Fer de lance and expected python nerf

[Poseidal]

1 second for a 180 is not what the python can achieve, FYI. Do you own one and flew it a bit? If not, please get one first.

Secondly, when real world physics are thrown in the discussion, it should be so in a realistic way. Inertia exist in vacuum as it is related to mass. The python would be designed, if "real", to withstand its directional thrusters. Or the design team would not do their job correctly.

Thirdly, materials capable of resisting that kind of force are already designed now at the JPL/CalTech. I don't think it is so far fetched to have them applied to the ships of ED.

Yes, but you would assume other, similarly sized, similar role ships would also have the same type of performance, no? (if the Python is the 'optimum'; if not the lower mass ships should be able to handle a turn even faster)

 

[AlexRyder]

This is just wrong a Sidewinder should never be able to take out an Anaconda regardless of the skill of a player V's NPC. The AI on that ship is obviously very dumb it just can't cope with the tracking of it's tail.

Please, uninstall the game and throw your computer out of the window as you have completely missed the point.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Details from Mike about the Python changes in another thread...

So from a small turn nerf we gone to a 1/3 off it's shield, i'm more confused now.

 

[Slacker]

Details from Mike about the Python changes in another thread...

I find that wholly dispiriting.

 

[Jorlin]

So from a small turn nerf we gone to a 1/3 off it's shield, i'm more confused now.

me too.
but i'll wait how it turns out.
If those 17% agility reduction results in the need to (partially) fit gimballed weapons for fighting off vipers, the "hardpoint placement" argument gets kind of moot...

 

[Gomorragh]

anacondas main problem is that it has a huge weakspot for those who know how to kill it, and you can kill one while its still got 80+% hull left, thats the main thing that needs fixing on the anaconda, put all the 150k kill missions in pythons and then see if people think that its balanced.

 

[cherny_prapor]

1 second for a 180 is not what the python can achieve

I was exaggerating, of course. These numbers were arbitrary, I made them up "on the fly".

If we're talking about the Python as it is now, then, truthfully, I don't think that its turn speed is too much to be contrary to laws of physics, but it IS enough to make Pythons maneuver on par with much lighter ships in the game, thus creating a game balance issue. Like I said before, I haven't owned a Python, but I've fought lots of them, both in PVE and PVP. While I completely understand that it's absolutely OK for a Python to be able to fry my Cobra very quick with its guns and to have superior defenses, I think that it's totally not OK that it can easily out-maneuver me too.

P.S. Regarding the nerf - I agree that nerfing the shield sucks. They should have nerfed the maneuverability more than 17%, and possibly even buffed the shields: like I said before, big ships should be slow, but very tough.

 

[Alpha November]

Remove SCBs from the game, buff turret damage, problem solved. BTW, chaffs are only effective as long as you stay in the "cloud" that they produce, so if you pop a chaff while the enemy is IN FRONT of you, the cloud will stay behind you and won't have any effect.

Not sure that's right. I've done this lots of times and the enemy ship's fire has directed across me and to all sides until the chaff wore off. It makes you a bigger target I think so that you take less fire because the fire sweeps across and to the sides rather than wholly at you.

 

[Eagle Eye]

anacondas main problem is that it has a huge weakspot for those who know how to kill it, and you can kill one while its still got 80+% hull left, thats the main thing that needs fixing on the anaconda, put all the 150k kill missions in pythons and then see if people think that its balanced.

Still rather easy to kill. See my performance against 2 of them (one right after another) in a dinky triple fixed MC Eagle. I don't even have Chaff & does not need to pop SCB (I do pop one as precaution as I mess up and came face to face with one of it, but it was not needed as it didn't react fast enough as I immediately boosted past it. Pretty much the same tactic against Anaconda works

 

[cherny_prapor]

Not sure that's right. I've done this lots of times and the enemy ship's fire has directed across me and to all sides until the chaff wore off. It makes you a bigger target I think so that you take less fire because the fire sweeps across and to the sides rather than wholly at you.

I'll try to test that more. It's just that, when I fight someone with gimballs, and the enemy fires chaff, my guns go haywire only if I point them at the chaff cloud itself. As soon as the enemy ship leaves the cloud, the guns are OK again.

Then again, turrets can be affected differently (only tested with gimballs). Could also be a bug, for all I know.

 

[Alpha November]

I'll try to test that more. It's just that, when I fight someone with gimballs, and the enemy fires chaff, my guns go haywire only if I point them at the chaff cloud itself. As soon as the enemy ship leaves the cloud, the guns are OK again.

I'm thinking of the head to head charge where they come straight at you firing. Sort of like playing chicken, if you chaff and hold the line then that seems to have some benefits, doesn't eliminate hits but reduces quantity a bit.

 

[xondk]

It is kinda sad the whole nerf screaming, though that said if the maneuverability isn't hit 'too' hard and the pricing for it and its components are lowered a bit I think that would be alright. Course it remaining as is, is something I believe it should be, considering its price, and its description, it should remain where it is. And I personally think vipers are too good for their price, though the shield booster fix might solve that.

 

[Eagle Eye]

So from a small turn nerf we gone to a 1/3 off it's shield, i'm more confused now.

Oh well, at least they did not nerf the cargo spa... I better not give them more ideas...

I was grinding to a trading Python on the way to Anaconda as I am envisioning it to be my primary combat ship later on (get money to outfit it using connie), but I guess I will head straight to Anaconda from my Clipper (takes the least amount of time) and rethink what I will main for combat (prolly Asp/Viper)

 

[Vincent Starson]

Great so devs lied when they said they were just going to nerf the Python's maneuverability.
So they have to nerf it's shields and speed too?!
YOU HAD TIME TO FIX THIS DEVS. You had alpha, beta, gamma to tweak stats.Now the game is released, and you are nerfing ships based on PVP. Pythons die in seconds to viper with dumbfires already, a PDT or two won't save it.

Dev team appears focused on nerfing everything instead of addressing profession balance / adding gameplay. The bug fixes and new features are welcome, nerfing one of the best ships into the ground so a viper can kill it easier is not.

 

[Mike Evans]

Great so devs lied when they said they were just going to nerf the Python's maneuverability.
So they have to nerf it's shields and speed too?!
YOU HAD TIME TO FIX THIS DEVS. You had alpha, beta, gamma to tweak stats.Now the game is released, and you are nerfing ships based on PVP. Pythons die in seconds to viper with dumbfires already, a PDT or two won't save it.

Dev team appears focused on nerfing everything instead of addressing profession balance / adding gameplay. The bug fixes and new features are welcome, nerfing one of the best ships into the ground so a viper can kill it easier is not.

Whinge whinge whinge, moan moan moan etc. Doesn't really inspire us to take what you're saying seriously.

Anyway I don't recall ever saying exactly what I was going to do to address the fact that the python is way better than I intended it to be so chill out, step back and think rationally for a second. -33% to base shield strength is a minor change. No one is going to be suddenly exploding where they were once owning because of that. The game has all the tools available to you to ensure that your shields never get low enough to even fail so if you expect you were always just about to lose your shields in your python before you won the fight yet again then perhaps you want to invest in some more shield cells, a better generator or ensure you're not just taking that many hits.

 

[Trickle]

So from a small turn nerf we gone to a 1/3 off it's shield, i'm more confused now.

My guess is that it was far easier to nerf its combat ability, than to try an program a database change solution to neft its trading prowess - remove peoples populated cargo slots and reimburse them correctly.

I could have lived with its combat prowess as it was if thats all it was good at.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Really should not use SCB as crutch man...

 

[Lanatir]

Whinge whinge whinge, moan moan moan etc. Doesn't really inspire us to take what you're saying seriously.

Anyway I don't recall ever saying exactly what I was going to do to address the fact that the python is way better than I intended it to be so chill out, step back and think rationally for a second. -33% to base shield strength is a minor change. No one is going to be suddenly exploding where they were once owning because of that. The game has all the tools available to you to ensure that your shields never get low enough to even fail so if you expect you were always just about to lose your shields in your python before you won the fight yet again then perhaps you want to invest in some more shield cells, a better generator or ensure you're not just taking that many hits.

removing ONE THIRD of its shield strength is a minor nerf?? Is that some kind of developer joke i dont get?? When are you fixing turrets so that they are finally useable in big ships and dont constantly shoot the cops? THIS is the important stuff to fix, you know.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Whinge whinge whinge, moan moan moan etc. Doesn't really inspire us to take what you're saying seriously.

Anyway I don't recall ever saying exactly what I was going to do to address the fact that the python is way better than I intended it to be so chill out, step back and think rationally for a second. -33% to base shield strength is a minor change. No one is going to be suddenly exploding where they were once owning because of that. The game has all the tools available to you to ensure that your shields never get low enough to even fail so if you expect you were always just about to lose your shields in your python before you won the fight yet again then perhaps you want to invest in some more shield cells, a better generator or ensure you're not just taking that many hits.

I don't think that was particularly professional; his point was Sandro HAD stated that it was just the manuverability you were looking at.
I have no problem with you balancing how you feel fits best but the Dev's really should communicate and 'sing from the same song-sheet' as it were.

 

[Vincent Starson]

Whinge whinge whinge, moan moan moan etc. Doesn't really inspire us to take what you're saying seriously.

Anyway I don't recall ever saying exactly what I was going to do to address the fact that the python is way better than I intended it to be so chill out, step back and think rationally for a second. -33% to base shield strength is a minor change. No one is going to be suddenly exploding where they were once owning because of that. The game has all the tools available to you to ensure that your shields never get low enough to even fail so if you expect you were always just about to lose your shields in your python before you won the fight yet again then perhaps you want to invest in some more shield cells, a better generator or ensure you're not just taking that many hits.

I apologize for my tone. I agree it isn't helpful. I was upset and lost my tact.

I just want this game to be the best it can be (like everyone here) and I don't agree with the direction you're taking in regards to Python changes.

If you really think the nerfs are not that bad and is best for the game I will trust your decision.