

 

[Edward Lewis]

Hi Brett - thanks for taking the time to respond here. I can certainly imagine the team is very busy and it's looking like great work so far.

It does however look like a conscious decision was made by the developers not to get involved commenting on the beta forum, even if they are watching and reading.

For example, I created this thread to express concerns by myself and a portion of the exploration community about how the material limit caps would affect galactic-rim explorers. To date most players in the thread have expressed their support to us and hope that Frontier will provide a fix.

Now, today in the patch notes we noticed this:



When checking the beta, the changes were not to any of the recipes discussed in the thread.

As I've said, I really like Elite, I think Frontier are great and I think Beyond is going to be great. But, as an explorer, it really feels like we're being ignored and I know others in the (exploration) community feel the same. We're on the 3rd beta now and it looks like we're not being taken into account - which is especially frustrating considering that the fix should be strictly a balancing one and not require extra coding. Just someone to review, hopefully agree there's a problem and adjust the synthesis recipes to match.

I don't mean to hijack this thread into an extension of that one, but the point I'm making is that the lack of communication has left a bad taste on an otherwise very positive update. As stated above, normally Frontier are good to at least pop in to the larger threads to clarify the official stance, but that hasn't been happening at all.

If you have your reasons, you have your reasons. But my honest feedback is that I've found this aspect of the beta process to be quite frustrating.

Also - we do have some news on the synthesis recipes, we'll get that out to you as soon as possible too. Just finalising the details. Essentially, we've listened, and you should be able to do roughly the same amount as you currently can. It should be roughly the same as it is in-game now.

 

[Gully Foyle]

Thanks for the heads-up Ed!

 

[ITZC0ATL]

Hey there,

Thanks for your feedback. You are right when you say that we're very busy right now getting ready for Beyond release and preparing what comes after that, too.

The developers, and the community team read the comments and feedback on the forums, social media, reddit and more, and communicate as much as we possibly can when we have clear and considered information to convey. For example, Sandro is putting together a post right now all about the changes coming with Crime and Punishment... much in the same way he did about the changes with Engineering. While you may not see comments and replies all day every day, everything is read through carefully and passed on to the development team, all of which are working very hard to make the best Elite Dangerous experience possible!

We have our weekly newsletter where we update our community on all the latest information, we hold regular livestreams where we discuss upcoming content with the developers (such as this Thursday's livestream which is a Q&A with the Lead Designer). We post patch notes, we update the community with post-livestream Q&As, and summaries of what we showed off on the streams. The focused feedback forum is an example of where we're making an effort to bring the community in to the discussion on future updates (and we'll be putting increased focus on this, and giving special attention to the FFF, when putting together the features coming as part of Beyond. We communicate through our social media channels, through individual channels on Discord, our developers are active on the forums, we send out emails to groups to engage with them and find out what in-game and out-of-game activity they have planned, and much more. Tonight, I'll be a guest on Lave Radio, talking about beta 3 and beyond (no pun intended).

Thanks.

I have to say, Ed, I get the feeling that you're very protective of Elite and in particular the dev team. It's an admirable quality as it must frustrate you too, having to constantly address complaints against your organisation and co-workers.

I don't at all mean to take away from the fact that I'm very happy with most changes, including the live streams and the Focused Feedback forum. They're all great steps, I just thought that the beta forum itself is at odds with the great strides that have been taken recently.

At any rate, I'm mostly just disappointed at seeing that synth recipes have been adjusted but ours ignored. I have no idea why this is, and that doesn't incline me to create feedback threads, summarise previous threads and corroborate player quotes on the subject - just to be ignored.

Don't let my frustration come across as a lack of appreciation. I was eagerly watching yesterday's stream (do a barrel roll) until work called me away and I'll hop on tomorrow and try to get my question in


EDIT:

Also - we do have some news on the synthesis recipes, we'll get that out to you as soon as possible too. Just finalising the details. Essentially, we've listened, and you should be able to do roughly the same amount as you currently can. It should be roughly the same as it is in-game now.

Now that's what I wanted to hear! Thanks Ed

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Edward.
Special mission for you.


We need front line info. I wanna see that big battle axe in action.

Bonus points if it's done documentary style. Plus it sounds fun

 

[Allitnil]

Also - we do have some news on the synthesis recipes, we'll get that out to you as soon as possible too. Just finalising the details. Essentially, we've listened, and you should be able to do roughly the same amount as you currently can. It should be roughly the same as it is in-game now.

Thanks Ed, that's great. But why does it take until after what we're told is "as close to the 3.0 release build as possible" before anyone from FDev even acknowledges that the issue exists? A 30 second post along the lines of "we hear you & understand and will address this" could have been posted ages ago - this exact issue was raised in the Focussed Feedback threads on December 1st.

We know you can't afford the time to engage in every single thread but perhaps you could just throw us the odd crumb to let us know that you are at least aware of specific issues? Otherwise there really is zero difference between "we don't listen" / "we listen but don't understand" / "we understand but don't agree" / "we agree but it's too low a priority" / "we will address this".

Right now, when it comes to this issue it just looks like you are going to shove something in at the last possible moment without any chance for us to say whether it actually meets our needs or not just because the natives have gotten a bit too restless and you (collective "you") feel the need to do something. That may be totally unfair but that's what it feels like. And a 30 second post that you could have made two months ago would have totally removed any such feeling.

 

[Han Zulu]

Also - we do have some news on the synthesis recipes, we'll get that out to you as soon as possible too. Just finalising the details. Essentially, we've listened, and you should be able to do roughly the same amount as you currently can. It should be roughly the same as it is in-game now.

Wonderful to hear! Thank you. [cool]

 

[Han Zulu]

Thanks Ed, that's great. But why does it take until after what we're told is "as close to the 3.0 release build as possible" before anyone from FDev even acknowledges that the issue exists? A 30 second post along the lines of "we hear you & understand and will address this" could have been posted ages ago - this exact issue was raised in the Focussed Feedback threads on December 1st.

We know you can't afford the time to engage in every single thread but perhaps you could just throw us the odd crumb to let us know that you are at least aware of specific issues? Otherwise there really is zero difference between "we don't listen" / "we listen but don't understand" / "we understand but don't agree" / "we agree but it's too low a priority" / "we will address this".

Right now, when it comes to this issue it just looks like you are going to shove something in at the last possible moment without any chance for us to say whether it actually meets our needs or not just because the natives have gotten a bit too restless and you (collective "you") feel the need to do something. That may be totally unfair but that's what it feels like. And a 30 second post that you could have made two months ago would have totally removed any such feeling.

Yeah. I have to chime in on this as well.

First of all, I love Elite Dangerous. It's one of my top 5 games, ever. And I love the updates and changes that come to the game. Some changes I like, some I don't like as much, but most of the time, they're acceptable and you just have to learn to live with them.

However, when there is some issue or question it is extremely silent from the dev team that it's been heard. I'm with you Allitnill, just getting a confirmation of some kind that it's been heard and hopefully considered early on would be helpful. Just a little post like Ed just did, that's all that's needed. Don't need "this is how we're fixing it," but "we've seen it, hear the issue, and we're looking into it" is so much appreciated. It's all really about recognition. Feeling that you have a voice that's going through.

 

[Aashenfox]

Regarding who is and is not online? That's hidden from view except to forum administrators. It's a lot of data to render for how many people are on the forums, enabling it for all would look spammy, and would spike-up the server load considerably when you have thousands of folks hitting the page.

For reference on these forums right now...

Nice figures, and people say the game is dying, max participation two weeks ago. Keep on keeping on guys. /thumbsup (oh, and implement my suggestions of course, duh, thanks )

 

[Dakron Nova]

According to the current/near real time forum stats, there's currently 30 Frontier Employees (or varying roles) viewing the forums. Especially the 3.0 feedback forum, 3.0 bug reports forum, suggestions forum and Dangerous Discussion. Most of them are taking in feedback from folks, fixing bugs, and so forth.

This doesn't always translate to them replying to threads that they're reading. They're quite busy this week into next week, and have been very busy since the turn of the new year.

Well.....they at least have the forums minimised on the taskbar.

..............I'll get my coat.

 

[Dakron Nova]

Regarding who is and is not online? That's hidden from view except to forum administrators. It's a lot of data to render for how many people are on the forums, enabling it for all would look spammy, and would spike-up the server load considerably when you have thousands of folks hitting the page.

For reference on these forums right now...

Hey there,

Thanks for your feedback. You are right when you say that we're very busy right now getting ready for Beyond release and preparing what comes after that, too.

The developers, and the community team read the comments and feedback on the forums, social media, reddit and more, and communicate as much as we possibly can when we have clear and considered information to convey. For example, Sandro is putting together a post right now all about the changes coming with Crime and Punishment... much in the same way he did about the changes with Engineering. While you may not see comments and replies all day every day, everything is read through carefully and passed on to the development team, all of which are working very hard to make the best Elite Dangerous experience possible!

We have our weekly newsletter where we update our community on all the latest information, we hold regular livestreams where we discuss upcoming content with the developers (such as this Thursday's livestream which is a Q&A with the Lead Designer). We post patch notes, we update the community with post-livestream Q&As, and summaries of what we showed off on the streams. The focused feedback forum is an example of where we're making an effort to bring the community in to the discussion on future updates (and we'll be putting increased focus on this, and giving special attention to the FFF, when putting together the features coming as part of Beyond. We communicate through our social media channels, through individual channels on Discord, our developers are active on the forums, we send out emails to groups to engage with them and find out what in-game and out-of-game activity they have planned, and much more. Tonight, I'll be a guest on Lave Radio, talking about beta 3 and beyond (no pun intended).

Thanks.

Also - we do have some news on the synthesis recipes, we'll get that out to you as soon as possible too. Just finalising the details. Essentially, we've listened, and you should be able to do roughly the same amount as you currently can. It should be roughly the same as it is in-game now.

Seriously guys stop posting so much....its ridiculous the forums are so full of FD posts that theres no room for CMDRs to post.

 

[Mengy]

Thanks Ed, that's great. But why does it take until after what we're told is "as close to the 3.0 release build as possible" before anyone from FDev even acknowledges that the issue exists? A 30 second post along the lines of "we hear you & understand and will address this" could have been posted ages ago - this exact issue was raised in the Focussed Feedback threads on December 1st.

We know you can't afford the time to engage in every single thread but perhaps you could just throw us the odd crumb to let us know that you are at least aware of specific issues? Otherwise there really is zero difference between "we don't listen" / "we listen but don't understand" / "we understand but don't agree" / "we agree but it's too low a priority" / "we will address this".

Right now, when it comes to this issue it just looks like you are going to shove something in at the last possible moment without any chance for us to say whether it actually meets our needs or not just because the natives have gotten a bit too restless and you (collective "you") feel the need to do something. That may be totally unfair but that's what it feels like. And a 30 second post that you could have made two months ago would have totally removed any such feeling.

Well said, agreed completely. I was one of the posters who raised the FSD boost recipe issues in December, to date we have no idea if Frontier is even aware of it, sadly.

EDIT: just saw Eds post, does this mean the Niobium reqs for L3 boost will be lowered?

 

[PiLhEaD]

....For reference on these forums right now...

Always an interesting statistic for me the 90:9:1 ratio of players to forum viewers to forum participants.

Please accept my vaguely madeupium ratio. It must made an interesting prism through which to read the sometimes passionate debates we have here.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The developers are concentrated on the code, not on the forums, no doubt

 

[babelfisch]

Regarding who is and is not online? That's hidden from view except to forum administrators. It's a lot of data to render for how many people are on the forums, enabling it for all would look spammy, and would spike-up the server load considerably when you have thousands of folks hitting the page.

For reference on these forums right now...

The forum is dying!!!

 

[Riverside]

Hey there,

Thanks for your feedback. You are right when you say that we're very busy right now getting ready for Beyond release and preparing what comes after that, too.

The developers, and the community team read the comments and feedback on the forums, social media, reddit and more, and communicate as much as we possibly can when we have clear and considered information to convey. For example, Sandro is putting together a post right now all about the changes coming with Crime and Punishment... much in the same way he did about the changes with Engineering. While you may not see comments and replies all day every day, everything is read through carefully and passed on to the development team, all of which are working very hard to make the best Elite Dangerous experience possible!

We have our weekly newsletter where we update our community on all the latest information, we hold regular livestreams where we discuss upcoming content with the developers (such as this Thursday's livestream which is a Q&A with the Lead Designer). We post patch notes, we update the community with post-livestream Q&As, and summaries of what we showed off on the streams. The focused feedback forum is an example of where we're making an effort to bring the community in to the discussion on future updates (and we'll be putting increased focus on this, and giving special attention to the FFF, when putting together the features coming as part of Beyond. We communicate through our social media channels, through individual channels on Discord, our developers are active on the forums, we send out emails to groups to engage with them and find out what in-game and out-of-game activity they have planned, and much more. Tonight, I'll be a guest on Lave Radio, talking about beta 3 and beyond (no pun intended).

Thanks.

I look forward to seeing what Sandro has to say on the C&P changes, hopefully it will provide some context for discussion and direction for community suggestions more in line with the company's plans for future development, to temper the more extreme viewpoints of the community.

I would like to remind you (as a company) that among your list of things communicated, regular Dev updates (on the forum) and sneak peeks (in the newsletter) are both missing and have been missed for some considerable time now with no explanation or justification. There is currently only a single forum post (from Zac in October) that gives any information at all about potential future premium content.

With the return of dev updates and sneak peeks there will be less wild speculation. The community will have more realistic expectations of both timescales and likely future content, and similarly paranoia, doom and gloom will also be reduced, helping to bring a divided community closer together.

With more extreme viewholders tempered the community overall stand a better chance of finding some common ground rather than the growing trend for polarised views and a lack of respect for different playstyles as we currently see.

You (as a company) are in the ideal position to make a difference, the community is unlikely to unite without the company's input. A few weeks ago we had a flurry of activity on here that was excellent, Dom even got his own appreciation thread. I'd like to see that level of open communication maintained. I don't think it's an unreasonable request, it's all stuff that used to happen but has since petered out.

 

[Abomination]

I love cats!

(hey, it worked on the Diablo III forums, so why not here? :x)

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Church of the Space cat member here.

Cats you say

 

[Knightshark]

Well, the feedback forum really wasn’t handled well, and I presume you know that. Maybe I am wrong, but what I hear from you the community managers sounds more and more like generic marketing talk. This is also the issue I have with most livestreams where issues are basically never acknowledged or discussed, but the opposite “we respect players time” (but will increase the grind nevertheless). This really disappoints me, and I wonder more and more if spending hundreds $ on paintjobs and second accounts to blindly support you was such a good idea, not as a punishment but because maybe you think if money keeps coming all is fine, no need to engage with players feedback.