ANNOUNCEMENT Fleet Carriers - Content Reveal Recap

[Apocalysse]

No it does not. People knew real well it was going to be tough (not impossible) for single commanders to keep a carrier going. Well, surprise, we now know it is and we have the tears. People need to adjust expectations or learn to read.

In origin the FC was un idea like Squadron Fleet Carrier, after they presented it black on white paper with PERSONAL FLEET CARRIER.
So indeed are Personal, but also you cannot operate them alone, so in the end is a Personal because you owe it, but supported by a group of player like a Squadron ... o W8 don't ring something ?

Well surprise ! People are most angry because is Personal only in the cost, it add unnecessary grinding, crazy jump time that don't consider jump range and basic module like "Refuel, Repair, Rearm" that cannot be repaid with players alone. Refuel alone cost 50M (and so the others), putting 2K gain on every refuel, you need 25'000 refuel to repay the module, and the week fee of 2,5M you need 1200 refuel weekly. The other module are not any better, these Skyrocket number are possible only in station where people need something like Deciat / Shinrarta / Robigo / ecc

You are very right, people need to adjust their expectation ... in the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Apocalysse]

Right now, I'm not going to purchase a FC. It's a waste of money. And I'm literally the kind of hardcore player with extra money that this update is aimed towards. I hope they make some adjustments to its current implementation.

I'll buy only because i have support from my squadron and for squadron are a bit usefull, otherwise i'll don't buy, it's unnecessary.
Yes i need a lot of module storage taken from powerplay, but i have buyed a lot of ships for this purpose (i have called them storage of module, them i move around Shinrarta)
Yes it will be fine have a personal base, but all my ships are already in strategic places, so i don't need to transport on a FC and 500LY time are so long that i prefer using ship transfer between stations (less time, less cost)
So What is the purpose to buy it for an advanced player ? IMHO there is none.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

what risk? thatgoids cant attack carriers
we have been told that they are indestructible

I mean theoretically, it is understandable why you wouldn't want to send something into uncharted territories. I wasn't going to start pulling on the thread about how they're implemented.

 

[Pengman19]

I'll buy only because i have support from my squadron and for squadron are a bit usefull, otherwise i'll don't buy, it's unnecessary.
Yes i need a lot of module storage taken from powerplay, but i have buyed a lot of ships for this purpose (i have called them storage of module, them i move around Shinrarta)
Yes it will be fine have a personal base, but all my ships are already in strategic places, so i don't need to transport on a FC and 500LY time are so long that i prefer using ship transfer between stations (less time, less cost)
So What is the purpose to buy it for an advanced player ? IMHO there is none.

Exactly. And the adjustment recommendations I've mentioned in several recent posts would immediately help. Some of which they could do with little dev investment. Some are more wishes or long term adjustments.

FCs really should have had something to offer that CMDRs could not get anywhere else. Special FC engineers that could push engineered grade 5 modules a little bit further would be huge. Especially if it was something FC owners needed to work towards unlocking, and if they could only choose one to offer. People would seek out these fleet carriers and would pay a pretty penny. In addition to this, being able to sell custom ships would have been nice (especially with special livery tools that would allow FC owners to create custom brands).

From a FC owner standpoint, it should be a shared squadron asset where you could collectively work towards unlocking various packages for purchase, such as defense packages, custom shipyard packages, livery packages, utility packages, special engineer packages, marketing packages, exploration packages, etc. All with tiered levels. And all of this requiring choices and sacrifices, etc., meaning, you cannot unlock and install everything. You have limited loadout options. But in general you're able to outfit it with a multitude of different packages. Depends on what you're trying to do right? The main thing is you can CUSTOMIZE what you want to do. You feel invested in the FC. You WANT to get on and play the game.

Sigh...

 

[Kyo_Arashikage]

So personally, after reading a good chunk of this forum (and the entire Steam forum related to this exact topic,) all I can say really is that we all should just...wait. Voice our opinion, and see how it goes. I do like the visual appeal of them. I understand how they can be quite useful, circumstancially. I can get how the fleet carriers are meant to be a bit of a late or end-game goal for players, hence the massive price tag, but the main concept around their handling, upkeep, and features looks like it may need to be reworked. Another note is that one doesn't really NEED a fleet carrier, they can spend their credits on something else.

Hopefully, I and other people who enjoy this game will see the features of the fleet carriers reworked to a point where it is friendly to all professions, and also friendly to single and multiplayer. Maybe making it more useful to players in general. I know that people will want to buy and sell for better deals at stations, most likely not at an FC that will be in a system one moment, then gone the next.

However, I might be displaying sheer naivety by wishing for that sort of thing. Sure, a good chunk of the players funded the game through Kickstarter, and sure, we play the game, but this game is still FD's game, even with it being on the back burner right now in the face of more important and potentially popular games.

Anyways, I'll probably devote my next billion credits to kitting out my Imperial Cutter, next time I hop onto the game. I miss the lovely polish. o7 Commanders, and good flying out there. I'mma hit the sack.

 

[markyp4334]

I VOLUNTEER carrier to the free spot in the Empyrean Straits am on PS4 and in the fatherhood squadron

 

[Fibblesnork]

This is a copy/paste from a Reddit thread but since the livestream, I have been debating the usefulness of FCs and I’m undecided on just how game changing they will be. For the most part I explore, it’s the thing I enjoy the most. I’m double Elite (just missing the combat so far) and would consider getting triple Elite an achievement. I don’t really care much for trading, got my Elite tank off of missions and rep grinding. I find mining to be lucrative but dull and not very engaging though I admit to only doing laser mining so far. I have a dozen or so ships in my fleet so to speak and I’m currently away over the other side of the galaxy.

Right, so what will I get out of FCs? And this is key because I’ll likely have the resources to buy and maintain one. Some Commanders have complained about the weekly upkeep but if you’ve made enough credits to afford one, keeping it up shouldn’t be a financial issue at all and I think this is where FDev’s in game financial thinking is.

Ok so what am I going to do with a fleet carrier if I get one? Well I could load up my fleet which correct me if I am wrong here, can be way larger than the 16 landing pads on the carrier which does raise an interesting point. The only reason for having that number of pads is a) cosmetic and b) limits concurrent visitors but is there ever going to be an instance in regular gameplay where you’ll have 16 players docked? And how does that work if some are solo and some are open?

Anyway, I digress. So I fill my carrier up with 24,000 tonnes of Tritium and my fleet and head off into the black. We are all assuming that you get 1ly jump range per ton of fuel but that wasn’t explicitly stated. It was stated that if you are careful you can get two 500ly jumps out of a tank so I believe that it’s one for one. I’m not going to get into the time it takes to jump and travel but that gives 24,000ly of range. Going any further needs some Tritium mining. If I want to get out to Colonia which incidentally I wouldn’t because there are stations already there but if I did, I’ll be needing to mine a further 24,000 tonnes of Tritium to get back or go further and how long is that going to take!? And how mind numbing is that going to be!? I get that you can buy it at stations but if you are nowhere near a station then what? Plus, as stupid and unprepared as this would be then I guess you are stuck if you don't bring a mining equipped ship with you.

Ok so if I do head out the other way, say about 2 o’clock on the galaxy map, park up and operate as a refuel, restock and repair depot (welcome to all weary travelers) then what am I going to do with the fleet I brought with me? There’s no passenger missions to pick up, there’s no trading to do, there’s no combat to do and no Thargoids to fight. All I can really do is more exploring which is fine but I don’t need a fleet carrier to do that.

Ultimately, I can see the reasoning behind them. I can see the usefulness of a massive credit dump to own one but even if they add in Universal Cartographics hand in to the carrier, I’m still struggling with seeing why any explorer would want one, beyond e-peening of course. Now I will say they look great and they’ll be prestige in ownership no doubt but I’m not really convinced of their value of use. Now granted, I’ve only covered me and “my needs” (how selfish) but the more I consider, the vaguer it all gets and yes, we'll all have a better idea tomorrow maybe..

Just on that, anyone know if any YouTubers going to be beta streaming tomorrow? Yamiks, Exigeous, Obsidian etc

 

[Rubbernuke]

I mean theoretically, it is understandable why you wouldn't want to send something into uncharted territories. I wasn't going to start pulling on the thread about how they're implemented.

No, they are. Unhackable, have turrets and own security (depending on your standing) and no hull points. The only threat in theory would be people in the vicinity in Open. It was explicitly mentioned Thargoids don't care about them (unless led somehow), or decomissioning from upkeep.

 

[Oldviboy]

The only thing I do not agree is with the travel time and cooling, 2 hours to jump 500ly is excessive and ridiculous, we should be able to travel faster with the FC.

I think the time to raise the money to feed it or mine for the tritlium is more than enough.


I ask the beta testers not to extend the playing time any more please, it starts to be a prank.

 

[Nadreck]

The Carrier's cargo capacity is 25,000t minus whatever you've sacrificed to add modules. And at this point it does seem likely that you'd have to add a shipyard (a very bulky module) to gain access to the ship-tranfer function and actually park more than one of your ships on the Carrier. In the presentation, the Ship Transfer tab was visible in its usual place on the Shipyard screen.

I have no intention of mining to fuel this thing either. Whatever the fuel capacity ends up as when I've added the modules I want, that will be my range limit (half that if there's nowhere to refuel).

I'm hoping that it can be ordered to keep jumping on a plotted route until the destination is reeached or the fuel runs out. If FDev don't provide this facility, it might be possible to use a macro program to automate the sequence of keystrokes and mouse movements to transfer fuel from the hold, and scroll down and copy-and-paste from a spreadsheet of system names to automate the jumps (looping with a 2-hour wait). A clunky solution that I hope will not be needed.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The Carrier's cargo capacity is 25,000t minus whatever you've sacrificed to add modules. And at this point it does seem likely that you'd have to add a shipyard (a very bulky module) to gain access to the ship-tranfer function and actually park more than one of your ships on the Carrier. In the presentation, the Ship Transfer tab was visible in its usual place on the Shipyard screen.

I have no intention of mining to fuel this thing either. Whatever the fuel capacity ends up as when I've added the modules I want, that will be my range limit (half that if there's nowhere to refuel).

I'm hoping that it can be ordered to keep jumping on a plotted route until the destination is reeached or the fuel runs out. If FDev don't provide this facility, it might be possible to use a macro program to automate the sequence of keystrokes and mouse movements to transfer fuel from the hold, and scroll down and copy-and-paste from a spreadsheet of system names to automate the jumps (looping with a 2-hour wait). A clunky solution that I hope will not be needed.

The stream had all services enabled, and they all took up 5.5 K space- I can't tell how that 5.5K is split, but its probably 800 / 1000.

 

[VoluptaBox]

I’m still struggling with seeing why any explorer would want one, beyond e-peening of course

Maybe they will allow us to reach previously unexplored systems? The current theoretical max jump range is 320ish or so, with a Neutron star? Realistically you also need to get back so you're stuck with 240ish. A carrier offers more than double that..

 

[Kaltern]

I have read a good number of these posts. I read the FAQ. I read the official description. I watched the reveal.

And I have one burning question that I can't seem to find a good answer to:

Who are these carriers actually aimed at?

Explorers? No, far too many restrictions on making them useful (I Don't agree with allowing Stellar Cartography tho - how would you get paid for the distance? I believe the voucher idea is a good one, so data is not lost on death.)

PVP? No, as they're completely passive

PP? They have very limited effect, save being used as a convenient base of operations.

The only thing I can see of any use of here is trading - and even that is restricted to be pretty useless.

It seems to me, that the previous idea of having support ships would have solved all these issues - but deemed to be too much work and was dropped in favour of what appears to be nothing but a floating Guild Hall, with very limited uses.

500ly for 2 hours spool is pointless. Increase that to 2000ly and that might be useful. Or reduce the spool to 30 mins. 15 mins wind up, 15 mins wind down.

Carriers are supposed to well, carry things. Usually ships. It sounds like Frontier is unwilling to open the galaxy up, probably because it'll be quickly discovered there is nothing else out there and all the action needs to stay in the bubble.

I was pretty excited about the concept of carriers. Now I have lost all interest because I can't see any real use case.

 

[Fibblesnork]

Maybe they will allow us to reach previously unexplored systems? The current theoretical max jump range is 320ish or so, with a Neutron star? Realistically you also need to get back so you're stuck with 240ish. A carrier offers more than double that..

That's a heck of a big credit dump just to go that extra distance. And what if you can't get back? Small points I know and on the whole, none of us know just yet.

I'm not altogether sure what my own expectations were but it does seem from a lot of comments here that many Commanders where expecting them to be really useful, invaluable in fact when honestly, they were never going to widespread, they were always going to be niche and the vast majority wouldn't be able to afford them.

ATEOTD I'm not going to call them as dissapointing and although I'm not sure I can justify a purchase, some Commanders will and maybe they'll make them work, maybe they won't. I would prefer that FDev stop saying what great opportunities this will open up for Explorers because it really doesn't look like they have a purpose in that regard.

 

[VoluptaBox]

That's a heck of a big credit dump just to go that extra distance. And what if you can't get back? Small points I know and on the whole, none of us know just yet.

I'm not altogether sure what my own expectations were but it does seem from a lot of comments here that many Commanders where expecting them to be really useful, invaluable in fact when honestly, they were never going to widespread, they were always going to be niche and the vast majority wouldn't be able to afford them.

ATEOTD I'm not going to call them as dissapointing and although I'm not sure I can justify a purchase, some Commanders will and maybe they'll make them work, maybe they won't. I would prefer that FDev stop saying what great opportunities this will open up for Explorers because it really doesn't look like they have a purpose in that regard.

Well considering that it would, in theory, allow us to reach players never touched before - with everything that it implies - I wouldn't call it a big credit dump.

As for the logistics of it, going to the farthest parts of the galaxy is already hard and takes a lot of careful planning. I don't see this as any different, except that it may involve multiple people. Most likely it doesn't even have to, just that it would take a lot longer in solo.

 

[Fibblesnork]

Well considering that it would, in theory, allow us to reach players never touched before - with everything that it implies - I wouldn't call it a big credit dump.

As for the logistics of it, going to the farthest parts of the galaxy is already hard and takes a lot of careful planning. I don't see this as any different, except that it may involve multiple people. Most likely it doesn't even have to, just that it would take a lot longer in solo.

A fair point however, if I may counter, beyond getting your name on a system and getting the "first discovered" bonus no other Commander is going to get to visit unless they also have a FC. Which brings me back to one of my original points which was, what are you going to do when you get there beyond explore some more and maybe do some tedious mining? Why bring a bunch of trading, combat and passenger ships (ie, your "fleet") if there's nothing you can use them for when you get there.

Like I say, your point is fair but something I realised about FC's is that they're going to be good (if a bit slow and resource hungry) for travelling an extra couple of hundred light years but what's the point of bring a fleet of ships when you can't make use of them. This is largely the reason why I've gone off the idea of a supply and repair point in the middle of nowhere, reachable of course and probably useful for passing explorers if they even knew it was there, but then what do I do? More exploring? I can do that already without having to drop billions of credits.

 

[Thorian Baalnorn]

Do you realize how many Carriers will be in Borann first day after launch?
And this is only one choke point...

Very few. Most players dont have 5 billion credits they want to part with even fewer are going to park it in Borann. Its a carrier not some sort of super miner.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

No, they are. Unhackable, have turrets and own security (depending on your standing) and no hull points. The only threat in theory would be people in the vicinity in Open. It was explicitly mentioned Thargoids don't care about them (unless led somehow), or decomissioning from upkeep.

Yes, I am aware of all that and I specifically said that I didn't want to talk about the implementation of FC but... people's expectations are unrealistic if they thought they were going to get more than we have. Keep in mind that 2 years ago, it was said the bulk of the team are moving on to the new era and therefore a reduced team would be delivering the rest of the Beyond conent; and that includes Fleet Carriers. As it stands, the only threat I can see is an owner walking away from the game.

Frontier may change that for the new era, but that won't be known for a few months yet.

 

[alexzk]

Well considering that it would, in theory, allow us to reach players never touched before - with everything that it implies - I wouldn't call it a big credit dump.

As for the logistics of it, going to the farthest parts of the galaxy is already hard and takes a lot of careful planning. I don't see this as any different, except that it may involve multiple people. Most likely it doesn't even have to, just that it would take a lot longer in solo.

In main galaxy body there are about 99 billions of stars never visited. And half of already visited are bad scanned as it was prior FSS. Just fixed yday 10 such systems less then 1000ly away from bubble. Just quit general route. For example, plot route from bubble to guardians. Then do 4-5 jumps like 30 degrees to this line to galactic center. That from that star plote route again to you target. You will have all the way 1st discoveries or bad scanned systems.

 

[Rubbernuke]

A fair point however, if I may counter, beyond getting your name on a system and getting the "first discovered" bonus no other Commander is going to get to visit unless they also have a FC. Which brings me back to one of my original points which was, what are you going to do when you get there beyond explore some more and maybe do some tedious mining? Why bring a bunch of trading, combat and passenger ships (ie, your "fleet") if there's nothing you can use them for when you get there.

Like I say, your point is fair but something I realised about FC's is that they're going to be good (if a bit slow and resource hungry) for travelling an extra couple of hundred light years but what's the point of bring a fleet of ships when you can't make use of them. This is largely the reason why I've gone off the idea of a supply and repair point in the middle of nowhere, reachable of course and probably useful for passing explorers if they even knew it was there, but then what do I do? More exploring? I can do that already without having to drop billions of credits.

The other thing to bear in mind is that FCs are considered a small content update despite the colossal price. To me this fits an FCs capability because it provides enhancements to logistics but not much else- in effect its a new menu that makes nice sounds.

Its unfortunate that this content was preceded by beginner stuff, and in a lull of no content releases. You have content for those starting and content for rich players, leaving a gap that people expected FCs to fill but did not- everyone now is fixating on something that for a lot of players is not for them.