Focused Feedback Thread - Outfitting UI in Odyssey

Lazerus Artificial · Jun 5, 2021

Does this count as Part of the Outfitting Screen?
I mean, technically buying and selecting your Ship is part of it, right?
If so, i have just one simple question...

Why cant i interact with the "Your Ships" list? Whats the need for the "Manage Your Ships" Button, if i already have a List on the right, that shows me MORE informations than the "Manage Your Ships" Section?

The List on the right shows me where my Ship is located, while the Submenu only shows me where it is once i click on a Ship.

Personally i think it would be better to get rid of that Menu entirely, and just use the list with interactive Ship-Buttons. Click on a Ship, get a popup that allows you to do things with it.

TANDKO · Jun 5, 2021

Winterwalker · Jun 5, 2021

Yes .. shipyard is the worst thing of anything for me. Outfitting fixable with a couple changes only.

Shipyard is ok for a concourse shop front (that's kind of cool when buying a ship) but for fleet management I don't care my paintjob only what modules of what size and engineering, how far away the ship is .. nearest first and I want that info right away and pronto.

For ships I own I'm not looking to be impressed but for pure functionality. This I think is why Horizons UI's have the edge.

CMDR Myrrhth · Jun 6, 2021

1. When installing modules from Stored modules section, after installing a stored module the ui defaults to the Ship Loadout section rather than the Stored Modules section, making it a pain to install multiple stored modules in a row. When you have chosen to equip the ship from Stored Modules section, the ui should default back to the Stored Modules section until you manually select a different section.

2. The Shop section should have only Shop items, the Stored Modules section should have only Stored Modules. When selecting a module slot from the Ship Loadout section we should be able to choose from BOTH of either the Shop or Module Storage to fill that slot. Right now we can only choose from the shop. Make stored modules available from ship loadout section.

3. The Shop section has no use at the moment. It COULD be useful, however, if you could purchase any size module available from the shop regardless of what ship you're in, and place it in storage. This would allow you to go to a station that sells a particular module, and buy as many modules of any size as you need for any of your ships, and have them transferred to the other ship's location, rather than having to travel to that station in a ship of the relevant size.

For example if I wanted to buy an 8A Shield Generator from Shinrarta, but my Imperial Cutter has a very low jump range and is located in Deciat; I could travel to Shinrarta in my DBX, purchase the 8A shield generator from the Shop section to be placed in storage, then travel back to Deciat and have the module shipped over to be installed into my Cutter.

Wildcard · Jun 6, 2021

Go back to the old Ship Outfitting UI

67Mistakenot · Jun 6, 2021

Looking at the ship transfer screen, it looks very nice but is missing a number of key features:

1. As many CMDRs have mentioned, there's not nearly enough information displayed for each ship - I have several Krait Mk IIs for example and need to look at the spec of each ship to see which one I need. Also I have one in Colonia and I don't want to be transferring that back to The Bubble by accident. If I can't see enough details, I'm just guessing.

2. The grid system of viewing the ships in the old Horizons version was an absolute godsend if you're managing a lot of ships, as I am. The ability to click on the column headings to sort by that column was extraordinarily helpful, could we please have something similar back. Please. Please. Pleeeeasse!

3. The sideways scrolling along the bottom, both here and actually in Pioneer Supplies too, is a right pain. It would be alleviated to some degree if the left-right scrolling could be bound to the mouse-wheel. I have looked, and if that's an existing feature in the bindings screen, I can't find it.

4. The "Fleet" screens of either EDSM or Inara are so much more useful. In an ideal world, I would like to see my ships in a grid with a photo and the name, have the grid sortable by ship model, ship name, distance from your current location, and cost to transfer. When you click on a ship photo it brings up a detail screen in which you can see the installed modules, jump range, fuel capacity, together with any engineering to modules.

5. The ability to transfer a ship not to where you are, but to another location, so it's there before you arrive would be of real benefit.

6. The ability to sell limpets from the shipyard, so when you have 30 limpets on board, but you're moving to a ship with a cargo space of 8, you don't have to go to the maintenance screen to sell them, then go back to the shipyard to get into your intended ship. This particular thing has been driving me nuts for years, and being able to sell limpets from the shipyard is something I would pay good ARX for, frankly.

7. Being able to leave cargo on the ship where it is, not transfer it with you. So you cal leave your 300 tonnes of Tritium on the Cutter you've been mining it in, jump into your Viper for something fun, and then go back to complete your mining. This would be of real benefit to many CMDRs, and as a side benefit would alleviate the limpet issue.

I appreciate those are quite wide-ranging, but I think they all fit into this area to some degree at least.

CMDR Myrrhth · Jun 6, 2021

Bruce G said:
I appreciate the brevity here, but can you be more specific? Are you talking about modules/module slot sizes?

He's referring to the modules in the shop. They have dots to indicate their size instead of numerals which makes it inconvenient to to determine their size at a glance. 1 or 2 dots is fine but when you go larger you may accidentally install a smaller module than intended when in a hurry or doing multiple installations. Arabic numerals replaced Roman numerals for this reason (among others): they represent a large number with small and distinctive symbol so they can be comprehended at a glance. In 3307 this innovation would presumably be well established.

Sn4ke · Jun 6, 2021

1. All modules need to show what engineering is applied to them all the time wherever they are and on all screens of the UI, at the moment you can only see what engineering is on a module if it actually on your ship, if you are trying to find say a particular engineered Plasma Accelerator you have stored you have to one by one by one by one fit them to your ship until you find the right engineered one.

2.Be able to fit stored modules to your ship while your in your ship load out like you can in Horizons, at the moment you have to come out of ship loadout and go into stored modules and put them in that way.

3.When in ship load out you should be able to compare fitted engineered module against stats of stored engineered module....just like you can currently in Horizons.

4.The default when you replace a stored module should be to store it not sell it........too many commanders have lost modules to this.

5.Get rid of the dots for actual numbers.

vanFace · Jun 6, 2021

For giving good feedback, I am missing background information on the intention of the UI change. Perhaps FDev can give a little statement on this regards?

If the intention was to unify the look&feel of the UI with what started in the FC update, I think the "look" was spot on, but the "feel" has many shortcomings. Everything written here from too many pop-ups, too many clicks, confirmation in the wrong place ("do you really want to buy and equip"), no confirmation where it counts ("let's just default that switch to sell"), long work-flows for e.g. stored module transfer, etc. shows that the UI change failed in the "feel" part. I can also only recommend rolling back to Horizons and re-design from there, it is IMHO a better approach than trying to fix the many things that are wrong now.

If the intention was to proactively slow the player down in order to make it a time sink to swap outfit in the first place, the job was done perfectly. The many "I'll log in to Horizons just for outfitting" clearly shows that success there. I can even understand such an intention from the game-play side, but if it is so, I'd suggest instead putting this delay in with actual game features instead of UI blocks. E.g. make the UI so that you first assemble a list of outfit changes without all the animations of swapped modules and without the artificial slow-down in the pop-ups, and later on click on some "Initiate process" button to let a crew swap those modules according to the list, which of course can take a longer time with all the animations playing out. That would even help immersion if you give players the possibility to stand outside in the hangar to watch the works going on.

Phoenyx_Risen · Jun 6, 2021

My main concern I had was with the UI menu, it had many features from the old UI menu missing or hidden without any sort of start up guide/training for the new UI menu (Not everyone watched all the Alpha YouTube videos), where maybe for a short time it had pop up bubbles to show you were a certain function or feature was.

There were missing information the Outfitting menu;
ISSUE - You can't see the engineering information on your stored modules in one click - you have to load the module onto your ship to view the new modifications tab.
SOLUTION - Have the same modifications tab available across the stored modules and loaded modules

ISSUE - You cant 'transfer' your stored module onto your ship directly from the stored module section (Which was available in the old UI)
SOLUTION - Make the transfer module to ship facility available again in the stored module section.

ISSUE - The whole Pilot/Station/Ship Outfitting colour scheme is incompatible and the new yellow colour makes me physically nauseous (NO JOKE). After around an hour of wandering around in the pilot equip and suit menus I was feeling sick. The yellow colour is all wrong. It doesn't go with the original Orange and Blue. After navigating through the menu and then trying to play Odyssey I had to stop playing as I felt really nauseous.
SOLUTION - 2 options - 1. Change the UI colour theme to make it able to be chosen by the user to suit their colour preferences. Have a colour scheme menu either in the livery or in the options of the main ED menu to change the colours of the UI menus and also the cockpit colours to suit the user.
2. Change the colour scheme of the UI menu and remove the yellow and replace it with maybe a teal blue, off white, mid green or red.

MartinG · Jun 6, 2021

I have already given feedback in this thread, but I would like to add my thoughts about the Module Shop.

I think the Module Shop would be an awesome addition if:

it showed all modules available at the station, without filtering by slot sizes available on the current ship or by available credits (filtering by permissions like Powerplay ranks is fine)
we could buy modules straight to the storage (“Buy and Store” alongside “Buy and Equip”).

Armour is a somewhat special case, because armour sets for different ship types are distinct despite having the same names. For the first iteration, I guess filtering by current ship type would be acceptable. It would be nice to be able to buy armour for other ship types, too (straight to the storage, of course), but I guess it would need some dedicated UI element (perhaps after selecting Armour the player would be asked to select ship type, with the current ship as the default choice).

Fi5hboN3 · Jun 6, 2021

1. Stored modules that are not stored local. it would be nice for them to be displayed in another coloured or darker shade, so at a glance you could see that they are not stored local rather than having to click on them.
and as it's been said selecting a engineered module, shows no engineered info
idea below...

CamelNumber1 · Jun 6, 2021

Dear team,

please see the attached document with my feedback about the outfitting.

Here are some highlights:

Want: I want to be able to save different loadouts for my ship
Want: I want to be able to store more modules
Don’t want: using ships as module wardrobes
I'm not too sure what the dots and numbers are trying to tell me exactly, I know it's to do with module size or amounts but I'm not sure if it's what's available or what my ship can cope with or what my ship already has.
Module shup: presented with the valid locations, ideally by schematic or a cutaway view of the actual ship, so I can understand the positions of hardpoints, core and optional modules for this particular ship.
Want: I want to be able to save and select different loadouts for my ship
- In a similar way as for the on foot loadouts, I need to be able to save different loadouts for each ship, and then select a loadout to apply when I am docked at a location with outfitting or when I change ships
- IF I have selected a loadout and some of the modules are on another ship, those modules will be stripped from the other ship.
- If I have selected a loadout and the modules are at another location, on a different ship. I will be told that it will take x time and y credits before the ship is ready. Do I want to continue? (Choosing “yes” will execute the change.)
- The ship will be unavailable for use until the loadout has been applied. It is not possible to cancel.
In module storage selecting a specific module:
- This tells me what, where and how many.
- This doesn’t tell me what engineering is applied to a particular module. There is a nice blank space under the module stats OR it could be a tabbed pane just like on the load out.

Please read the attached doc, because I've included screen shots and more explanatory text which will hopefully explain things a bit more that the above.

If you need anything clarifying, please let me know.

best regards,

Camel Number 1 (CMDR)

Jontst · Jun 6, 2021

The ability to have saved ship loadouts please. You have multi-purpose ships in game. So we don't have to individually change 12 modules from a combaut build to a mining build.

Haytham · Jun 6, 2021

They outfitting UI just need a clear prompt whether you want to sell or store the currently equipped module, like it was before. Instead of having the little checkbox switch. This is mainly an issue for old players who were used to how it was. But it IS easy to miss that check switch. And off you are with your G5 engineered module unless you pay attention.
For me, it is actually not bad the way it is. Mainly because I play with a Joystick, and the trigger is dying and double clicks. Previously if you did that, you sold off the module anyways. As well as declining some wing missions by accident due to the memory function for the selected button.

I love the new outfitting menu otherwise. I particularly like the way your stored modules are now categorized. Not an issue if you only have 20 modules stored, but when you have 120 the list was getting a bit long. I'm very happy this was implemented.

Tiron Elite · Jun 6, 2021

Overall thoughts – I like the "chunking" of the modules such that we can see an entire group of hard points like we did in Horizons.
Additionally, I like how we can use the stored modules to speed input modules into our ship.

Specific Issues –

The highlighted centered and seemingly default outfitting only seems to allow us to buy new items while the stored module, null colored, and bottom listed outfitting seems to be more useful to add engineered modules.
We cannot add stored and engineered items to our ship from the outfitting menu.
We cannot see what items are engineered with within the outfitting menu we can only see the bonuses to the stats.
There seems to be an additional, unnecessary, and redundant clicks to select categorical items. An example can be seen when selecting the power plant, a core module, where a player needs to select their power plant, then select to put a power plant in that slot, and then select what kind of power plant they want to put into that slot. As one can only put power plants into their respective slot this extra click seems unnecessary and redundant. This applies to all core modules.
When looking at the grades and size of modules, I find it more clear and concise to look at numbers and letters rather than dots.

Suggested Fixes for the Issues –

If the intention is to have players use the outfitting and stored modules in two different fashions where outfitting is meant to add new items and stored to meant to add engineered and stored items. This needs to be communicated better to the player base as it was done much more concise within horizons.
Adding to point 1, we should be allowed to just add our stored items to our ships through the outfitting menu. This would save time and prevent many player gripes that seem to long for Horizons.
This seems straight forward, just add a a bit of text under the module's stats that tells the player what engineering modifications are on the module. Example, Grade 5 Long range with regeneration sequence experimental text printed below the module's stats.
I understand that this additional click many be meant for the other sections of the ship, optional, hard points, and utilities. With that said, treat the core class special and just remove the extra click.
Letters and numbers would be far less confusing, I find the dots extremely confusing when looking at sizes 4+. Example, .... ...... ..... ........ ....... what are these numbers? now imagine them in an array of grades.
1. Much of the confusion around number 5 can be cleaned up by changing the sorting of modules, but many players do not seem to know how to do that. So teach them or use the letters and numbers.

Freyar · Jun 6, 2021

Bruce G said:
Greetings Commanders,

Last week we posted a forum thread discussing optimisation and map UI in Odyssey. We'd like to thank you all for your comments and feedback which were gratefully received by the development team. A series of changes to UI based on that feedback can be expected in an upcoming patch alongside other improvements.

Now it's time to turn our attention to the Outfitting UI. We're well aware that this is a hot topic and want to ensure that feedback is gathered accurately and effectively. For each suggestion or piece of feedback, please clearly state the observation and beneath it offer any suggestions you have to improve the experience. Keeping these brief and to the point where possible will also be helpful.

As before, any replies to other comments or off topic/non-constructive posts may be removed to keep the thread as practical and useful as possible. For unrelated discussion, please find or create other threads over in Dangerous Discussion.

O7

Ship Fitting UI

Problems

The overuse of iconography makes it hard to understand just what is what. Use text where text is appropriate.
The space required to display options is too high, wasting valuable real-estate on the screen.
The flow for equipping things to your ship is confusing. The redesign goes against "What is available for my ship" principles.
When buying/selecting a new module, already equipped modules show up in a way that is confusing since they aren't relevant for selection.
Storage is not usable without first going to storage.

Solutions

Use less icons, more text. Text is not a bad thing and while it does mean there is localization effort for it, it does mean that the options are clear.
Reduce the use of "pretty" boxes to represent equipment. I want a list, even a table is fine, Use my space in a way that respects it. You could even allow for comparison between items in the same class if you had a table method instead of the Windows Metro styled UI.
There seems to be a misunderstanding on what someone is attempting to do when they are in this function. Are they checking what the store has, or are they looking to install items to the ship? Favor showing me what's available to my ship instead. I will likely have the ship I want to modify there.
Hide modules already installed when buying a replacement.
Allow me to see what I have in storage (galaxy wide) so that I know what options I have to fit.

Outfitting UI

Problems

You cannot re-assign a different suit to a loadout slot and must delete and recreate.
The UI is slow.
Weapons are not easily comparable. They use the same box-design that the ship UI does.
Weapons are not sorted by type, and instead appear to be by acquisition or grade.
Weapon details are shown with bars and not numerical values.

Solutions

Provide a method to swap out the suit for the loadout. If necessary strip weapons.
The UI seems to be looking up stuff every time it moves. This may require some optimizations
Use a table-centric design to allow for easy comparisons.
Sort weapons by type. Put the Launcher with the other launchers, rifles with rifles, etc.
Give raw stats instead of bars. A magazine count in a bar doesn't help set the expectations of what the bar means. The upper end is not defined so it defeats the purpose. Bars are relative measurements, not absolute. Something like Magazine Capacity is very much an absolute value. It's either 2, 3 or 4.

Star-Scream · Jun 7, 2021

Hi, this is my first post here, I have not played ED for many hours but I saw the need of an Outfitting UI update couple of weeks ago and this thread came up so...

I now it is not good looking but it is just a mockup, a mix of things that came to my mind while playing and cool stuff from multiple web sites, also module information is not real... I think that you will get the idea.

Must have...
Drag and drop (for consoles it can be by clicking on a module and then on the one you want to swap, compare, store, etc.)
Sort and filter
No animations
Module information (stats, comparsion with equiped ones)
Modules effect on ship

Outfitting UI mockup

Storage

Module selection details

Module energy management

Ship stats

Thanks for reading!

badibeat · Jun 7, 2021

To get the usability I miss most regarding ships and outfitting, and probably in a very simple and fast way, I'd suggest:

Allow to search for a ship by ID in the Shipyard (please also pasted from the clipboard).
Complete the existing API for third parties to include engineering, experimental effects and value for all modules, whether stored or used on stored ships or the active ship.

These would already luxurious additions, but highly appreciated:

Give modules an ID or show the existing ID and expose it to the API.
Allow searching for modules by ID in the Storage.
Maybe allow searching ships by module ID in the Shipyard.

The missing functionality will be taken care of by existing third party apps in short order.

Even Horizon's UI is not up to the multitudes of module variants you get through engineering, Power Play (It takes takes some 4 weeks for a commander to stock up on a single type), Community Goals etc. Add to this the many load outs you can have per ship.
I found making another build including fully engineering faster and much less frustrating in comparison to repeatedly changing modules on a single ship.
Therefore I ended up having a lot of ships and a lot of modules in the Storage or stored on ships.