Fer de lance and expected python nerf

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Maybe, looking at the thread the wisest solution would have bee:

" We are looking at rebalancing ALL ships in game as we feel that there are some discrepancies"

We would not have this thread then :D

Cheers Cmdr's
 
It is amazing for me to see how some of the players are expressing opinions about the incoming modifications way before they are going to try it. Try it, criticize it if you do not like the changes and convince FD that something is needed to changed again to do it right.

I agree but.

Man you must know it's not easy to farm for that snake. So, when you finally get it, it's quite annoying to hear that "Hey! Congrats, but, tough news, we are making a minor 33% nerf to shields AND to speed (think ~T6 for top speed)". It simply feels bad. You just buy something very expensive. Gets heavily nerfed. It feels bad, very bad. I think that's basically all there is to it.
 
Hey ... Aleksej, are you really sure yet about what we are talking here ???

Yes, there were other ships poised, but never in this mass
and there were ships that do not cost much.
For Python must you toil four months and now you have a merchant ship
for over 100 000 000 Cr

In order to participate in the discussions on level terms I have made a clear save 2 weeks ago and earned about 300M Cr in less than 1.5 weeks to be able to max out a Python. And I have no regrets in it being re-balanced. More ships are going to be added. And if you don't like the Python after the changes you can always sell it and buy another ship that would suit your purposes and gameplay better. There are always the options and ED is not limited by having a Python the way it looks right now.
 
It is amazing for me to see how some of the players are expressing opinions about the incoming modifications way before they are going to try it. Try it, criticize it if you do not like the changes and convince FD that something is needed to changed again to do it right.

I think all of this might stem from a kind of confusion.
Say that you are a ''have'' with 100 mCr, and that someone else is a ''have-not'' with just their ship and 8000 Cr. What comes with the money? How does a big ship compare with a small ship, in combat, in trading, in general awesome-factor? How does price scale with size? How does price scale with ship performance?

Should a ship ever be obsoleted by another, more expensive ship? IMO, no, but not everyone thinks that is/should be the case.
And finally, in any situation where two commanders find themselves in combat with each other, there is, in my opinion, two very large elephants that need to be dealt with: Shield Cells and running away. I'm not going to say ''It should work in this way'', but I would like FD to do it, at least.

What's the plan? What does FD think about this? Every major design document that takes up this kind of thing is horribly outdated, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people do not even know that they exist.
 
It is amazing for me to see how some of the players are expressing opinions about the incoming modifications way before they are going to try it. Try it, criticize it if you do not like the changes and convince FD that something is needed to changed again to do it right.

Aleksej We were given TWO numbers and only TWO numbers from a Game Designer being mad. We have no other information we only can react to what we have been told. If you want all of this to stop drag Mike or Mike and a Community Manager, to temper Mike's responses, and give us real information. Rules about the internet... do not give players information until you are ready for us to react to that information. If you want us to be mature and smart about our responses give us enough information to be mature and smart.
 
In order to participate in the discussions on level terms I have made a clear save 2 weeks ago and earned about 300M Cr in less than 1.5 weeks to be able to max out a Python. And I have no regrets in it being re-balanced. More ships are going to be added. And if you don't like the Python after the changes you can always sell it and buy another ship that would suit your purposes and gameplay better. There are always the options and ED is not limited by having a Python the way it looks right now.

Yeah great, so everybody should buy a Viper for PvP ? This will be so interesting.
 
In order to participate in the discussions on level terms I have made a clear save 2 weeks ago and earned about 300M Cr in less than 1.5 weeks to be able to max out a Python. And I have no regrets in it being re-balanced. More ships are going to be added. And if you don't like the Python after the changes you can always sell it and buy another ship that would suit your purposes and gameplay better. There are always the options and ED is not limited by having a Python the way it looks right now.

But by saying it's "too good" doesn't that mean we'll never see a ship "better" than the Python? Just seems really weird to me. I think Vipers should have to run from certain ships, but they don't. Nobody has to run except Trade ships. And you would think, in a Galaxy of billions with 100's of space stations that somebody out there would think "you know, let's make a ship with some cargo space, some kickarse thrusters, and make it match those pirates that are stealing all of our wares, we'll make it super expensive and the upkeep will be astronomical in comparison!" only to be answered with "nah, nobody will buy it, plus ... what if the Vipers can't take it out? Think of them man, think of the Vipers!"

This is just going to be Viper Vs. Viper gameplay. Asp? Viper can outmaneuver and gun you down. Python? Well, you could stick toe to toe but Viper was having troubles so we toned it down. Cobra? Viper should still win. Sidewinder? Viper can win. Anaconda? Viper with chaff. Any trade ship? Viper.
 
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Yeah great, so everybody should buy a Viper for PvP ? This will be so interesting.

For Independent ''PvP oriented'' pilots, then yes, I think a Viper would (should) be the optimal ship. It's the largest purely combat-focused ship currently in the game. Will be interesting to see what happens when the Fer-De-Lance and Vulture arrives.
And yes, it will be interesting to see what all these changes result in.
 
For Independent ''PvP oriented'' pilots, then yes, I think a Viper would (should) be the optimal ship. It's the largest purely combat-focused ship currently in the game. Will be interesting to see what happens when the Fer-De-Lance and Vulture arrives.
And yes, it will be interesting to see what all these changes result in.

So Viper being the best pvp ship is ok, but not the Python.
I think there is a problem somewhere :)
 
It is amazing for me to see how some of the players are expressing opinions about the incoming modifications way before they are going to try it. Try it, criticize it if you do not like the changes and convince FD that something is needed to changed again to do it right.


But yes, change, change, change ....... to no player is gone and more
. change
You can change all you want, it will create more unrest.

PS. You can regulate the MONOPOLY not change and still useable
others playing it all as it was given by the manufacturer!
 
Aleksej We were given TWO numbers and only TWO numbers from a Game Designer. We have no other information we only can react to what we have been told. If you want all of this to stop drag Mike or Mike and a Community Manager, to temper Mike's responses, and give us real information. Rules about the internet... do not give players information until you are ready for us to react to that information. If you want us to be mature and smart about our responses give us enough information to be mature and smart.

Using a search function I can easily find this post. And there are definitely more than two numbers that you are referring to. And this was Mike who has provided them. So basically now you are criticizing Mike for not providing the numbers, which he has already provided some time ago. So you are requesting real information now, which you have failed to find.

Stat dump for those that care :p Just remember my percentages before were rough estimates. You might find solace or despair below:

Base Shield Health 390 - 260

0 Pips to engines
Maximum Speed 160 - 140
Max Boosted Speed 280 - 220

Max Forward Acceleration 32 - 30
Max Retro Acceleration 19 - 18
Max Transverse Acceleration 19 - 16

MaxPitchRate 30 - 22
MaxRollRate 100 - 90

4 Pips to engines
Maximum Speed 250 - 200
Max Boosted Speed 330 - 280
Max Pitch Rate 38 - 27
 
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I want to be able to understand what -33% and -17% actually mean. I want Mike dragged back into this thread and make a really good post explaining what he means by in the hands of a good pilot it will still be good. I want values of base stats WITH UNITS OF MEASURE. I want to be able to form a cogent and thoughtful opinion of the changes. -33% and -17% tell me nothing because I do not know any of the current numbers on my ship. I do not care about BASE because I do know how modules effect BASE stats. I only know they make it better. If I can understand the delta between base and then change after upgrading to A6 is small no one can rage. But they are not telling us the DELTA we only have fear which leads to the dark side of nerd rage.
Okay, I'm afraid I can't tell you what units a ship's shield strength is measured in. I would strongly suspect it's 'damage units', whereby an attack that does X damage will reduce the current shield strength by X.

How shield generator modules affect base stats I can explain, to the best of my understanding based on another thread where Mike discussed this with us.

The important numbers are as follows:

* The Base Shield rating of the ship (shown on the shipyard screen)
* The Hull Mass of the ship (shown on the shipyard screen - note that this value is fixed for a given type of ship, and does not vary according to cargo or outfitting)
* The Min Mass of the Shield Generator module (determined by the Class of the shield generator, not currently shown in game, but listed by Mike in the other thread)
* The Optimal Mass of the Shield Generator module (determined by the Class of the shield generator, shown on the outfitting screen)
* The Max Mass of the Shield Generator module (determined by the Class of the shield generator, shown on the outfitting screen)
* The Max Modifier value of the Shield Generator module (determined by the Rating of the shield generator, not shown in game, but confirmed by Mike in the other thread)
* The Optimal Modifier value of the Shield Generator module (determined by the Rating of the shield generator, not shown in game, but confirmed by Mike in the other thread)
* The Min Modifier value of the Shield Generator module (determined by the Rating of the shield generator, not shown in game, but confirmed by Mike in the other thread)

For example, a Class 6 Shield Generator Module has the following mass values:

* Min Mass 270
* Optimal Mass 540
* Max Mass 1350

A 'C' Rating Shield Generator Module has the following modifier values:

* Max Modifier 1.5
* Optimal Modifier 1
* Min Modifier 0.5

So a 6C Shield Generator has those two sets of values, while a 6A has the same mass values but different modifiers (1.7/1.2/0.7)

The numbers are used like this:

* If the Hull Mass of the ship = the Optimal Mass of the Shield Generator, the ship's Shield rating will be the Base Shield rating x the Optimal Modifier
* If the Hull Mass of the ship <= the Min Mass of the Shield Generator, the ship's Shield rating will be the Base Shield rating x the Max Modifier
* If the Hull Mass of the ship = the Max Mass of the Shield Generator, the ship's Shield rating will be the Base Shield rating x the Min Modifier

If the Hull Mass of the ship is between the Min Mass and Optimal Mass of the Shield generator, the modifier is linearly interpolated between the Max Modifier and Optimal Modifier (so if the hull mass is halfway between the Min Mass and Optimal Mass, the modifier will be halfway between the Max and Optimal Modifier values).

If the Hull Mass of the ship is between the the Optimal Mass and Max Mass of the Shield generator, the modifier is linearly interpolated between the Optimal Modifier and Min Modifier (so if the Hull Mass is halfway between the Optimal Mass and Max Mass, the modifier will be halfway between the Optimal and Min Modifier values).

From the above and the numbers Mike gave in the other thread, you can see the results we worked out on the wiki page:

http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_Generator?file=ED_Shields.png

If you want to read through the relevant thread, it's this one:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102277


When it comes to the movement stat changes, I'm not sure there's much I can add to the post Mike made here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102717&page=5&p=1593196#post1593196

I am 99% certain that the units for speed are m/s, the units for linear acceleration are m/s/s, and units for roll and pitch are deg/s.

Hope that helps.

is the increase of shield class per module based on a fix value, or is it a %-value on top of the base?!
if last, that hte nerf is actually MORE than the number 33% suggests!
The shield modifiers are multipliers to the base value, so reducing the base by 33% and not changing anything else means that the shields will be 33% weaker with all shield generators.
 
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In order to participate in the discussions on level terms I have made a clear save 2 weeks ago and earned about 300M Cr in less than 1.5 weeks to be able to max out a Python. And I have no regrets in it being re-balanced. More ships are going to be added. And if you don't like the Python after the changes you can always sell it and buy another ship that would suit your purposes and gameplay better. There are always the options and ED is not limited by having a Python the way it looks right now.

How long till that ship nerfed or buff? This is my point... starting to make changes and telling players to adapt. If we feel we need to adapt too many times it is a waste of time to play and not fun. 38 days and we have a major change to only a few players are just now starting to adapt to? Why not tell the other players to adapt their tactics to this big bad mean ship.
 
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Using a search function I can easily find this post. And there are definitely more than two numbers that you are referring to. And this was Mike who has provided them. So basically now you are criticizing Mike for not providing the numbers, which he has already provided some time ago. So you are requesting real information now, which you have failed to find.

TY but digging through forums is not something I am going to waste my time on. He should have linked them in the first place or this should be on some FD sponsored WIKI. Mike openly said some of the community numbers were not accurate so I have lost all faith in community data. We need to know what is right and what is wrong. Theorycrafting fuels nerd rage and people against nerd rage because everyone has different data.

This is 3301, in-game, we should know all of the numbers associated. There is no magic, there is no sorcery, there is only science and raw data. Give me the numbers not pips on a bar.
 
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Ignoring the arrogance inherent in this statement, you might find this useful:

http://eft.recoil.org/posts

I am going to be arrogant because it is MY time and I value it quite highly. Digging through some forums in HOPES of finding information is a waste. Now if it was a sticky called NUMBERS we would like to show in-game but have not yet gotten around to yet is completely another thing.

Also you only partially quoted me. Quote the full post before you criticize as I do qualify my statement.
 
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Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
Ok, stop the arguing or the warnings will have to start.
 
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