Fix fine/bounty mechanics!

A few stray MC rounds won't trigger aggression from NPC's if they're not targeted.
So letting go of the trigger as your target is approaching a civilian will work fine, every time.

This sort of stuff happens all the time, the mechanics are working as intended, you just need to deal with it. Lol

The other week I was in a Res, and I fired off a volley of Packhounds at my target, a wanted NPC, who was firing on a clean Python, which was almost dead.
The pirate then fired off an ECM which sent my Packhounds off in random directions, one of them striking the Python.
I became wanted for Assault, and shortly after the Python exploded, so I then became wanted for murder. Lol

Did I rant? No. I got the hell out of Dodge and didn't come back for a while.
I could have suicided myself in a sidewinder, but I'm trying to not use that trick, seems as it will be fixed soon™.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

I seem to have something similar happen at least once a month. ;)

I used to fret about it, but now I'm like 'whatever' and I go play in someone else's sandbox for a week and then go pay it off. The occasional interdictions by NPC bounty hunters just adds a little change of pace to break things up a bit. I do wish they were worth more though...LOL.
 
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the stupid behaviour of flying a trade ship through a bunch of ships all shooting at each other... surely they would do their best to AVOID the fight and try go around not through it.
 
the stupid behaviour of flying a trade ship through a bunch of ships all shooting at each other... surely they would do their best to AVOID the fight and try go around not through it.

This is the same game where if an NPC Hauler sees you in your Beluga flying through the mail slot, it will double down and try to go through anyway. I think the AI is suicidal.
 
I seem to have something similar happen at least once a month. ;)

I used to fret about it, but now I'm like 'whatever' and I go play in someone else's sandbox for a week and then go pay it off. The occasional interdictions by NPC bounty hunters just adds a little change of pace to break things up a bit. I do wish they were worth more though...LOL.

The NPC bounty hunters are funny.
They attack you when you're not in the system you are wanted in, making themselves wanted for like 200cr. So you can legally kill them. Ironically.
Although the ammo usually costs 20x more than the bounty I can cash in.. :p

The only time an accidental murder bounty (not assault) is actually annoying is if you're at a bounty CG, which has no Haz RES. So you're forced to either leave, or use the suicide-winder trick.
All other times are just a mild inconvenience, or even just break the monotony of bounty farming, which is actually pretty dull. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 
I agree OP.

A few stray shots never hurt anyone. What counts is damage and intent... not a little bit of crossfire.

It would be great if FD addressed this ridiculousness and made it so there was a buffer zone before any bounty is registered.
 
I agree OP.

A few stray shots never hurt anyone. What counts is damage and intent... not a little bit of crossfire.

It would be great if FD addressed this ridiculousness and made it so there was a buffer zone before any bounty is registered.

There is.

You must do a specific amount of damage to shields for it to warrant a bounty. Small weapons are less likely to incur a bounty, and less shots / hits are more likely to go unpunished.

Any hull damage is an immediate bounty. Your reputation with the faction that the NPC belongs to might have a small effect too, in other words more leeway is given if you are allied.

The game cannot judge intent, only hits.
 
It's happened to me, & I either "Get the Hell out of Dodge" or-if I am not quick enough-I take my licks. I certainly don't post in the Frontier webpage saying "why is Elite: Dangerous so.....DANGEROUS".

The only thing I will say, in the OP's defense, is that we do need a more granular wanted system (Petty Criminal up to Galaxy's Most Wanted), & System Security should always prioritise their targets accordingly.

A granular Wanted System might also help prevent me for wasting MC ammo on some guy who turns out to be guilty of the interstellar version of Jay-walking ;).
 
Intent is a big thing. Things that should not count for the bounty/fine system:
  • ECM-ed missiles.
  • Turrets set to fire at will, and not targeted on the "wrong" target.
  • Accidental hits of any weapon locked on a valid enemy, that somehow strikes an invalid target (as long as it's hard to do it accidentally).
  • Mines?
  • Fighters controlled by players.
  • Fighters with NPC crew that wasn't trying to hit the wrong target (does this happen?)

Basically, anything that's not under direct player control and cannot be used to "accidentally on purpose" attack people (you know they'd do it..). I've hit the wrong people with lockon missiles in a few games now, I can never do it on purpose, so it's just kind of cool when it happens. Stuff under the control of the computer that's not trying to do the FF, and can't be easily fooled into it.

Maybe a "furball" multiplier? The more targets zooming around, it gives a hidden multiplier to how generous the NPCs are in assuming you didn't mean to hit them? With modifiers by player karma- someone who rarely kills "wrong" targets gets more leeway than someone with a suspiciously high amount of "friendly" damage?
 
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Be prepared for all the "get gud" arguments on why friendly fire is "always your fault" because "you aren't as gud as me" to begin in 5...4...3....

Friendly fire is always the player's fault. It's always my fault when I do it. Just the other night I was shooting a Viper Mk4 off the tail of a T-9, saw that he was going to fly across the back of the T-9, timed my shots to end just as he drifted across the back of him, mistimed it and clipped the T-9. 10 minute timeout, totally my fault - I should have stopped shooting earlier.

I guess that makes me what, not as gud as myself? Carry on absolving yourself of responsibility though. :)
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
All of you making suggestion about how to fix this are assuming the code FDev have written is complicated enough to be able to make multiple "if / then" calculations.

Far as I can tell the only ones they have set are : "Bounty - true / false" and "scanned - true / false" and both have to be "true" for you to not get the fine, everything else = fine (or death)

- bumped by a larger ship into a ANY other ship - wanted or not = fine or death
- pinging a few rounds - that are ALREADY TRAVELLING before that ship flies into the line of fire - off another clean NPC tha't clearly isnt using any combat awareness of any kind = fine or death (basically once you've fired there's fk all you can do about it - and there's only so much combat awareness anyone can have at any one time)

NPC's not involved with the combat that take absolutely ZERO avoiding action. " s'cuse me... ho hum, imma just slip between you guys..... HELP I'VE BEEN SHOT!! !!- POLICE!!! KIIIILL HIIIIM !!!!!!!!". PUULEASE.

The NPC's AI may be OK for combat in so far as shooting at stuff - but the rest of it is as intelligent as a rock.

As for NPC's flying in a blind spot underneath a large ship and directly into the path of belly mounted turrets - well - you deserve to get 'sploded.

I played a game recently called "Rebel Galaxy" and you can be a pirate if you want or just "something in between" and when I wanted (or needed by quests) to shoot a friendly, it took a concerted effort to get their attention - and I mean dropping their shield COMPLETELY before they got the idea that I was actually trying to kill them, they had to turn RED before my autoguns would even target them, let alone shoot.

Intelligent NPC combat awareness AI has been done plenty of times in space sim games - just not by FDev.

Instead of an instant fine a "three strikes" situation might be better - NOT THREE HITS - three separate occasions of being hit by freindly fire within a time limit with a counter. If it's deliberate you'll breach that in a heartbeat - if not, it'll be that buffer we need to give less experienced players (younger maybe) a chance to let go the trigger.

The game is rated TEEN - after all.

AI needs to be altered so that there is an invisible "no fly zone" around the large ships so that this cannot happen.

Friendly fire is always the player's fault. It's always my fault when I do it. Just the other night I was shooting a Viper Mk4 off the tail of a T-9, saw that he was going to fly across the back of the T-9, timed my shots to end just as he drifted across the back of him, mistimed it and clipped the T-9. 10 minute timeout, totally my fault - I should have stopped shooting earlier.

I guess that makes me what, not as gud as myself? Carry on absolving yourself of responsibility though. :)

REALLY?? *sigh*.... clearly your combat experience has been.... sedentary at best. If you've only get one target to watch and track - you're fine, try 10, or in some games I've played, 40.

This discussion is about the abilty to keep track of all combatantes both friendly and not, and the ability to time your shots according to all the varieties of combat manouvres being performed at any one time and being forced to take into account a "dumb as " AI with apparently zero self preservation or awareness, that it expects YOU to to make sure you don't fire at IT, rather than IT not place itself in YOUR firing line, which it continues to do.

It's like a motorcyclist smashing into your parked car then blaming YOU for parking there, and then doing his level best to kill you for it.
 
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REALLY?? *sigh*.... clearly your combat experience has been.... sedentary at best. If you've only get one target to watch and track - you're fine, try 10, or in some games I've played, 40.

This discussion is about the abilty to keep track of all combatantes both friendly and not, and the ability to time your shots according to all the varieties of combat manouvres being performed at any one time and being forced to take into account a "dumb as " AI with apparently zero self preservation or awareness, that it expects YOU to to make sure you don't fire at IT, rather than IT not place itself in YOUR firing line, which it continues to do.

It's like a motorcyclist smashing into your parked car then blaming YOU for parking there, and then doing his level best to kill you for it.

I totally agree.
 
So, I fly into a RES, shoot up a few targets, and a deadly Viper MkIV NPC I engaged suddenly decides to hug a T6 that was minding it's own business... too bad I had a heavy finger on my trigger and 2-3 stray shots from my MCs hit the clean trader... all of sudden, all the fed ships (all allied, not friendly, really allied to 100%) go red on me. had to jump out, need to wait 5 min to get un-wanted...

I normally don't rant about so futile things, but when NPCs start to bait you into shooting clean ships, the fun stops.

We need a fix for this kind of things. stray shots happen, even IRL combat. If you can avoid it, good, if it happens, your allies don't suddenly start opening fire on you for having hit a car that happend to roll thru the combat zone...

plz Fdev, start fleshing out the game mechanics a bit...

Wow this is still a thing? I remember complaining about this what seems like 4 years ago now. It's this reason that I haven't stepped foot in anything but HAZ-RES since they came out. Not because I'm hardcore, but because there's no police attack mobs if it happens. really though, even with all 8 hardpoints engineered to the max my strays never make an innocent think I'm attacking them. I guess it comes with time but I instinctively just 4-pip shields when NPC's do that. And they do it to asteroids more than other ships which is probably what it was trying to do. They peek around in their clippers and land rail-shots on imperial fighters because that's absolutely possible.

I'd try HAZ-RES or shoot who you want to fight then boost into the "sky" away from asteroids and other npc's. They will follow you... even if they're fighting 87 other npc's you can guarantee they'll turn towards you 95% of the time and follow. Good luck, because if this still happens then I sincerely doubt FD will ever, and I mean EVER fix it.
 
It doesn't need fixing - and it isn't that hard - and it isn't a thing. You don't need to keep track of 40 combatants. You just need to watch your close area and react quickly when the surprise happens. Sometimes we fail - so what? It is a chaotic situation and totally random as to what goes where - just as it is in a real combat area. If I fail I get annoyed at myself - not at the game. And I vow to do better - perhaps learn a lesson from it. And contrary to the people who would claim that I am saying I am gud-er than you - I am totally NOT saying that. I am saying it isn't that hard - you just have to try a bit harder, take responsibility and upskill a bit. Truly - it isn't hard. We are all playing the same game - it is what it is (to state the obvious).
 
I really hate this stupid game sometimes

Sometimes I get a bit of a lag spike and a scan takes longer than it should and I fire about .2 mila seconds before the scan finishes (police ships are already shooting it) I get a 365 credit fine (compared to the 90,000 odd credit fine on the target I am shooting) yet every police ship starts firing at me and ignores the 90k target, there goes an hour and a half of bounty hunting

What a waste of my life.

Dont even know why you get a bounty, I mean who cares if you have not scanned it, police are blowing the crap out of it, clearly its wanted
 
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I really hate this stupid game sometimes

Sometimes I get a bit of a lag spike and a scan takes longer than it should and I fire about .2 mila seconds before the scan finishes (police ships are already shooting it) I get a 365 credit fine (compared to the 90,000 odd credit fine on the target I am shooting) yet every police ship starts firing at me and ignores the 90k target, there goes an hour and a half of bounty hunting

What a waste of my life.

Dont even know why you get a bounty, I mean who cares if you have not scanned it, police are blowing the crap out of it, clearly its wanted

You are faced with the essence of PvE Bounty Hunting. Everything is done for us. Location, time, quantity, everything we need to pay the bills through fighting is layed out for us. The only thing asked of us, is to control our fire. There is nothing else we are responsible for. Take the time out, and the fine with a wink, and move on. It's the only thing we have to do.
 
a deadly Viper MkIV NPC I engaged suddenly decides to hug a T6 that was minding it's own business... too bad I had a heavy finger on my trigger and 2-3 stray shots from my MCs hit the clean trader...


Captain's Log.
31/07/3303/09:49 entry.

Flight went according to plan. Dropped into RES to meet the contractor and take over mined goods, exactly as planned. Noticed some battle in the background, but this was expected - contract noted that. Pirates try to hijack ore and various security, official and not so try to prevent. Since I'm clean and doing legal business I'm nothing to worry about. Mission: carry on as planned. As an extra precaution I shadow larger asteroids, my trusty T-6 needs some maintenance in a dry dock after this job. Scanning area for my contact. Suddenly all alarms go red. Hull breach, shields down. Loosing atmosphere, lost half of maneuvering thrusters and power plant is overheating. As I struggle to keep raging power under control and prevent it from turning my ship into small sun I catch some hothead bounty hunter passing me literally at hair thickness distance, blazing all his weapons without a pause. What a jerk! He could hear some heated words if I hadn't my comms fried. But I had more pressure matters at hand. Contract is dead, I'm in no condition to fulfill it at current state. Guess I have to limp to dry dock somehow. It'll be a long and bumpy ride as my hull integrity keeps things together on prayers and wishful thinking.

I bet I got a stray shot or two from one of those overengineered freaks. Luckily local security scared him off, chasing like a rabid dog he is. Hehe, carma's a when from a hunter you become a pray.

Ah, ... drive's again malfunctioning. This will be a long ride indeed...
 
You can do it too. I've baited enemy ships into firing on other ships to get them engaged to buy myself time for shields to come online or to reboot/repair in peace for a moment.

Nothing wrong with using another ship as cover - and it's just as fair for NPC's to do it as well.

I also like ramming ships into 'roids, or knocking them into 'roids with Force Shell cannons.

Always remember these Laws of War:


  • Friendly fire - isn't.
  • Recoilless rifles - aren't.
  • Suppressive fires - won't
  • Interchangeable parts - aren't.
 
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