Fer de lance and expected python nerf

[Mike Evans]

removing ONE THIRD of its shield strength is a minor nerf?? Is that some kind of developer joke i dont get?? When are you fixing turrets so that they are finally useable in big ships and dont constantly shoot the cops? THIS is the important stuff to fix, you know.

It's minor because it was too damn high in the first place. It's now an appropriate level. Being used to the over powered shield level might make it seem like a major change for you but not to anyone who hasn't piloted the python before. For them it will make sense that the ship is what it is. As if you're suddenly all going to flock to another ship once the change goes in. The python is still the best damn fighting ship in the game in the right hands.

 

[Tuco_Ramires]

Python like an asp is MEDIUM vessel. So thats why python is maneuverable. Unfortunately it is slow.

So your argument is invalid.

@cherny_prapor, you have python? invulnerable? are you joking right?

This.
I don't get this nerf mentality either.

 

[Mike Evans]

I don't think that was particularly professional; his point was Sandro HAD stated that it was just the manuverability you were looking at.
I have no problem with you balancing how you feel fits best but the Dev's really should communicate and 'sing from the same song-sheet' as it were.

I don't think I should be professional given the level of hyperbole and ridiculousness that exists in these kinds of threads. But in effect I'm being hypocritical because I am reading and replying to these posts despite what I say. Anyway Sandy told me I should lower the shield strength in the first place so go blame him

 

[Synthetic Frost]

removing ONE THIRD of its shield strength is a minor nerf?? Is that some kind of developer joke i dont get?? When are you fixing turrets so that they are finally useable in big ships and dont constantly shoot the cops? THIS is the important stuff to fix, you know.

It's not removing one third of it's total shields. It's removing one third of the BASE stat. There's a a major difference. All it means that it scales a little bit less now on the higher ranked upgrades.

 

[SuperkewL]

Whinge whinge whinge, moan moan moan etc. Doesn't really inspire us to take what you're saying seriously.

LOL, I love it!

 

[Yanaran]

It's minor because it was too damn high in the first place. It's now an appropriate level. Being used to the over powered shield level might make it seem like a major change for you but not to anyone who hasn't piloted the python before. For them it will make sense that the ship is what it is. As if you're suddenly all going to flock to another ship once the change goes in. The python is still the best damn fighting ship in the game in the right hands.

I think 33% sounds reasonable and it will fit in where I originally though it would, somewhere between Anaconda and Asp. First time I launched in a Python and got into my first fight I was frankly shocked at how strong the shields were. Most of the time in a Python you never drop below 50% anyway so it's not going to make a big difference unless you get in some serious trouble. Maybe I'll have to buy a shield cell just in case.

 

[Liare]

Whinge whinge whinge, moan moan moan etc. Doesn't really inspire us to take what you're saying seriously.

Anyway I don't recall ever saying exactly what I was going to do to address the fact that the python is way better than I intended it to be so chill out, step back and think rationally for a second. -33% to base shield strength is a minor change. No one is going to be suddenly exploding where they were once owning because of that. The game has all the tools available to you to ensure that your shields never get low enough to even fail so if you expect you were always just about to lose your shields in your python before you won the fight yet again then perhaps you want to invest in some more shield cells, a better generator or ensure you're not just taking that many hits.

what does "-33% base shield" mean in actual terms ? are you cutting a third of it's shielding away and passed it off as a minor change ? making it potentially reliant on the Shield Cell Boosters that area also getting nerf-sticked (quite rightly) ?

it's quite annoying that we cannot see "under" the hood and understand the implications here.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

I don't think I should be professional given the level of hyperbole and ridiculousness that exists in these kinds of threads. But in effect I'm being hypocritical because I am reading and replying to these posts despite what I say. Anyway Sandy told me I should lower the shield strength in the first place so go blame him

I don't really wan't to argue with a Dev, however;You are a paid professional and should be capable of dealing with 'whiners' on a public forum without resorting to similar language, YOU should hold yourself to a higher professional standard,even when angry, that's what being 'professional' is.

 

[Lanatir]

It's minor because it was too damn high in the first place. It's now an appropriate level. Being used to the over powered shield level might make it seem like a major change for you but not to anyone who hasn't piloted the python before. For them it will make sense that the ship is what it is. As if you're suddenly all going to flock to another ship once the change goes in. The python is still the best damn fighting ship in the game in the right hands.

I dont even fly a Python, so i dont know if what you say is true or not. what ticks me off is that instead of fixing the broken stuff (turrets not useable cause they friendly fire the whole star system once you shoot them for example, or the orca and the dropship, that are not even worth one tenth of what they sell for) you decide to start nerfing stuff. I mean...if you say it is just a minor thing, then why isnt it minor enough to LEAVE it the way it is? Oh, and i know you are a developer and all, but what Wolf Starslayer said is perfectly right. Your way of reacting to a perfectly legitimate, but harshly worded, concern was not really professional at all. We WERE told, in fact, that the only thing that would be changed about the Python would be a MINOR nerf to its maneuverability, and holding you people for your word is our good right as customers.

 

[xondk]

Removing a third of shield does sound like a bit, though I don't know the technical stuff of the balancing, but so far all changes have been sound.

That said maybe if you could indicate in-game in description or somesuch what the python is meant to be in terms of combat/setup/tactic? Since I think that one of the problems may be people flying it as a fighter and not as a well battleship? or somesuch, that said could also be people are flying it as a fighter because they are using fixed weapons in pvp, since a chaff launcher will make turreted weapons practically useless. Maybe give large turrets better ability to hit? or maybe give ships an accuracy modifier for turrets? Small fast ships would mean that their turrets would need to move faster and tracking could be an issue, but slower ships would not be twisting and turning as much and as such turrets have an easier time tracking?

 

[Jaeger]

I believe Sandro mentioned something about toning down the Python's speed or maneuverability, but that was the only area they were concerned.

They don't really want one ship to rule them all, so I'd expect a bit of tweaking for all the high end ships, but no big wind ups with the nerf bat.

The whole design is borked.

If a ship costs 57M and a further 70M to upgrade, there is no reason to balance it against a 10s of thousand ship or the like.

If Elite Dangerous balanced player interaction by associating pilot rankings, and had a pvp flag much like wow does with it's honour system; then there would be better game balance. Take the grief out of the game by taking the grief out of the game.

The attempt to create a new type of PvP universe is a disaster. It's a free for all with insignificant bounty penalties for the badly behaved. The lack of game content in the game is not made up by allowing well equipped players to make victims of vulnerable players.

Disaster is the kindest expression of disappointment I can make.

 

[Toscaner]

I don't think I should be professional given the level of hyperbole and ridiculousness that exists in these kinds of threads. But in effect I'm being hypocritical because I am reading and replying to these posts despite what I say. Anyway Sandy told me I should lower the shield strength in the first place so go blame him

we appreciate all your input and patience. it really helps to understand the internals of the game. don't get demotivated by a bad tone of some people. you know, internet forums...
we are gonna blame Sandro too, don't worry

 

[Raz0rking]

It's minor because it was too damn high in the first place. It's now an appropriate level. Being used to the over powered shield level might make it seem like a major change for you but not to anyone who hasn't piloted the python before. For them it will make sense that the ship is what it is. As if you're suddenly all going to flock to another ship once the change goes in. The python is still the best damn fighting ship in the game in the right hands.

what a load of...well you know it.
Oh let us give the ship a better shieldrating than the conda. Let us give it a bigass agility (i butcher the other word). You KNEW axactly what it was going to be like. Or dont you test your stuff before releasing it on the masses?
And now...after so many people worked their ass off to get one...Oh we made a mistake...let us weaken it by 30%. What do you expect? All the people who have one going YAY. A effed up nerf again.

Every frigin ship above the sidewinder can be the best fu ing fighting ship in the right hands. Skill over gear!

 

[Shanaeri]

I guess it comes down to what sort of game do FD want? Do they want it so the more money you spend the better the ship, or the more money you spend the more different the ship.


There is also the question as to how they want us to play the ship game. Own multiple ships to do different things, or own one or two ships to do them all.


If it's the former then all multi-role ships should be reviewed, as if Python is too powerful then so is Cobra and Asp for the amount they cost. If people are saying Cobra rivals a fighter class ship, the viper then what's the point in Viper. Asp is kinda in a class of it's own atm, but if fer de lance isn't noticeably superior then that too needs to be looked at. Also, if multi-ship is the way to go, the please review the multi-ship system. If I have to change always keep going back to the same place, or use a disposable shuttle ship just because I feel like fighting then it'll drive me mad.


I think we're already seeing hints of the direction they are thinking of taking Python. It's a large class ship means it'll probably end up handling like a clipper, 33% means that when you are down to the 3rd ring on your shields now, you'll be out of shields then.
.
The issue is much bigger however than just one ship. It's one of gaming philosophy and intent.
.
Being provocative 33% is never a small cut, I bet if someone or a company has 33% cut in revenue the shareholders would not see it as a minor reduction

 

[SuBSynk]

I don't think I should be professional given the level of hyperbole and ridiculousness that exists in these kinds of threads. But in effect I'm being hypocritical because I am reading and replying to these posts despite what I say. Anyway Sandy told me I should lower the shield strength in the first place so go blame him

This what i love about the FD dev's, i expect people to complain and whine about professionalism etc but i personally prefer humans to PR robot speak and when called a liar you have the right to call them out for their whining and general overreactions.

Good on you Mike

 

[Toscaner]

This what i love about the FD dev's, i expect people to complain and whine about professionalism etc but i personally prefer humans to PR robot speak and when called a liar you have the right to call them out for their whining and general overreactions.

Good on you Mike

indeed. i thought it was hilarious and appropriate. honesty is not a bad thing.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

we appreciate all your input and patience. it really helps to understand the internals of the game. don't get demotivated by a bad tone of some people. you know, internet forums...
we are gonna blame Sandro too, don't worry

+1 rep to you sir..Burn Sandro at the stake (joke)

 

[Eagle Eye]

I think what people says is that we would rather some game mechanics that are considered not working properly (be it bugs or easily abused) to be fixed first, see how it affects the "metagame" (or whatever its called), and then balance the ships.

 

[SushiCW]

Mike (and Sarah and other devs):

Please don't let the rude players get to you. Having to deal with this crap is more or less the price of being engaged with the community. Thank you for not compromising your vision to appease the (unpleasable) masses.

 

[SuBSynk]

If Elite Dangerous had a pvp flag much like wow does with it's honour system; then there would be better game balance.

We have that already its called "open play" you don't want player interaction and/or pvp go group/solo