Fleet Carriers - Trading and Exploration Improvements (NPCs buying commodities & specific exploration FC modules)

[NeilF]

Trading
Allow NPCs to buy from your FC. When you create a SELL, you can set the price of your commodity based on the price at a specific station, and define how much less you'll sell at compared to what the station is buying for (eg: 10%). Based on the percentage reduction, and the distance from your FC to the designated station, NPCs turn up to buy that commodity and carry it off to the designated station.

Only a small reduction in your sale price and/or a long distance to the designated station? NPCs rarely turn up. A large reduction in your sale price and/or a short distance to the designated station? NPS arrive more often.

If you're at your FC, you'll see NPCs turning up based on the above. If you're not, the server will chip away hourly/daily based on the above.

Exploration
Allow a (very large) FC module to produce Tritium using solar arrays. More efficient the nearer to a star, and how bright the star is etc. ie: Choosing which star to jump to now has some importance! OR, a massive scoop system to automatically scoop Tritium when in orbit around a planet with ice rings?

Allow a (large) FC module to scan nearby (unexplored) systems, and give basic (text?) information as to their content. ie: Is it worth going to them to explore?

Allow a (very large) FC module (heatsink?) to cool down quicker and jump more often. ie: So an exploration FC, is actually worth exploring with! Ideally it should allow them to make say a dozen jumps swiftly before a long (2hr?) cool down. In effect a massive heatsink which allows swift repeat jumps before an extended wait.

Allow a (small) FC module to allow Cartographics to be sold.

Note: These "large" and "very large" modules would eat up significant amounts of space (your 25000 units?) and prevent other features/modules being fitted.


EDIT (rough travel time comparison to Anaconda):-
Rough calculations would suggest if you want to go to a region to explore, that takes you 10 hours to get to in an Anaconda, you'd be talking well over 100+ hours to reach it in your exploration FC (as well as the numerous mining trips required). I'm more than happy for people to give me better/more accurate estimates.

EDIT (need one big wait, not lots of little ones):-
If we spitball any sort of notion around where we end up with 10-20-30 mins between jumps, what is the player going to do in that forced downtime? ie: So an Exploration FC is trying to get to region X, which will be days of travel away. How will making them wait tens of minutes at each stepping stone be enjoyable? What can they do?

Would it not make more sense for what ever mechanic is introduced to result in something like, they can make say 10 jumps fairly swiftly, then followed by an enforced 1-2 hour cool down? ie: So with those hours, they can then go and mine, explore locally, to have a more enjoyable forced pause/wait? Note: This behaviour would of course require the kind of module mentioned above.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Or, just have a Bussard scoop for gas giants / stars you park around for say, 30 minutes for a full tank and off you pop.

Plus, UC- maybe you could have one, but the credits earnt are based on distance- so if you are transmitting at the edge of the galaxy the cost of transmission is very high.

 

[NeilF]

Or, just have a Bussard scoop for gas giants / stars you park around for say, 30 minutes for a full tank and off you pop.

Yeh, there's a variety of alternatives for how Tritium could be generated, without the need to mining it.

But I'd suggest the module for this is monstrous, so it's a real consideration to fit it or not.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yeh, there's a variety of alternatives for how Tritium could be generated, without the need to mining it.

But I'd suggest the module for this is monstrous, so it's a real consideration to fit it or not.

If explorers are going to have such a monumental paddy over it, you might as well make it universal otherwise its setting up for underused modules later on that no-one uses.

 

[NeilF]

If explorers are going to have such a monumental paddy over it, you might as well make it universal otherwise its setting up for underused modules later on that no-one uses.

It's not so much as "making a monumental paddy " as instead, "simply not fit for purpose".

Exploration is a role that generally requires travelling long distances, often. FC's can't do that. So, as it stands FC's are basically not suitable for anything like regular exploration, and will actually comprise/restrict exploration to the extend I suspect many CMDRs will simply not bother with them.

By allowing a FC to be adapted (at huge storage expense) to be more suitable for exploration, we now have a chance of FCs actually being used (by explorers).

 

[Rubbernuke]

It's not so much as "making a monumental paddy " as instead, "simply not fit for purpose".

Exploration is a role that generally requires travelling long distances, often. FC's can't do that. So, as it stands FC's are basically not suitable for anything like regular exploration, and will actually comprise/restrict exploration to the extend I suspect many CMDRs will simply not bother with them.

By allowing a FC to be adapted (at huge storage expense) to be more suitable for exploration, we now have a chance of FCs actually being used (by explorers).

Maybe FD did not intend them to be exploration in the sense that people were expecting- or at all, and that they were repositioned as support roles? A bit like the support cars in the Tour de France, the bikes speed off and the cars with spare bikes keep back.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

Yeah, without the ability to trade with NPCs, my interest in FCs is reduced. But it seems that FDev has intentionally designed FCs so that they don't directly affect the BGS, so I'm not sure they will budge on that.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Maybe FD did not intend them to be exploration in the sense that people were expecting- or at all, and that they were repositioned as support roles? A bit like the support cars in the Tour de France, the bikes speed off and the cars keep back.

If that was the intent, there are many deep space stations already suitably placed. In 99% of the cases it will be faster to get to one of those rather than wait for the FC to "catch up". Plus all those stations are in fancy and goodlooking places.

Fleet carriers function seem to be white elephants for loaded players. It's fine, but they could be tuned to have utility beyond that.

 

[NeilF]

Maybe FD did not intend them to be exploration in the sense that people were expecting- or at all, and that they were repositioned as support roles? A bit like the support cars in the Tour de France, the bikes speed off and the cars keep back.

Maybe, but why have a specific "Exploration" role then for FCs? Why "advertise" what you can't offer?

How exactly are we meant to (as per the livestream), "If I want to do out long range exploring, add a bunch of stuff to add your Fleet Carrier that will allows you to go out exploring like you've never been able to do before!":-

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BJqDJp525k&t=4m52s​

Maybe we haven't seen this "bunch of stuff to add to your Fleet Carrier" yet? Can only hope so!

 

[Rubbernuke]

Maybe, but why have a specific "Exploration" role then for FCs? Why "advertise" what you can't offer?

How exactly are we meant to (as per the livestream), "If I want to do out long range exploring, add a bunch of stuff to add your Fleet Carrier that will allows you to go out exploring like you've never been able to do before!":-

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BJqDJp525k&t=4m52s​

Maybe we haven't seen this "bunch of stuff to add to your Fleet Carrier" yet? Can only hope so!

What I suggest is that your carrier acts as support during your exploration, rather than being the primary vehicle to begin with. So fuel, repairs- meaning you can then make your exploration ships with ever narrower margins because you don't need certain gear, and you have less chance of being marooned with a broken canopy or srv.

 

[NeilF]

What I suggest is that your carrier acts as support during your exploration, rather than being the primary vehicle to begin with. So fuel, repairs- meaning you can then make your exploration ships with ever narrower margins because you don't need certain gear, and you have less chance of being marooned with a broken canopy or srv.

Absolutely understood! Now, if your exploration is say 20,000ly away, do the maths on how long it will take you to get your FC there with what we know so far... As well as you having to constantly nursemaid it with mining efforts every couple of jumps...

 

[Muetdhiver]

I agree, FC should more act as support ship for exploring. But even in that role they would no be worth the hastle. 2h/jump ? It's just silly and unreasonnable. Moving your support ship will take the lion share of your "exploration" time.

As support for an expedition I could see it done, mostly for RP as there is not much on offer that can't be done otherwise, save a broken canopy.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Absolutely understood! Now, if your exploration is say 20,000ly away, do the maths on how long it will take you to get your FC there with what we know so far... As well as you having to constantly nursemaid it with mining efforts every couple of jumps...

Who said it was a race? (Given, some places are raced to because of lore or something weird) Are FCs the new race cars? I thought exploration was about taking in the sights, or have I got that wrong? Is this an FSS time scan honk thing all over in all but name?

 

[NeilF]

Who said it was a race? (Given, some places are raced to because of lore or something weird) Are FCs the new race cars? I thought exploration was about taking in the sights, or have I got that wrong? Is this an FSS time scan honk thing all over in all but name?

You've concocted a strawman there. So again, you want to explore a region say 20,000ly away. Me personally I'd want to get there in a reasonably fast time, and then explore. Envisage trying to get your "support vehicle" to that region, only jumping every few hours, mining every other stop... Does that sound like you're going to get to your destination in a sensible amount of time? Especially if we compare it to say travelling there just in an Anaconda?

Is it fit (fun) for purpose if it forces you to take multiple times more weeks to get there? Let alone back...

Surely a dedicated exploration FC should be able to jump long distances over times at least roughly in the same ball park as an average Anaconda? If not, why not? Why deter the use of this new content?

 

[Rubbernuke]

You've concocted a strawman there. So again, you want to explore a region say 20,000ly away. Me personally I'd want to get there in a reasonably fast time, and then explore. Envisage trying to get your "support vehicle" to that region, only jumping every few hours, mining every other stop... Does that sound like you're going to get to your destination in a sensible amount of time? Especially if we compare it to say travelling there just in an Anaconda?

Is it fit (fun) for purpose if it forces you to take multiple times more weeks to get there? Let alone back...

Surely a dedicated exploration FC should be able to jump long distances over times at least roughly in the same ball park as an average Anaconda? If not, why not? Why deter the use of this new content?

Me personally

Again, why is time now the deciding factor all of a sudden? Why is suddenly the people who take time to go all over forgotten? FCs have logistics to offset what they can do, if you don't like that, you risk it al fresco in the tinfoil Anaconda. It seems you are thinking of these vessels like regular ships when they are very different.

 

[NeilF]

Again, why is time now the deciding factor all of a sudden? Why is suddenly the people who take time to go all over forgotten? FCs have logistics to offset what they can do, if you don't like that, you risk it al fresco in the tinfoil Anaconda. It seems you are thinking of these vessels like regular ships when they are very different.

So again, if I want to explore 20,000ly away, what benefit is there in making it take multiple times slower to take an exploration FC to that location, than not? What gamplay improvement is there in making it nigh on so slow to travel long distances with an FC, many/most CMDRs will not bother?

 

[Rubbernuke]

So again, if I want to explore 20,000ly away, what benefit is there in making it take multiple times slower to take an exploration FC to that location, than not? What gamplay improvement is there in making it nigh on so slow to travel long distances with an FC, many/most CMDRs will not bother?

And again, why the rush? The gameplay improvement is the carriers abilities you gain balanced with keeping it going. If thats not to your taste don't get one, its not something thats essential is it, just because its new?

 

[Wendake]

Will copy / paste here from another post I made.

Problem is that in the actual state it really won't be usefull for a lot of CMDRs.

Even though you have the 5BN it'll still be pointless to sink 5 billions to be able to have some storage capacity (which should have always been a possibility in game and should have been purchasable at your home station for example).

I really thought that the customization would touch other aspects than simply opening new services.

Would have been nice if adding specific modules would have a real impact like :

Exploration :

• selling UC
• module allowing a faster jump sequence
• module that automatically fully scan / map every bodies in the system where the FC jump
• module that allow to "scan" a small "bubble" of X ly around where the system where the FC is and give probability to find WW, EW, POIs in one of the system inside the scanned "bubble"
• module that increase fuel scooping and FSD charge sequence when inside the X ly bubble previously described

Trading :

Selling ships and modules is kinda useless IMO...most of the people will simply have their own ships & modules transfered to the FCs once they land on it. Same goes for commodity markets...what's the point if you can only sell at a higher price than what is available on the market ? And who will come to your FC anyway ?

• What could have been nice is if the FC owner could sell premium ammo for example or some "unique" stuff that you can only get on the FC.
• Being able to manufacture some stuff and sell it (I can understand that engineered modules can't be sold - it would be too easy for a player starting the game to skip the engineers unlocking and get what he wants too quickly).
• Module that allow bulk transfer to load / sell commodities no nearest startport

That's a first draft of what I think could have made the FC more "unique" and really usefull for end-game players.

 

[NeilF]

And again, why the rush? The gameplay improvement is the carriers abilities you gain balanced with keeping it going. If thats not to your taste don't get one, its not something thats essential is it, just because its new?

Again, what gameplay benefit is there in making exploration FCs so slow, many CMDRs simply won't use them for exploration?

Are you able to give me a benefit in making an exploration FC so unfit for purpose, explorers won't use it for exploration?

And to address your strawman, it's not a "race car", it's simply allowing an exploration FC to travel at a speed that is at least roughly in the same ball park as an average Anaconda. Not to instead make it so slow, exploration trips are hobbled by it.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Actually, it would me a lot of sense if FC could be used to buy and sell stuff like :

• engineered modules (sell)
• crafting components (buy and sell)
• fully outfitted ships or even engineered ships that you own (sell)

In short, create a player driven market for stuff that existing stations don't sell or provide. IMO that would make 1000x more sense
that what I'm seeing here.