Fleet Carrier Hydrogen Bomb

graflex22

graflex22
Jmanis said:
Truth be told, this is (at least for me) still one of the major issues with trade and the BGS[1]. The amount of profit the commander makes should be irrelevant to the effect of the transaction for the faction; they still regardless of if the commander makes or loses, say 2000cr on the item, the station still buys it for, say, 10,000cr.

At the very least, selling to High/Medium/Low demand should respectively increase the influence/economy, while selling to no demand (i.e it's not actually an import item) or beyond demand (i.e it's an import item, but you have more items than there is demand) should hurt influence/economy. Coincidentally, this would've also helped correct the lack of negative states prior-to Drought/Infrasturcure/Terror/Blight states being added, and also corrects for massive saturation (e.g in the case of LTDs), and promotes diversity of goods (for low pop systems).

So then regardless of the washed price of a good, if it's selling to a demand line, it'll still make a positive effect.

[1] such is the case for bounties/CZs as well; the effect should not be contingent on you handing the bonds or bounties in, rather, it should be an effect of the kill.
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this makes a lot more sense to me than the current system. a profit or loss to the seller should not affect the buyer or the faction's influence.
 

Quantis Trap

Quantis Trap
I think there might be a relatively simple way for Frontier to to fix this (without causing bigger problems) if they can somehow make it so commodities are not tagged, as far as the BGS is concerned, with the sell value from the FC and somehow tagged with a more reasonable value which will be used by the BGS.

If it's not fixed, the only way I can see that PMFs can compete against this is to be perpetually doing the opposite of this exploit. That is a lot of grind!
 
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Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
CMDR QUANTIS TRAP said:
I think there might be a relatively simple way for Frontier to to fix this (without causing bigger problems) if they can somehow make it so commodities are not tagged, as far as the BGS is concerned, with the sell value from the FC and somehow tagged with a more reasonable value which will be used by the BGS.

If it's not fixed, the only way I can see that PMFs can compete against this is to be perpetually doing the opposite of this exploit. That is a lot of grind!
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It can be tricky to set a reasonable static value, though, for the goods which have wide price ranges on both buy and sell.

Polymers for example can be sold between 200 and 8000 credits, with a purchase price anywhere from 50 to 2600 credits. "Galactic Average" price is 308, and they're a high-stock good. Pretty much whatever they set the virtual carrier price to they can be used to make negative BGS trades ... worse, the laundering may mean that those trades are actually profitable in cash terms.



What they may have to do is make the BGS effect of trade be solely based on tonnage of demanded goods and the players' personal profitability is irrelevant. Carriers could still be used to pile on the tons a little more efficiently, but the diminishing returns curve can already handle that.
 

Ryan Murdoc

Ryan Murdoc
We soon will know if this still works in live or not. And if so it is pretty darn obvious since people will be on the lookout for any FC popping in their places. The moment its discovered and who owns it combined with a % loss = Declaration of War.

Fun times ahead.
 

Fozz40

Fozz40
Ryan Murdoc said:
We soon will know if this still works in live or not. And if so it is pretty darn obvious since people will be on the lookout for any FC popping in their places. The moment its discovered and who owns it combined with a % loss = Declaration of War.

Fun times ahead.
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Well the BGS seems to be messed up atm.
 

Dommarraa

Dommarraa
And people wonder why others dont report things
Fleet Carrier Exploit - Hydrogen Bomb
STATUS EXPIRED
This issue expired due to it not being confirmed in the allocated time frame. It may be that this issue has already been reported by other players, or has been fixed during a recent update. If your issue is heavily impacting you being able to access your account/the game, please raise a ticket with our Customer Support Team who will be able to assist with troubleshooting and work with you to resolve your issue and get you back into the game
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Dommarraa

Dommarraa
Dommarraa said:
Currently testing against my own faction.
30 warheads of 220t with a yield of 250,000cr. Let's see what that does against the might of Dav and his 'trend'
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There was an 8% (70% to 62%) drop in a 24 Traffic 18M Pop system, which is pretty decent. However, all the gain went to 1 Faction, so testing totally inconclusive in the face of Davs Trend
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Dommarraa said:
There was an 8% (70% to 62%) drop in a 24 Traffic 18M Pop system, which is pretty decent. However, all the gain went to 1 Faction, so testing totally inconclusive in the face of Davs Trend
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Just curious, what's this "Dav's Trend"?

The fact it went to one faction suggests there was work done for that faction, or that others were otherwise unchangeable, but with the way the BGS is, who knows I guess?
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
Jane Turner
I still read that as the normalisation process won't swamp out gains (or losses) as much - though still the reason for the mayhem.
 

CMDR Tony

C
Dommarraa said:
Just a little technique using Fleet Carrier Markets to effect a station owners influence. Valid Strategy or Awful Exploit, only FD can say, but I would want a shower afterwards.
We are only in Beta, but I cant see any of the mechanics changing in a way to prevent this, any changes are likely to make it easier.

Method
  1. Jump your FC to the same body as a station
  2. Using a suitable trading vessel with minimum protection (NPC dont have time to Interdict), travel to the station
  3. Purchase a full hold of Hydrogen Fuel
  4. Return to FC
  5. Set a FC Buy Order for the cargo at any price
  6. Sell the cargo to the FC
  7. Set a FC Sell Order for the cargo at 1000%
  8. Buy the Cargo
  9. Return to the Station - Only going to be 10-20ls away, so takes virtually time
  10. Sell the Cargo making more than 700Cr/t loss
  11. Repeat 2-10 for 1 hour
  12. Set FC to Jump out to another target
  13. Repeat 2-10 for another 50 mins
  14. Dock with FC, FC Leaves System
  15. Wait for Tick
  16. See Station Owners Influence TANKED
  17. Wait for Station Owner to Raise Bug Report, as their Inf has tanked with ZERO Ships on the Traffic Report, and no way to detect these actions or even your presence unless they happened to spot your FC during its 2 hour stay.
Alternatives
  1. Using more than 1 commodity is more effective. 4 is about optimal, as long as there is 700cr/t loss. A Python using 4x40t is very nearly as effective as a Cutter/T9.
  2. Preload your Hydrogen and other commodities to avoid the FC Trade Order micromanagement, but that requires preparation.
  3. Use the reverse situation to BOOST Inf by using the stations own High Supply Items, use the FC to lower the price to give a 700Cr/t profit
Comments
  1. Yes, its just an extension of normal trading at a loss, but is MUCH quicker to just travel 20ls than jumping in and out system.
  2. Is it grind ? Yes, but when has that ever stopped anyone
  3. If 700cr/t loss is too much, you cant afford a Carrier in the first place (most of the loss becomes profit for the FC Account)
  4. Not appearing on Traffic is an added bonus
  5. Using the Stations own Commodities is just rubbing their noses in it
  6. Not sure what Eco effect this would have. Maybe Bust ?
Raised a bug report : https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/14482
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I approve of this. If people are going to undermine other people's PMFs from Solo and avoid a fight, then this is just.
 

teje3

T
Mikalai said:
The owner of a fleet carrier cannot buy and sell goods on his fleet carrier. He can only move goods from or to the ship. Is not it?
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No. You can sell and buy in your own carrier. No problem.

I was trying yesterday this technique and it was very slow to put the buy and sell order in the carrier. At the end, it was slower than going to other station.
 

Postal

Postal
teje3 said:
No. You can sell and buy in your own carrier. No problem.

I was trying yesterday this technique and it was very slow to put the buy and sell order in the carrier. At the end, it was slower than going to other station.
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I think it depends on what the markets look like around you. Where I am working I can hardly find a station that sells 2 commodities at a loss of more than 1000 cr pt. Where with this you can take any commodity and sell it at a loss.
I just did 8 cutter loads at 4x180 selling at a loss at a station. Ill update when the tick comes round to let you know what happened.
 
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