ANNOUNCEMENT Fleet Carriers Update - Patch 3

[MishaTX]

Are people still crashing out of ED in systems filled with carriers?

Luck based, I think. I haven't had any crashes on PC for a while now, but still a lot of "blue tunnels" when entering systems with an abundance of Space Herpes in them. Which doesn't bother me too much, as long as I arrive. I just take another sip of my drink while waiting.

Last week, though, it was Orange Sidewinders everywhere.

But I hear that our console buddies are having a hell of a time getting anywhere even remotely popular thanks to the abundance of the planned "rare" FCs. I could be wrong, though, since I don't play on console.

 

[Nikephorus Phocas]

Luck based, I think. I haven't had any crashes on PC for a while now, but still a lot of "blue tunnels" when entering systems with an abundance of Space Herpes in them. Which doesn't bother me too much, as long as I arrive. I just take another sip of my drink while waiting.

Last week, though, it was Orange Sidewinders everywhere.

But I hear that our console buddies are having a hell of a time getting anywhere even remotely popular thanks to the abundance of the planned "rare" FCs. I could be wrong, though, since I don't play on console.

It's been bad. I think we get Mauve Adders. Depends on where you go though. FC swamped systems are certainly more or less crashing the console.

 

[3NitroT6]

Are people still crashing out of ED in systems filled with carriers? I'd like to head back to the Bubble and build a new exploration ship with multicrew in mind, but not if I can't visit the Engineers without Orange Sidewinders and CTDs.

Have had only one orange crash about a week ago, on PC. Recently been to several systems (looking to stock up on cheap Tritium) that were carrier locked and had no problem getting in, other than a bit of lag but nothing untenable. Have not been to any engineering systems.

 

[Northpin]

But I hear that our console buddies are having a hell of a time getting anywhere even remotely popular thanks to the abundance of the planned "rare" FCs. I could be wrong, though, since I don't play on console.

Unfortunately, you are not wrong - my XB account is (was) having a hard time in carrier heavy systems - this was last week tho, i'm in vacation now for a full week already, so i only did a little post patch PC testing.

 

[Malcolm Tucker]

I'm a hipster so I don't go anywhere mainstream.

Engineer areas have been mostly tolerable with regards to plague carriers. Deciat is predictably iffy though, haven't been there in weeks though.

Ngalinn/Mainani are packed full of the things too, though those areas are presently garbage for rep grind. No performance issues to report.

All on Xbawks. Trying to source my own mining spots and trade routes.

 

[Johnny7ee]

...
In addition I still feel like I don't own this FC! The greeting I get is way too bog standard "welcome Commander follow rules and Dock!" Why can't the FC identify my ships as the owner? It is quite personal when the weekly fee is taken off me. Fix this please FDEV!

+1 on this! It should say "Welcome back, Commander" or something that recognizes I'm not just another pilot landing. I spent 5 freakin billion on this carrier, would be nice to be recognized when landing on it. PLEASE fix this. Because right now, I keep having to say (under my breath), "It's me, clown. Now get back to work or your #$$ is fired!"

 

[TCTowers]

+1 on this! It should say "Welcome back, Commander" or something that recognizes I'm not just another pilot landing. I spent 5 freakin billion on this carrier, would be nice to be recognized when landing on it. PLEASE fix this. Because right now, I keep having to say (under my breath), "It's me, clown. Now get back to work or your #$$ is fired!"

The conversation every time I fly back to my Carrier-
Welcome to our Carrier Commander, I hope you enjoy your stay with us.

ITS MY F**ING CARRIER, YOU’RE SACKED!!!

*- she has a sexy french voice, she doesn’t get sacked.

 

[bigcee75]

So, still no new info on any kind of fix for mining especially tritium. I'm starting to think we should start charging you guys at Frontier upkeep see how you like it

 

[ocflyer]

deleted

 

[shadowwar]

I do believe when I get back to the bubble I will sell my Fleet Carrier. Anyone want a used slightly soiled Fleet Carrier? I will sell it because I can't find enough Tritium to refuel it. And Frontier FDEVs will do sweet FA to fix this. Of this I am quite sure.

And here is what always surprises me. The CM NEVER reply to posts that are negative. Only to the ones that preen their egos. That is utter garbage. Do your job! Manage the expectations of your community. Don't ignore all of us! We won't go meekly into the depths of space. Having said this that's what I did with mine. But then you ruined Tritium and LTD mining. And you don't say anything to us either. And THAT was before the bl**dy weekend.

You are rude to us all. There is no excuse for being rude to us all.

 

[Kestrel71]

Exactly it is all about perception. Everything in ED is a grind if you choose to view it that way. What puzzles me about laser mining is that it is a boring repetitive game loop and requires very little skill. That is not to say that ED has no problems. There are aspects of gameplay where the effort involved is not commensurate with the reward achieved.
I suspect with mining that there are some unintended consequences to what they have done and they will rebalance it in due course.

I can't find the original link, but someone described "grind" versus, "G---R---I---N---D" (FDEV style) as being akin to having to walk 100 miles to gain some reward. If you let me walk 1 mile 100 times, that's one thing; I'll enjoy the walk each time. If you make me walk 100 miles once, that's a whole different ballgame and I am not going to enjoy one bit of it.

 

[Noveske]

After a month and a half in 2015, you may have gotten to a T7, if you were lucky.

And in 2015 engineering didn't exist, guardian stuff didn't exist.

I came back to this game for FC and to try it out with my new Index HMD. I wouldn't have stayed with 2015 level earnings and the engineering/guardian grind.

To be honest I haven't been blind to the fact that when I play im usually telling myself ill just grind XX a bit longer and then I'll do something "fun". My plan was to explore 200 hours ago but then I fell into their skinner box.

One thing thats been around since the very beginning that still bugs me is that exploring essentially bans you from playing with your friends. You can't leave a combat ship in the bubble and switch back and forth. Need 2 copies for that. Im sure someone will excuse why its "needed" but the reality is its just poor design. Its a game, it shouldn't work against you.

 

[v_evets]

The big difference to X is, it doesn't make you wait for nothing. You can turn on SETA over night and let your factories do the work. You'll get your billions while sleeping.

I've been playing X games since BTF, and I can honestly say I've never done that... For much the same reasons I don't save-scum or run trainers or cheats.
If bypassing as much content as possible as quickly as possible with a minimum of effort is the goal, there are ways to achieve it in most games. If that's what you want, it's probably time to take a good long look at whether you'd be better off playing something you actually enjoy.

If you enjoy mining, more power to you, and you should make a fair amount of progress doing it. If you're only mining because it's by far the fastest way to get to end-game content, you're either playing a mining simulator or game balance and progression mechanics are broken.

What makes the grind real is boring game loops.

Indeed. That and being driven to engage in boring game loops because of balance problems.

Crystal mining in X4 is literally the single most boring and repetitive task in the game, yet people bemoaned its nerfing because being boring and repetitive also made it safe, easy cash.
Some even went as far as to claim that nerfing a near-zero-effort money mine made the game "not good for casual"... In X4 of all things.

Much the same holds true for ED, While there are certainly some people who enjoy mining, and probably some who enjoy relogging at material gathering spots too, the reason the vast majority engage in these activities is because it's the fastest and easiest way to progress... In a game that clearly intended such progress to require time and effort.
Apparently there are a great many people out there for whom getting to the end-game content quickly is more important than experiencing the journey. Pandering to them is how you make an exploitative mobile game, not a space MMO.

If an exploit is short-circuiting intended progression or a certain activity is devaluing all others, patch it. Not patching it leads to players grinding those things exclusively, in order to keep up with everyone else who is grinding those things.

If the intended gameplay loop is too grindy, then it needs to be made more interesting, not just have the payout buffed. That way leads to power creep, shallow gameplay, and even more grinding.

Are people still crashing out of ED in systems filled with carriers?

Yup.
To be fair that example was the worst I've seen it myself, usually it's just abominable lag coming out of SC.

I am however one of those odd people who make noise about a problem proportional to how many other people are having problems with it, moreso even than my own pain.
Console players are still crashing, and that's not fair. It's especially not fair that established players end-game assets, primarily attained through exploiting balance issues, are effectively (if unintentionally) DOSing others.

 

[Noveske]

The problem right now is three fold:

1) the bait and switch. You calculated how long it would take to mine fuel and how long it would take to earn that upkeep money so you bought a FC. They fdev changed it overnight. Its like your house payment randomly going way up or way down while your job also randomly changes your weekly wage.

2) they rewarded the exploiters. Those who earned enough to buy their FC and then went off to explore or play other things expected a certain cr/hr rate so they knew their FC would cost them X/hrs per month to maintain. But those that ground the egg for 50+ hours over its few weeks of life have hundreds of billions of credits.

3) and worst of all the players who decided to play within the game and try and work them market as designed and setup their FC as a trading hub and buy product from miners and resell it for a profit got so severely burned many of them might have hundreds of hours worth of credits go up in flames. Thankfully i knew better then to trust fdev not to upend core components of the economy with zero warning so I kept all my product liquid at all times. But that means i use the FC like a giant semi instead of a station like intended.

Maybe they need to take on the medical professions tenant of "do no harm" and not change something at all if it causes harm.

An endless credit fountain might undermine a players enjoyment if he uses it but it doesn't undermine mine or other players (unless you use ingame accomplishments as a yardstick for personal worth, but that wouldnt be the games issue). Even if you have unlimited credits you still need a different "currency" for guardian gear, engineering gear, powerplay gear, etc. But the changes have undermined the enjoyment of explorers who intended to collect fuel in the black.

 

[v_evets]

1)

Yup, but IMO the bait was the bigger mistake. The switch is simply the predictable overreaction when someone realised how bad it was getting.

2)

They didn't jump on that exploit nearly quickly enough... As usual

3)

Indeed. Maintaining liquidity IRL is also a good idea. Devs change things, stock markets crash. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a risky move in any case.

An endless credit fountain might undermine a players enjoyment if he uses it but it doesn't undermine mine or other players (unless you use ingame accomplishments as a yardstick for personal worth, but that wouldnt be the games issue).

In a single-player game that's true, but in a fundamentally competitive MMO environment it means the exploiters have bigger toys than everyone else, so everyone exploits.

Even if you have unlimited credits you still need a different "currency" for guardian gear, engineering gear, powerplay gear, etc.

Breaking the primary economy is a bad thing for everyone, regardless of what other gates are in place. If it was intended for credits to be meaningless, ships would all be free.

The mistake has been made. Fixing it will require breaking some eggs. So be it. ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Noveske]

In a single-player game that's true, but in a fundamentally competitive MMO environment it means the exploiters have bigger toys than everyone else, so everyone exploits.

Except this isn't a "fundamentally competitive" MMO. Not even close. It has barely functional CO-OP much less MMO qualities. You can enable a PvP flag if you want an occasionally get ganked if thats your thing, but "fundamentally competitive" it is not. In fact the closest it comes to MMO is we all get our stats written to the same database.

Their "broken" game brought more players then they have had in years. That should tell you something about the core loop, and it isn't good.

I think some of the postive comments are players salty about the negatives of FC (their persistence breaking the game and cluttering up UI and system panels) but that isn't the players fault who bought the FC or was excited about playing with FCs. Thats the fault of fdev for not making sure their servers and the client (both console and PC) was going to be able to handle the new load placed on it.

 

[v_evets]

this isn't a "fundamentally competitive" MMO. Not even close.

Directly, no... Assuming you hide in solo/PG of course.
Indirectly, most activities are competitive in some way if you are even remotely involving the BGS.

Their "broken" game major update and game going on sale repeatedly brought more players then they have had in years.

FTFY.

I think some of the postive comments are players salty about the negatives of FC

FWIW, I am mildly salty over the performance problems and slew of bugs that the FC update brought, and that's directed squarely at FD's tech team. I was considerably more salty about the longstanding critical balance failure and obsession with mining, and still am with the number of other (mostly logout/relog related) exploits in the game.

If nerfing mining makes balance less broken, I'm all for it. If it goes some way to making other activities (like, say, combat) comparably profitable, even better.
If it also means people can't clutter popular systems with FCs and cause performance problems as a side-effect, then it's not really the right solution to that problem... But whatever, I'll take it anyway.

 

[alexzk]

One thing thats been around since the very beginning that still bugs me is that exploring essentially bans you from playing with your friends. You can't leave a combat ship in the bubble and switch back and forth. Need 2 copies for that. Im sure someone will excuse why its "needed" but the reality is its just poor design. Its a game, it shouldn't work against you.

This is called multicrew ... however if you want just pew-pew alone without friend on ship - u stuck. Other sides of Galaxy are dead.

 

[GhostTracker212]

I've been playing X games since BTF, and I can honestly say I've never done that... For much the same reasons I don't save-scum or run trainers or cheats.
If bypassing as much content as possible as quickly as possible with a minimum of effort is the goal, there are ways to achieve it in most games. If that's what you want, it's probably time to take a good long look at whether you'd be better off playing something you actually enjoy.

If you enjoy mining, more power to you, and you should make a fair amount of progress doing it. If you're only mining because it's by far the fastest way to get to end-game content, you're either playing a mining simulator or game balance and progression mechanics are broken.


Indeed. That and being driven to engage in boring game loops because of balance problems.

Crystal mining in X4 is literally the single most boring and repetitive task in the game, yet people bemoaned its nerfing because being boring and repetitive also made it safe, easy cash.
Some even went as far as to claim that nerfing a near-zero-effort money mine made the game "not good for casual"... In X4 of all things.

Much the same holds true for ED, While there are certainly some people who enjoy mining, and probably some who enjoy relogging at material gathering spots too, the reason the vast majority engage in these activities is because it's the fastest and easiest way to progress... In a game that clearly intended such progress to require time and effort.
Apparently there are a great many people out there for whom getting to the end-game content quickly is more important than experiencing the journey. Pandering to them is how you make an exploitative mobile game, not a space MMO.

If an exploit is short-circuiting intended progression or a certain activity is devaluing all others, patch it. Not patching it leads to players grinding those things exclusively, in order to keep up with everyone else who is grinding those things.

If the intended gameplay loop is too grindy, then it needs to be made more interesting, not just have the payout buffed. That way leads to power creep, shallow gameplay, and even more grinding.




Yup.
To be fair that example was the worst I've seen it myself, usually it's just abominable lag coming out of SC.

I am however one of those odd people who make noise about a problem proportional to how many other people are having problems with it, moreso even than my own pain.
Console players are still crashing, and that's not fair. It's especially not fair that established players end-game assets, primarily attained through exploiting balance issues, are effectively (if unintentionally) DOSing others.

How do I give more than a single like to this brilliant brilliant reply?

 

[DarkStarSword]

If bypassing as much content as possible as quickly as possible with a minimum of effort is the goal, there are ways to achieve it in most games. If that's what you want, it's probably time to take a good long look at whether you'd be better off playing something you actually enjoy.

For some people, finding ways to break a game is a far more enjoyable and satisfying experience than playing the game "properly". Why do you think speed runners and glitch hunters exist? Age of Empires had some of the best cheatcodes in gaming history - why conquer Rome with an army of Horses when you could use Babies with shotguns on tricycles? It's not cheating you of an experience - it's providing a vastly different experience.