Fix your bug-ridden game Frontier

Myrm

Myrm
But I would soon get fed up with the car coming back with something wrong with it, regardless of the fact that the so called “repairs” or “improvements” were free.
 

dreampage

dreampage
Ian Skippy said:
Except that isn't true; people complained about this way back before they had any released other major projects. Then as time goes on recent developments are used as 'cause' for what people dont like. "They are spread too thin across all these projects!" or "it is because of consoles!" or some other random idea. And you provide a perfect example of what the problem is: while you are complaining they should work more on fixing bugs, you immediately jump to also complain about how the development is new stuff is far too slow.

Also, your 'they shouldn't release faulty software' is rather naively binary. Software isn't either bugfree or faulty, every software has bugs and faults to some extent. The question is how you want to balance speed, innovation and quality. And in this genre people often expect way too much of the first two, and then get upset about the third. Let me assure you; if you had asked to devs over at Double Damage Games to release Rebel Galaxy with a 400b star system, with properly modeled rotations and orbits, in 3D and with a 6DOF flight model, with VR and full HOTAS support, multiplayer, the ability to land on planets and so forth: I can promise you that Rebel Galaxy would have vastly more bugs. I can also promise you that if you had asked them to do that, they wouldn't have called your expectations 'glacial'.

And around here we just take all of the above for granted, while getting upset about the 'glacial development' (really?) while also being upset about bugs. Now, you can call it 'understandable frustration'. Fine. But with such an attitude you'll always be upset, because what you want simply isn't going to happen in the real world. And no amount of 'but they have the duty to do that!' has any impact on this reality.
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You misunderstand. I don't complain about the speed of development, I claim it's glacial which it is. I was even hoping this would provide Frontier an opportunity to sort out the bugs and make smaller but higher quality updates. Yet here's the first one and it broke performance across the board, broke already working functions and introduced new bugs, too. A relatively small update. You're right that there is no perfect code (especially with today's complex games) and there has to be a balance. Elite doesn't have that balance. It has way too many problems and lack of polish for a game this mature and it starts over and over again when a new update hits and messes up a lot of things. And that's what I'm complaining about. And I understand others doing the same, although I don't support insulting behaviour towards any developer.
 

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
Dutchman141 said:
Rediculous reply.
Would you like your carsdealer to say that to you when your car keeps breaking down after just being fixed?
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They wouldn't because I'd have the humility to work with them to fix the issue. I mean, I probably don't know how to fix it. I'd like to share where that attitude comes from right quick.

I worked as an estimator in a body shop for four years (before that was insurance estimating). As being part of a dealership we had a very large service department as well. In my experience the vast majority of customers are idiots who don't understand the product they purchased. Here's a good example:

This was in Cleveland, Ohio. It's a place famous for bad roads and worse winters. We had a gentleman who drove a Chevrolet Corvette year round and every year with out fail would crack his quarter panel and need to get it replaced. Why did this happen? He had over sized tires on the vehicle and when he drove through a pot hole the tire would hit the quarter panel.

Every time he came in for this problem he'd complain about the poor design of the car. We'd point out his wheel choice which he would dismiss out of hand. Like I said: idiots who don't understand the product they bought.

When it comes to Elite, is is perfect? No! Of course not. I'd invite anyone here to try their own hand at it if they like.
 

D3rv1sh

D
EponymousCowherd said:
I also, conveniently missed out that they are fixed for free while outside of the warranty period.
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How does this relate to ED finance? The support is paid for. There is no warranty period. There is the lifetime of the game. For as long as Frontier is going to keep their servers going.
 

EponymousCowherd

EponymousCowherd
Phisto Sobanii said:
They wouldn't because I'd have the humility to work with them to fix the issue. I mean, I probably don't know how to fix it. I'd like to share where that attitude comes from right quick.

I worked as an estimator in a body shop for four years (before that was insurance estimating). As being part of a dealership we had a very large service department as well. In my experience the vast majority of customers are idiots who don't understand the product they purchased. Here's a good example:

This was in Cleveland, Ohio. It's a place famous for bad roads and worse winters. We had a gentleman who drove a Chevrolet Corvette year round and every year with out fail would crack his quarter panel and need to get it replaced. Why did this happen? He had over sized tires on the vehicle and when he drove through a pot hole the tire would hit the quarter panel.

Every time he came in for this problem he'd complain about the poor design of the car. We'd point out his wheel choice which he would dismiss out of hand. Like I said: idiots who don't understand the product they bought.

When it comes to Elite, is is perfect? No! Of course not. I'd invite anyone here to try their own hand at it if they like.
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For those in the UK, a quarter panel is a wing.
 

EponymousCowherd

EponymousCowherd
D3rv1sh said:
How does this relate to ED finance? The support is paid for. There is no warranty period. There is the lifetime of the game. How long Frontier is going to keep their servers going.
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Quite. How many other games that were released in 2015 are still in active development? Most AAA games just release a couple of DLCs and that's your lot. It's easy to have a relatively bug free game if that is your deployment model. It's the active development that creates bugs.

Most of us paid £40 (or less) for the base game and Horizons. For that we get online support, bug fixes, regular new features and some curated content. The only extra you have to pay are for cosmetic additions if you want them.

And you are quite correct. Software usually has no warranty at all. If you buy a pup you have absolutely no comeback and the developer is under absolutely no obligation to fix any bugs.

You are incorrect in saying that the support is paid for. You bought the game (strictly speaking you bought a licence to use it), the support given is up to the developer. Some are far worse then Frontier (looking at EA, here).
 

D3rv1sh

D
EponymousCowherd said:
Quite. How many other games that were released in 2015 are still in active development? Most AAA games just release a couple of DLCs and that's your lot. It's easy to have a relatively bug free game if that is your deployment model. It's the active development that creates bugs.

Most of us paid £40 (or less) for the base game and Horizons. For that we get online support, bug fixes, regular new features and some curated content. The only extra you have to pay are for cosmetic additions if you want them.

And you are quite correct. Software usually has no warranty at all. If you buy a pup you have absolutely no comeback and the developer is under absolutely no obligation to fix any bugs.

You are incorrect in saying that the support is paid for. You bought the game (strictly speaking you bought a licence to use it), the support given is up to the developer. Some are far worse then Frontier (looking at EA, here).
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Agree with everything but the paid for part. From a business standpoint the game has to be profitable in order to keep it in active development. Seeing how the game isn't in maintenance mode yet, they can afford to actively develop content and provide support for the game. Like I said it's obviously not a charity organisation. It's true that you only have to pay the license in order to play the game.

However if no further ongoing financial support through micro transactions were to happen for example, then the active development would surely be affected. It's still financially supported by the community who's playing the game. Does this money come falling down the sky for them according to you? Seeing how you insist it's free support and content?
 

EponymousCowherd

EponymousCowherd
D3rv1sh said:
Agree with everything but the paid for part. From a business standpoint the game has to be profitable in order to keep it in active development. Seeing how the game isn't in maintenance mode yet, they can afford to actively develop content and provide support for the game. Like I said it's obviously not a charity organisation. It's true that you only have to pay the license in order to play the game.

However if no further ongoing financial support through micro transactions were to happen for example, then the active development would surely be affected. It's still financially supported by the community who's playing the game. Does this money come falling down the sky for them according to you? Seeing how you insist it's free support and content?
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You don't pay for support you pay for the game and cosmetic add-ons. There is no support contract.

What are these "micro-transactions" you keep mentioning? As far as I am aware the only additional payments you can make towards the game are the cosmetic add-ons, and these are not, by definition, "micro-transactions"
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
EponymousCowherd said:
I also, conveniently missed out that they are fixed broken for free while outside of the warranty period.
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I corrected your post. The game I originally bought was "fixed" already (except for a minor vsync bug). The updates make it worse, not better. If I bought a car and the dealer came to my house after the fact and used a hammer to beat in a new radio into the dash, breaking the dashboard in the process, well then we'd have an analogy worthy of what Frontier does to this game.
 
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