ANNOUNCEMENT Fleet Carriers - Content Reveal Announcement

[Mengy]

I think really FCs have been a real albatross for FD. They've taken many, many iterations to get to us, and are one of two light patches in a giant lull in updates. Its pure bad luck for them and triggers people when something which is intended for loaded players appears now in the void. But they could not be swapped for something else more universal as that would be more delay.

Well, true, but this is only true due to the way FDev designed the fleet carrier feature.

They could have easily made carriers more useable by:

1. Offering a few sizes of carriers with varying prices, upkeep costs, and capabilities.
2. Including player controlled mission boards on the carriers.
3. Including UC as an option for the carriers.
4. Implementing player to player material trading on carriers.

It was a design choice by FDev to make them as exclusive as they did. They certainly didn't need to.

 

[Fake Newts]

I think really FCs have been a real albatross for FD. They've taken many, many iterations to get to us, and are one of two light patches in a giant lull in updates. Its pure bad luck for them and triggers people when something which is intended for loaded players appears now in the void. But they could not be swapped for something else more universal as that would be more delay.

In sentiment this is probably somewhat true. Would Fdev have drawn flak for them whatever they did? Maybe. You're one of the few people who've actually been defending carriers in a constructive way as opposed to ironically complaining about people complaining... so respect for that posting. However, the reality is Fdev could solve a lot of the storm fairly simply, by removing/reducing costs and maybe shortening jump times. It's not as if this would dramatically affect the 'delicately balanced' gameworld, if we're being honest.

Anecdotal evidence is not much cop, but most veterans I know had low, low expectations and were just hoping they'd be a neater means of transporting a 'fleet' of ships around. Fleet carriers, right? As pitched their benefits simply don't seem to outweigh the costs in this basic regard (setting aside commodity storage niche pursuits for a moment): Of course 20mil upkeep is technically achieveable for any player who has played for more than a handful of hours, but when transfers cost less and are faster why should people bother over using normal stations? They didn't have to be game-changing, they just had to be not actively a burden. There was nothing stopping them avoiding the bulk of the controversy by making them do literally what they say on the tin with minimal fuss. If you aren't adding something amazing and fresh, fair enough. At least make it so your players can do what they already do in more satisfying or streamlined ways.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Well, true, but this is only true due to the way FDev designed the fleet carrier feature.

They could have easily made carriers more useable by:

1. Offering a few sizes of carriers with varying prices, upkeep costs, and capabilities.
2. Including player controlled mission boards on the carriers.
3. Including UC as an option for the carriers.
4. Implementing player to player material trading on carriers.

It was a design choice by FDev to make them as exclusive as they did. They certainly didn't need to.

Its wholly dependent though on how difficult all that is with the underlying engine though.

1 would be achievable and I hope they do it.
2 would be too much I imagine for the small team they have on this.
3 I expect they will add this.
4 like 2 I imagine this is too complicated or goes against how they see FCs fitting into the game. Incidentally I'd love the idea and suggested as much via FC synth abilities.

It was a design choice by FDev to make them as exclusive as they did. They certainly didn't need to.

They said they were for loaded commanders, so they are not out of scope here, and really they are squadron carriers at heart with the possibility of single players managing them (but with difficulty). They are open for everyone if you can afford it.

 

[SergMx]

...
The rainforest would not burn. No player is going to directly affect you as much as those with FDLs and plasma accelerators (if you've chosen to be in Open in certain places), and everyone can access these relatively easily already.

1. You know the price for FC is equal to the price for 25000 Imperial Cutter.
2. You know that there is no progressive making of money in the game. Yes you start playing with almost 0 and buying one ship after another you gradually rise higher. But after buying the Imperial Cutter, there is no increase in profits. You will be monotonous something to do until you reach the amount of 25000 Imperial Cutters.
Not 1000 and not 5000 to 25000 !
3. You wrote yourself that even a lot of cheap FDL can destroy the Imperial Cutter.

 

[Rubbernuke]

In sentiment this is probably somewhat true. Would Fdev have drawn flak for them whatever they did? Maybe. You're one of the few people who've actually been defending carriers in a constructive way as opposed to ironically complaining about people complaining... so respect for that posting. However, the reality is Fdev could solve a lot of the storm fairly simply, by removing/reducing costs and maybe shortening jump times. It's not as if this would dramatically affect the 'delicately balanced' gameworld, if we're being honest.

Anecdotal evidence is not much cop, but most veterans I know had low, low expectations and were just hoping they'd be a neater means of transporting a 'fleet' of ships around. Fleet carriers, right? As pitched their benefits simply don't seem to outweigh the costs in this basic regard (setting aside commodity storage niche pursuits for a moment): Of course 20mil upkeep is technically achieveable for any player who has played for more than a handful of hours, but when transfers cost less and are faster why should people bother over using normal stations? They didn't have to be game-changing, they just had to be not actively a burden. There was nothing stopping them avoiding the bulk of the controversy by making them do literally what they say on the tin with minimal fuss. If you aren't adding something amazing and fresh, fair enough. At least make it so your players can do what they already do in more satisfying or streamlined ways.

I suppose I'm framing FCs by my time at PP and from following them in the background. In PP a lot of the time is dealing with logistics problems and working as a team- if you approach FCs in the same manner they don't appear as overwhelming as they do to single player (which is possible but time consuming- smaller FCs could change that). I also have (probably an edge case) style of BGS play that FCs suit very well (i.e. nasty negative inf dealing).

I have nothing against shortening the times for FCs or adding UC, but at the same time I want them to be apart from regular ships. I fully expect FD will up the jump distances for example, not drastically but enough to make more of the H3, whatever it costs and how its sold / collected. In the end they are flying menus but at the same time they are not an Anaconda+ and IMO should not be seen as such. To me they are giant oil rigs we tow about and park while we do stuff, and part of the game should be accepting they are different and learning how to adapt.

My expectations were low- an invincible flying keychain was my pitch but FD delivered some interesting things, despite them being not what some wanted. It will be interesting to see what FD change with them to be honest. Upping jump distances 500Ly > 1000Ly would not drastically alter bubble FC use for example, or reducing the spooling time (to stop kidnapping it would have to be a minimum of 10 minutes). But since they are invincible they need some sort of downside, otherwise they just linger.

 

[Ebel]

1. You know the price for FC is equal to the price for 25000 Imperial Cutter.
2. You know that there is no progressive making of money in the game. Yes you start playing with almost 0 and buying one ship after another you gradually rise higher. But after buying the Imperial Cutter, there is no increase in profits. You will be monotonous something to do until you reach the amount of 25000 Imperial Cutters.
Not 1000 and not 5000 to 25000 !
3. You wrote yourself that even a lot of cheap FDL can destroy the Imperial Cutter.

Uhh, 25,000 let's see...that uhh 5.2 Trillion. FC cost about as much as 5 well outfitted cutters. Just setting the record straight there.

 

[SergMx]

Uhh, 25,000 let's see...that uhh 5.2 Trillion. FC cost about as much as 5 well outfitted cutters. Just setting the record straight there.

You can buy a Cutter for 200,000 and already use it, for example, to carry goods. And your comparison is not correct, because everyone knows the penalty for resistors and no one uses jet armor on the Cutters.

 

[Ebel]

You can buy a Cutter for 200,000 and already use it, for example, to carry goods. And your comparison is not correct, because everyone knows the penalty for resistors and no one uses jet armor on the Cutters.

no, you can't. they are 208,000,000 that's 2.08 x 10⁸. You are off by a large factor.

 

[Ebel]

it is common knowledge that a fully outfitted battle cutter is north of 1 billion.

 

[Ebel]

You can buy a Cutter for 200,000 and already use it, for example, to carry goods. And your comparison is not correct, because everyone knows the penalty for resistors and no one uses jet armor on the Cutters.

Okay, you win. I just don't get the joke.

 

[SergMx]

it is common knowledge that a fully outfitted battle cutter is north of 1 billion.

I repeat, because you can buy a boat for 200,000 and then use it to gradually increase its power !
Adding something you see and feel progress and not just stupidly and monotonously copy credits.

 

[Ebel]

I repeat, because you can buy a boat for 200,000 and then use it to gradually increase its power !
Adding something you see and feel progress and not just stupidly and monotonously copy credits.

Let me write it out for you; you have written a price of two hundred thousand credits. The real price of a cutter is just over two hundred million credits. or even closer; two hundred and eight million. That is the base price. You can get a discount of say 10% or a bit more but you will never buy one for 200,000.

No wait! I did hear that Hutton had them for that price. You have to show up in your anaconda though to prove you are worthy.

 

[Pestifer]

I repeat, because you can buy a boat for 200,000 and then use it to gradually increase its power !
Adding something you see and feel progress and not just stupidly and monotonously copy credits.

Please tell me that you are not an USA Mathematician, though that will explain the first epidemiology reports by the Feds.
You should play more and spend less time in the forums, I am sure you will get the credits if you want. Normal people can make 1 billion in around 6 hours of game play.

 

[Fake Newts]

1. You know the price for FC is equal to the price for 25000 Imperial Cutter.
2. You know that there is no progressive making of money in the game. Yes you start playing with almost 0 and buying one ship after another you gradually rise higher. But after buying the Imperial Cutter, there is no increase in profits. You will be monotonous something to do until you reach the amount of 25000 Imperial Cutters.
Not 1000 and not 5000 to 25000 !
3. You wrote yourself that even a lot of cheap FDL can destroy the Imperial Cutter.

You seem to have missed the point I was making. That or you're not conveying the point you're making clearly.

 

[Ebel]

You seem to have missed the point I was making. That or you're not conveying the point you're making clearly.

But I want to know what Jet Armor^TM is and why no one uses it.

 

[Hellrider]

1. You know the price for FC is equal to the price for 25000 Imperial Cutter.
2. You know that there is no progressive making of money in the game. Yes you start playing with almost 0 and buying one ship after another you gradually rise higher. But after buying the Imperial Cutter, there is no increase in profits. You will be monotonous something to do until you reach the amount of 25000 Imperial Cutters.
Not 1000 and not 5000 to 25000 !
3. You wrote yourself that even a lot of cheap FDL can destroy the Imperial Cutter.

So don't grind 25000 cutters and just enjoy game?

 

[Zieman]

1. You know the price for FC is equal to the price for 25000 Imperial Cutter.

Lolwut?

Your math is off by a factor of 1000.
Cutter base price is a whiff under 209 million Cr, FC base price is 5000 million Cr.
That makes one FC cost as much as 24 Cutters.

 

[brap_man]

1. You know the price for FC is equal to the price for 25000 Imperial Cutter.
2. You know that there is no progressive making of money in the game. Yes you start playing with almost 0 and buying one ship after another you gradually rise higher. But after buying the Imperial Cutter, there is no increase in profits. You will be monotonous something to do until you reach the amount of 25000 Imperial Cutters.
Not 1000 and not 5000 to 25000 !
3. You wrote yourself that even a lot of cheap FDL can destroy the Imperial Cutter.

Errm 5,000,000,000 for a Fleet Carrier.. and one of my Cutters is worth 1,200,000,000... so no, 4x price of a Cutter, not 25000x LOL

 

[sgto_york]

The problem was never the price nor the maintenance ... the problem is the damn 2 hours to jump and the amount of fuel spent ... FD save the game ... 5000ly at least autonomy, 10 seconds to jump and zero cooldown

 

[A D]

Two threads - Duplicate of my post in the other content reveal thread:

"There is a mixture of views in this thread - after 47 pages mostly negative. What is fairly clear though is that there are a lot of questions and even the positive comments seem to have a rider of some sort to explain a bad mechanic. E.g. FC's are too big to fly so its ok that you can't fly them, the maintenance cost is ok because you can get credits easily in the game by doing x or y, you can use an FC in exploration but that is like taking your house with you so naturally slow.

In short, no-one is saying "wow", "this is fantastic" or "FD you have outdone yourself". Instead the comments very muted or salty which accords with my impression of the FC mechanics so far. If were to summarise my impression it is that FD has adapted the existing capital ship mechanic/content (which is a nice in game prop but otherwise pretty useless) and bolted on a whole lot of existing starport services which are meant to introduce a player economy but probably won't work (because you can get the same thing anywhere). Disappointing really and not something that strikes me as 2 years of hard focused work to come up with a game changer.

The feedback from the beta will be telling."