FDL Build?

[Random Player]

Hello PvP'ers

So, I have done lots of searching online for my answers but I am going to take this to the Pros here. What is the FDL build?

I'm finding a lot of different builds online but they vary a lot. I am not so much concerned with the weapons as I am with the core and optional internals. Do I go 5A Prismo, 5C Bi-Weave? Do I go 4A Prismo with and 5A/4A SCB, or as I have seen others, the 5C Bi's and 2/4A SCBs, or how about, I've seen, 4B SCBs? Best Hull? Military grade, Reactive, lightweight and DP? Do you even need SCBs with Bi-Weaves and Fast Charge?

This build is for, hopefully, mastering PvP Combat, period. I am not going to use this ship for anything NPC, real players only.

So far, I have the basic, with all A Rated PP, FSD, Distro and Thrusters. I've gone with D Rated LS and Sensors. Would Long Range be better than Wide Angel, or just straight lightweight sensors? I am going to pause it up there and hopefully someone can school me, please.

As far as weapons go, I think I am going with what I like and feel comfy with, a combo of a Huge MC and Hammers. I suck with PAs but I do like my Advanced PAs, a little better with them over stock ones. I am open to other suggestions. My ship is called Jack Hammer, so I thought the Imperial Hammers would be nice, live up to it's name, and I really like the Hammers and pretty good with them.

Anyway, I can build what I think might work, but I'd like to hear from the Pros out there already doing it. Maybe see some links to builds would be great too! So I can see hull and shield strengths, resistances, slot placements and sizes, etc.

I am not looking for anyone to build the ship for me... No, I can do the grunt work, I just need the framework, the ENG and figuring out resistances and the rest is something I've done a lot, so that shouldn't be an issue. Just, framework build would be a great help.

Thank you! Much appreciated on any advice, for the "Meta", I guess they call, build.​

 

[GroG79]

You will have to find which glove fits you best. Not which is the best as this is always up for debate.

See a build as sliders you can use. From strong to weaker shields. From heavy power usage to a colder running ship. From bursty power usage to throwing down the gauntlet. Are you good at ramming perhaps?

Get to know the ship and find out what your weak points are. You can always make sure you have multiple outfittings in your shipyard to counter other captains.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

What is the FDL build?

The current meta is http://s.orbis.zone/b9_s (SCBs should be turned on if they're off when you open the link, it's a coriolis bug.)
Don't forget to turn off your trainer, Red House.
Some notes on general variations:

• If you're facing a lot of gimbals, swap a heavy booster for a reinforced chaff. If you're consistently running hot enough to proc thermal conduit, ammo cap would probably start malfunctioning.
• You can swap which side the rails are on, but keep both of them on the same side and the superpen on the outer of the hardpoints to make it easier to see when you're lining up its reticule for module sniping.
• If you'd rather fly 4pa/1 rail keep the feedback cascade. Also works 5PA. Additional PAs should be efficient/thermal conduit, to the extent that some people will skip the target lock breaker for an extra thermal conduit. Phasing isn't worth it in the current meta.
• Having a spare medium efficient/dispersal field PA can be handy if you're dong wingfights where you're peeling a lot of opponents using gimbals - I would use it instead of the target lock breaker in such a scenario. The hassle of swapping it in and out for one off fights means I don't bother unless I know there'll be a LOT of gimbals.
• If you're doing comp-style organised wing fights, swap the interdictor for another heavy/deep 1D HRP, swap the FSD for a 2D and the fuel tank for a 1C. Marginal gains.
• Lightweight life support and sensors are marginal gains but currently everyone is running hot to proc thermal conduit, so lightweight sensors can be a liability due to reduced integrity. Some people are putting long range on their sensors, which can help to keep target lock if your opponents like to hit silent running.
• If you're doing a lot of 1v1s you may want a bit of extra mass and healthpool from military/mirrored/reactive armour. I wouldn't necessarily recommend when learning as they're extra rebuy and probably won't win you the fight early on. If you pick one of these, engineer lightweight/deep. If you go mirrored make your smallest HRP kinetic/deep, if you go reactive make your smallest HRP thermal/deep. Currently mirrored is favoured, as most incoming damage in PvP is absolute or thermal weighted, but it won't make or break the fight unless it's really down to the line.
• When you're very new and still learning pip management I'd suggest replacing the SCBs with 4D HRP, heavy/deep and the heatsink with a chaff. It's one less thing to worry about. Until you're good with the pacing of the fight and managing your pips for incoming damage, SCBs can be a liability - they get cancelled and you don't get the most out of your shields, so you're better served with static hull integrity.
• If you make some of the above alterations (more efficient PAs less rails, replacing SCBs with hull), you may be able to adjust your power plant to OC3/thermal or even armoured. An armoured plant is generally better if you can fit your power inside it. OC4/thermal is a catch all that will give you enough power for most variations you could sensibly try and will help run hot for thermal conduit.

The gains of a 4A prismo instead of 5A (on 4 booster builds) are really marginal and you'll only get them if you can guarantee you won't get your banks cancelled even once. So - it's a liability.
Bi-weaves are a significant loss of healthpool that you'll only make back if you can really pace a fight to get as much time regenerating them as possible, and to extend the fight and stretch it out. If you're against competent opponents, they won't let you do this and the time on target they have will mean that the bi-weave is just a flat loss to your healthpool.
4B banks have an extra cell for a total marginal gain to the MJ they provide. It's also an extra opportunity to be cascaded, so you lose that marginal gain, and also an extra load of heat that you don't have a spare heatsink to manage, and twice as much mass as the As. So it's a liability for a few extra MJ you probably won't actually see.
Some people are currently experimenting with 4 rails and a multicannon on a prismo with hull. I wouldn't recommend learning in this unless you enjoy cooking all your modules off before your shields drop.

 

[Jazod]

Source: https://youtu.be/-ozUQFYWNMo

 

[Random Player]

Source: https://youtu.be/-ozUQFYWNMo

Thanks. So, really, no MRP on this eh? Hmm. I guess I am relying nearly all on the Prismatics. Interesting. OK, will get to building! Thanks!

 

[Dragsham]

This is my fdl. A railer running hot with a fk ton of heatsinks. Plasma ammo extra fuel tank. Shes carrier based so fsd isn't an issue.
And yes...very very effective.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

 

[Random Player]

By the way... I am looking to get THIS good! Although, he flies 99% FAO, which is NOT something I am capable of doing, period. I don't no why, but there's something I am missing and I don't necessarily think it's "practice".

 

[Deleted member 192138]

there's something I am missing and I don't necessarily think it's "practice".

It's true, Hazzmango doesn't practice. He was born this way.

 

[Jazod]

This is my fdl. A railer running hot with a fk ton of heatsinks. Plasma ammo extra fuel tank. Shes carrier based so fsd isn't an issue.
And yes...very very effective.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

That’s a pretty similar build as to what was used in the finals for the previous pvp league. Though on those builds we run it on 4 booster prismatics and with 3 super penetrator rails and a single feedback cascade (as well as using either efficient lr overcharged on the huge multi)

 

[Random Player]

That’s a pretty similar build as to what was used in the finals for the previous pvp league. Though on those builds we run it on 4 booster prismatics and with 3 super penetrator rails and a single feedback cascade (as well as using either efficient lr overcharged on the huge multi)

So, I see no SCBs? I always thought SCBs were a must have, in a "Pro" build. Not the case? I read a thousand times that a ship without SCB is a "amature" build. Not saying this one is obviously, but VERY curious about their need and usefulness. I understand, or think I do, that a ship with SCB and Prismos is the optimal combo for PvP fight endurance? The build you have here, aside from all the heatsinks, would be pretty much what I would build, cause my mind always says, "Add as many HRP as possible" and Boosters!!! Ha!

 

[Morbad]

Thanks. So, really, no MRP on this eh? Hmm. I guess I am relying nearly all on the Prismatics. Interesting. OK, will get to building! Thanks!

Small MRP will partially melt before you get much use out of it and will vanish after the first shot that hits a module anyway. Could take an armored PP, but 1.1k hull means that unless you're facing dedicated railgunners, the hull is going to go first.

If you know your opponents have feedback rails and will be fighting more than one so evading them is unlikely, you might consider ditching the banks in favor 4D HD HRPs and sticking a D2 MRP in the class 2 slot.

 

[Random Player]

Here's an FDL I have now. I use it for NPC and never lost a fight. How do you guys think it would fair up against a real player and what would you change? Thanks!

Mr. Scary

 

[Morbad]

So, I see no SCBs? I always thought SCBs were a must have, in a "Pro" build. Not the case? I read a thousand times that a ship without SCB is a "amature" build.

Dual A4 SCBs is only about 1k MJ of extra sheilding total....that's a ~33% increase in total shield pool, if you get every bank off without being cascaded or wasting them. It's worth it if you can pull it off, as shield is superior to hull, but given the prevalence of feedback cascade, dumping the SCBs for HRPs can be wise, especially if you could use the power or heatsinks somewhere else (like on a railgun setup).

 

[Deleted member 192138]

So, I see no SCBs? I always thought SCBs were a must have, in a "Pro" build. Not the case? I read a thousand times that a ship without SCB is a "amature" build. Not saying this one is obviously, but VERY curious about their need and usefulness. I understand, or think I do, that a ship with SCB and Prismos is the optimal combo for PvP fight endurance? The build you have here, aside from all the heatsinks, would be pretty much what I would build, cause my mind always says, "Add as many HRP as possible" and Boosters!!! Ha!

On a prismo build with quad rail if you have an overcharged plant to run an SCB you cook too fast.

 

[Gully Foyle]

The current meta is http://s.orbis.zone/b9_s (SCBs should be turned on if they're off when you open the link, it's a coriolis bug.)
Don't forget to turn off your trainer, Red House.
Some notes on general variations:

• If you're facing a lot of gimbals, swap a heavy booster for a reinforced chaff. If you're consistently running hot enough to proc thermal conduit, ammo cap would probably start malfunctioning.
• You can swap which side the rails are on, but keep both of them on the same side and the superpen on the outer of the hardpoints to make it easier to see when you're lining up its reticule for module sniping.
• If you'd rather fly 4pa/1 rail keep the feedback cascade. Also works 5PA. Additional PAs should be efficient/thermal conduit, to the extent that some people will skip the target lock breaker for an extra thermal conduit. Phasing isn't worth it in the current meta.
• Having a spare medium efficient/dispersal field PA can be handy if you're dong wingfights where you're peeling a lot of opponents using gimbals - I would use it instead of the target lock breaker in such a scenario. The hassle of swapping it in and out for one off fights means I don't bother unless I know there'll be a LOT of gimbals.
• If you're doing comp-style organised wing fights, swap the interdictor for another heavy/deep 1D HRP, swap the FSD for a 2D and the fuel tank for a 1C. Marginal gains.
• Lightweight life support and sensors are marginal gains but currently everyone is running hot to proc thermal conduit, so lightweight sensors can be a liability due to reduced integrity. Some people are putting long range on their sensors, which can help to keep target lock if your opponents like to hit silent running.
• If you're doing a lot of 1v1s you may want a bit of extra mass and healthpool from military/mirrored/reactive armour. I wouldn't necessarily recommend when learning as they're extra rebuy and probably won't win you the fight early on. If you pick one of these, engineer lightweight/deep. If you go mirrored make your smallest HRP kinetic/deep, if you go reactive make your smallest HRP thermal/deep. Currently mirrored is favoured, as most incoming damage in PvP is absolute or thermal weighted, but it won't make or break the fight unless it's really down to the line.
• When you're very new and still learning pip management I'd suggest replacing the SCBs with 4D HRP, heavy/deep and the heatsink with a chaff. It's one less thing to worry about. Until you're good with the pacing of the fight and managing your pips for incoming damage, SCBs can be a liability - they get cancelled and you don't get the most out of your shields, so you're better served with static hull integrity.
• If you make some of the above alterations (more efficient PAs less rails, replacing SCBs with hull), you may be able to adjust your power plant to OC3/thermal or even armoured. An armoured plant is generally better if you can fit your power inside it. OC4/thermal is a catch all that will give you enough power for most variations you could sensibly try and will help run hot for thermal conduit.

The gains of a 4A prismo instead of 5A (on 4 booster builds) are really marginal and you'll only get them if you can guarantee you won't get your banks cancelled even once. So - it's a liability.
Bi-weaves are a significant loss of healthpool that you'll only make back if you can really pace a fight to get as much time regenerating them as possible, and to extend the fight and stretch it out. If you're against competent opponents, they won't let you do this and the time on target they have will mean that the bi-weave is just a flat loss to your healthpool.
4B banks have an extra cell for a total marginal gain to the MJ they provide. It's also an extra opportunity to be cascaded, so you lose that marginal gain, and also an extra load of heat that you don't have a spare heatsink to manage, and twice as much mass as the As. So it's a liability for a few extra MJ you probably won't actually see.
Some people are currently experimenting with 4 rails and a multicannon on a prismo with hull. I wouldn't recommend learning in this unless you enjoy cooking all your modules off before your shields drop.

Just wow. Great advice and super detailed too.

 

[Random Player]

Just wow. Great advice and super detailed too.

Yeah, that looks like what I was thinking is the "Meta". Would this work with 1 MC LR/Corrosive and 4 Hammers LR/SP? I've noticed the Hammers seem to run much cooler than I was lead to believe, according to some sites I've seen state. At least the two I have on a Python, fire 'em both together and heat hardly moves. I wish, like on this build, there was at least one extra slot for a MRP. And thanks fort the detail! No Trainer Nope!

 

[Random Player]

On a prismo build with quad rail if you have an overcharged plant to run an SCB you cook too fast.

On "Cooking"... what would be the max heat your FDL can take without hurting the ship. I mean, if it hit say 120, just to use a number, at times, is this going to bring the hurt? Is there a target heat limit to watch out for?

 

[Deleted member 192138]

On "Cooking"... what would be the max heat your FDL can take without hurting the ship. I mean, if it hit say 120, just to use a number, at times, is this going to bring the hurt? Is there a target heat limit to watch out for?

You can sustain 120, dipping up and down, for quite a few minutes in a fight. The issue is when you stop paying attention and the heat sustains and starts spiralling up - meaning you have to stop pushing out damage to give it time to come back under 100. Meanwhile you're still taking damage from them. This is the trick with thermal conduit - staying just above 100 for most of the fight, so you get the damage buff but can dip back down when you're not getting plasma shots off. If you stay too hot for too long, your weapons break and your sensors go and then you can't do any damage, even if your hull is still holding on (though most of us will have seen someone cook themselves til dead before their shields have even dropped).

 

[Deleted member 192138]

Yeah, that looks like what I was thinking is the "Meta". Would this work with 1 MC LR/Corrosive and 4 Hammers LR/SP? I've noticed the Hammers seem to run much cooler than I was lead to believe, according to some sites I've seen state. At least the two I have on a Python, fire 'em both together and heat hardly moves. I wish, like on this build, there was at least one extra slot for a MRP. And thanks fort the detail! No Trainer Nope!

Hammers will run decently hotter than normal rails, especially with 4 of them, for not a huge amount of extra DPS (maybe even a loss, if you're not consistently on target with all three hammer bursts where you would be on target with 1 rail shot). They seem fun but usually I think of them as a questionable sidegrade rather than an upgrade. As for how hot they'll run in practice - depends on the ship they're on, the engineering they have and how the plant is engineered (for 4 rails, you really want armoured).

 

[Random Player]

You can sustain 120, dipping up and down, for quite a few minutes in a fight. The issue is when you stop paying attention and the heat sustains and starts spiralling up - meaning you have to stop pushing out damage to give it time to come back under 100. Meanwhile you're still taking damage from them. This is the trick with thermal conduit - staying just above 100 for most of the fight, so you get the damage buff but can dip back down when you're not getting plasma shots off. If you stay too hot for too long, your weapons break and your sensors go and then you can't do any damage, even if your hull is still holding on (though most of us will have seen someone cook themselves til dead before their shields have even dropped).

I have this FDL about mostly done, just need to go get my EXP effects and weapon loadout. Question... I'd like to go with 1 MC and 4 Hammers, but would the Huge PA do me better than the MC? And, as far as the PA, would the Advanced Plasma do me even better than the Huge standard PA? Thanks!