Focused Feedback Thread - Outfitting UI in Odyssey

[Zulu Romeo]

I've only tinkered about with outfitting a tiny amount, but I'd also like these to also apply to the Pioneer Store equipment and the Shipyard. Perhaps also Suit Customisation and Holo Me?

1) The three main outfitting menu trees
I'm a little confused as to why there's a Store menu and a Loadout menu for ships. One seems redundant of the other and personally if I want something for my ship I would select the Loadout and decide what goes in what slot - not the other way round where I pick the component and try to squeeze it into something that is unavailable or the wrong size. On the other hand, I love that Storage is now organised in the same format as these, instead of a long and tedious list as before, but it still feels too divorced from the ship itself - something that was even seen before.

Suggestion: combine all of these into a single menu tree based on ship compartments (hard points, utility, core, optional etc.) as before, so that we choose equipment based on the ship slot rather than the other way round. Then, have available equipment listed in the options pane divided into: currently equipped, in storage here or wherever (and availability/cost in time and money), and On Sale here. For all of these, also show the specifications and full mod details on the components side by side, so that we can compare them.

2) The shop display
I don't mind the dots thing - I immediately get that it refers to module class, and in a way is a quick visual representation of how big it is. I would keep this and the class display. However, some things about the display need to change.

Suggestion: firstly, have by default ALL modules available at that station on display to buy or install, even if the equipment is too expensive, too small or big, or in the case of stored equipment it is on another station or in transit. Show us what we need to do to be able to put that thing we want onto our ship, be it pay for transfer, get more money, or use a smaller or bigger model or a different ship. I suggest the hierarchy of ability to install in outfitting be: install now > too big for that slot > too small for that ship > too expensive or stored elsewhere. Let us also customise which unavailable items are shown.

Secondly, please let us show all the information again about the module's strengths and weaknesses, as previously. Show us what the engineering does, allow side by side comparisons between not only what we have and what is stored but also between different things to buy. Also show the effect each module will have on the ship's stats (previously in a 4 page tab across the bottom of the screen).

3) Buying and Selling and Storing and Retrieving
I haven't been inconvenienced by the whole issue of accidentally selling equipment I want to keep instead, but I can understand that many will be. At first it does seem odd but then I remember that I want to keep my module rather than part exchange it, and look for the option to do so.

Suggestions: keep the buying options from previously as Buy Outright and store the old module in Storage, and Part Exchange. For Parts Exchanged, keep them in a holding state to buy back if you change your mind. When leaving Outfitting, have a reminder that these items are still in holding and can be bought back while you're still docked (don't let them expire if you log off) and you can have the option to discard them fully when you exit, under a checkbox lock or an Are You Sure failsafe. When leaving the station with undiscarded modules in this state, have a BIG warning dialogue box pop up, perhaps with one of your Are You REALLY Sure failsafes added, warning you that the sold equipment will be lost forever when you leave the station.

Secondly, make sure that buying, transfer, storage and swap options are still available for all modules on the ship and in various storage areas. That was a good system. Perhaps also incorporate buying to store as an option (something I suspect the Store main menu tree was intended to function as) but in the framework of the unified menu. Perhaps also even transfer to install for stored modules on other stations rather than merely transfer to storing them.

Finally, for all transactions, make sure there is a Big warning for buying modules that could do harm like power plant overload, and lesser warnings for downgrading equipment, and in particular add a checkbox for selling modified modules.

4) Interface glitches - including customisation, Holo Me
The main glitch is the lack of mouse scroll function here - please fix this.

5) Reconciling Holo Me and (flight) suit customisation
Can Helmet On status be moved to Loadout profile edit instead of Holo Me please? Some suit loadouts I prefer to have a helmet on at all times, some I don't except in emergencies such as combat or hostile atmosphere.

That's all for now, any further thoughts I'll add later etc.

Thanks

 

[Ted Striker]

It's as simple as this and doesn't need to be made any clearer:

Revert back to Horizons UI

That's it. It's as simple a suggestion as can be made. It was a great UI, celebrated even. The galaxy map could have used a few improvements but the outfitting UI was easy and efficient.

There was no need to replace it all, and rather than ask how to improve the new UI we should be asking why it was changed in the first place?

BTW, people are loading into Horizons to do outfitting then back to Odyssey when done. That should tell you all you need to know. Revert back to Horizons!

 

[CMDR Charybdis]

Don't hide engineering stats​

The engineering effect on a module is important. Currently it is "hidden" behind the Modifications tab. Extra navigation and clicks are required to view information that should be visible when scrolling through modules.

This change promotes the engineering blueprint/description to be on both tabs.

The effect of changing tab is to only numbers from "marked as engineered" to "engineering change to base stats". Other text remains in the same physical place on the screen.

Summary of changes​

1) Blueprint type and progress promoted to both tabs under the name of the module
2) All stats and text line up, so only the stat numbers change when toggled
3) The engineered flag (grey hexagon) is moved to the right of the stat to tidy up the layout.

 

[BamboozleBallet_]

So I gave it a few days and I've come to the conclusion I don't think this new Outfitting UI needs small or incremental changes, it needs a huge overhaul.

The number one use for outfitting for most of us in the 'late game' isn't buying new modules, but swapping out engineered modules between ships or storage. (Because engineering every module on every ship is a time sink most of us have zero desire to get involved with). This is something that I do quite often in game. Taking modules out of ships and putting them into other ships, or into storage, and installing modules from stored modules needs to be fast, easy and clear. We also need to be able to easily and clearly see which modules are on which ships.

This current Odyssey outfitting UI is so bad I've been moving back into Horizons to outfit my ships, the best immediate fix from my perspective would be to move back to the old UI because it was very functional, I want that functionality and speed to be matched or improved upon or I'm not interested in a new UI.

Making it easy to lose engineered modules was a mind boggling mistake. I have a one of a kind engineered module that used the original engineering system and got a mega 'roll' if I lost that there is no way I can possibly get it back. That obviously needs to be the number one priority fix, but the way you could quickly choose in outfitting whether to replace or install a stored module in a ship or purchase one from the station was so much better in Horizons.

We also need to be able to easily see the engineering and statistical changes on a module at the various stages, when its on another ship, when its in storage, when its on your ship, or when you are selling it (though that needs to be less easy to do, by and large most of us don't want to sell engineered modules).

One thing that could be added as entirely new functionality would be to see which of the modules fit on which ships both if they are in storage or on a different ship. That would enable people to more easily use a ship with a long jump range to engineer modules then swap those modules to another ship. That is something that everyone does (if they are sane) when engineering and making that easier would be helpful to players. So for example its common to have a shield in the biggest optional slot on a ship (if you are doing any form of combat) also life support and sensors can only use the correct size for a ship.

A more simple thing that'd be a nice improvement is giving us more stored module space. 300 modules for example would be nice because swapping out entire weapon sets on the twenty or so ships a lot of us have is a lot of modules.

Thanks for taking this UI issue seriously, its the biggest reason why Elite is 'on the shelf' for me right now.

 

[CMDR Charybdis]

Don't hide engineering stats II​

The stored module stats don't give full information about the module that you are looking at.

This change provides full and detailed information, so when you have 10 engineered thrusters you'll know which one you're transferring

Also some light updates onto the transfer confirm dialog box to provide additional context and sanity checks.

Summary of changes​

1. Added blueprint name, engineering level and experimental effect
2. Place Guardian short description under item name instead of engineering blueprint
3. Add description of experimental effect as flavour text
4. Moved grey engineered hexagon tag to right side for tidier visual layout.
5. Moved yellow engineering tag on stored item up into panel (away from text) to the lower right corner, for a consistent position. This can also be the guardian icon.

 

[Batsu]

TL;DR version: From my experience with the Odyssey outfitting/shipyard UI, I think that rather than trying to salvage a terrible and user-hostile UI, it would be far more productive to scrap the whole shipyard/outfitting UI and revert to Horizons' outfitting/shipyard UI, and then take focused feedback from there. And if you really want to make a new UI, start from scratch in the background and do more focused feedback while you iterate it. Either way, the Odyssey UI is bad, and should go.

My experiences:

I was simply trying to outfit a Python as a core mining ship from my stored modules and modules stored on other ships on my FC, nothing too difficult. Even that simple task was impossible due to Odyssey's awful UI. Trying to do even the most basic outfitting functions with a large number of stored ships and stored modules in Odyssey was so frustrating and incoherent that I could only perform the necessary actions safely in Horizons.

The strangely-worded default option to sell heavily engineered modules (WTH?) made every outfitting decision so fraught with peril that I was unable to even outfit one ship. Finding modules on my stored ships was impossible as well, because now the UI displays less information than the Horizons UI and instead replaces useful information with useless graphics.

I know what my ships look like. I don't need to see an image of it. What I don't know is whether it's the one I have stuck my engineered 6A dirty drives on, or is it the one I have Clean 5Ds on? What guns are on it, and which engineering mods? Instead, I am greeted with useless graphics and more useless information. So it winds up wasting my time, which makes me angry, so I wind up quitting and playing other games.

Others have done a better job of picking apart this terrible UI in greater detail than I could, and I don't see the need to duplicate their efforts beyond what I've already said. But changing the whole design language of outfitting from Horizons was a terrible idea from my POV.

Anyway, if you want to make a better outfitting UI for Odyssey, it would make far more sense to start from a better UI to begin with, and not this mess.

Starting from a bad foundation will always lead to a bad building. Or use whatever metaphor you want, but starting from the Odyssey UI and trying to "fix" it is going to make a lot of players unhappy with the end product, no matter what changes you make to it.

It would make far more sense to go back to the actual, working, Horizons UI and start from there, and get proper, useful feedback to make a serviceable UI for Odyssey.

Note that I don't say "great," because the Horizons UI wasn't great to begin with. It's "okay." It gets the job done. Not flashy, but not optimized, either. Players have given you a lot of feedback on how to improve it over the years, a lot which has been ignored. (I know all of my bookmark input has been, so I've gone back to buying sidewinders everywhere.)

If you want to create a great UI for outfitting for Odyssey, you would have to start from scratch, but a good source of help would be the tons of feedback you've already gotten from CMDRs over the years who have been clamoring for improvements to the game. (I want storage that is coherent and organizable by whatever drop-down stat I want BTW. Storage is a mess.) Also, considering how popular Coriolis is, that would also be a great place to start for a new UI. It's stupid easy to outfit a ship on Coriolis. It should also be stupid easy to outfit a ship in Odyssey.

But since creating a new UI would take months, it would be far easier for now to just start from the Horizons UI, and work on a new UI in the background while remembering to take lots of focused feedback from players so we never have to go through this again.

My 2 credits.

 

[Serbanstein]

My gripes with the outfitting menu are:

• You can only see modules that fit the ship. I want to see all available modules with the incompatible ones redded out.
• Icons are slightly stretched
• You cannot equip stored modules without visiting the dedicated "Stored modules". This makes retrofitting multiple modules a nightmare
• The sell vs store switch is too ambiguous, not to mention it's set on "sell" by default and even sets itself back to "sell" after a while
• While browsing for a particular module to replace something I already have, the module list shows me all the modules of the same type that I have installed, which is useless
• I don't like the grid-and-icon-based display of the modules (e.g. for shields it's x dots, the class letter and the shield logo). I much prefer the Horizons list-and-text-based version which showed the module name, size in numerals (we're not children, we don't need dots) and the class letter to the right of the size, all of this fitting in the list item, without needing to highlight it.
• You cannot see the engineering effects of stored modules and, outside of the storage menu, "cycling the modifications" is fine, especially for double-engineered modules but please add an engineering summary to the base stat page and the blue and red values to the base stats so we know the overall effect without scrolling through each modification.
• The yellow highlight color for equipped modules is a complete eyesore. A checkmark in the corner is enough.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

• I need filters that actually work (Kraits often don't show up as Falcon Delacy ships)
• The ability to sort by distance when looking at transferring ships both at the shipyard and at Inter Astra or whatever it's called on the concourse. Generally good sorting options all round - ships by distance, value, type, class. Modules by distance, value, size/grade, type.
• The ability to see what modules (in the very least hardpoints, seriously) are on ships when I'm browsing them in the shipyard.
• The ability to see how modules are engineered, accurately, including in storage.
• UI needs to recognise that many people have large fleets - over 40 ships, easily, which is the per station limit. Plus a limit of 120 modules in storage (which we complain about being too small, and have to buy more ships as module storage, further increasing the fleet size). UI needs to be able to make large fleets and many stored modules accessible.

Would love a UI interface that prioritises information and accessibility of function rather than looking at the ship model. I know what the ships look like already, there's only so many relevant ones in the game and there certainly won't be any new ones released any time soon for me to oggle at in outfitting - I'll go to livery for that anyway.

Shipyard and outfitting need to be about utility, with an aesthetics that flows from that function. Not about visuals, with no function to back it up.

 

[CMDR Vertigan]

Would love a paperclip guy to appear when I try and swap ship or swap out a cargo rack while still holding cargo. Then ask me if im having trouble with my cargo racks

 

[Lancel]

Improving the flow between fitting and storage would be the main business of improvement.

• When exchanging items, the default checkbox is to SELL rather than STORE. This causes a lot of issues with flows and is quite a scary notion for some, better to have it default to STORE, which can always be remotely sold later.
• There is no clear ability to pull from storage in the Loadout screen to swap a component, instead I have to go to Storage, then equip it to Loadout only to after that process is done find I'm still in the Loadout context, necessitating me to back out of the Loadout context and drill back into Storage to repeat.
• The entire outfitting menu seems to complain a lot when your storage is full, even if you're intending to exchange an equipped item for a stored one. This makes the 120th slot more of an overflow condition rather than legitimate storage.
• Stored engineered items don't make it clear what they actually are, displaying engineered stats but not the names of their modifications.
• There are an awful lot of confirm dialogues, enough to where I think just implementing an undo action or a commit changes with a summary that you can then change would cut down on a lot of clicks.

 

[Krakenheim]

My biggest issues are : its not easy to see what engineering effects you have on your modules, what the engineering effects do (buying a grade 2 suit with "more melee damage), the focus on the shop buy/sell options when outfitting when it should be focuses on the stored modules/store (so that we dont loose MORE engineered stuff) and by the way how the hell we clean modules now ??

 

[Starmegalord]

Change it back to horizons UI.

 

[Rafael]

Greetings Commanders,

Last week we posted a forum thread discussing optimisation and map UI in Odyssey. We'd like to thank you all for your comments and feedback which were gratefully received by the development team. A series of changes to UI based on that feedback can be expected in an upcoming patch alongside other improvements.

Now it's time to turn our attention to the Outfitting UI. We're well aware that this is a hot topic and want to ensure that feedback is gathered accurately and effectively. For each suggestion or piece of feedback, please clearly state the observation and beneath it offer any suggestions you have to improve the experience. Keeping these brief and to the point where possible will also be helpful.

As before, any replies to other comments or off topic/non-constructive posts may be removed to keep the thread as practical and useful as possible. For unrelated discussion, please find or create other threads over in Dangerous Discussion.

O7

Greetings team Frontier o7.

I noticed they drastically changed the ship's equipment screen. But they could look at the Horizons equipment screen as a basis. The new screen is missing equipment information. I need to use Horizons to equip my ships. The Odyssey equipment screen is not clear.

*
Question: Why is there no Ship loadout?

There is a costume loadout in Odyssey.

 

[Montague]

Others here have hit upon all the specific problems I have with the UI, so I will address the situation in general:
The Horizons UI is clunky but the Odyssey UI is confusing and I'm still figuring it out. I fear I may have sold a few of my modules without realizing it.
It takes more mouse clicks to do outfitting in Odyssey than in does in Horizons. Please streamline/simplify it.

 

[Valkyrie]

* Clearly displayed engineering rating and experimental effect on every module without needing to go to other tabs

* Display numbers instead of dots for module and module size for clarity (it's easier to read than count)

* split missions, passengers and community goals into separate buttons on the primary page, unnecessary extra clicks.

 

[Sir Juice]

Better or more information related to equipment statistics.
It's too easy to sell existing modules, removal of toggle switch for default of selling modules.

Other UI:
Please add the percentage display of rank and other progression back onto the information UI (right panel)

 

[Terry Bruge-Hiplo]

I don't have access to the Outfitting UI as I went on an exploration trip, so I'm going from memory here. My main points of contention were:

• I couldn't see much distinction between the Modules Shop and the Loadout sections. It's possible that frustration on my part got in the way of seeing the actual functionality there.
• Navigating to fit a module from storage always dumps you back into the main menu of the Outfitting screen, not back to the section you were in, adding a load of additional click-throughs for every module you want to fit.
• I was okay with the 'dots' representing numbers, but it laboured comprehension somewhat, until I adapted to it. It's fine after a while though.
• Biggest gripe: reinventing the wheel with how a toggle switch (checkbox) works on the module purchase popup.
  • Off/on toggle checkbox switches are ubiquitous in modern UI design, and having the description change for each state really confuses things.
    • Universally: Left = Off/No, Right = On/Yes
    • It gives the impression that the checkbox switch state is actually representing Left = On, Right = Off
    • Consequentially, there's no corresponding colour feedback to indicate which state is selected.
  • Quoting from this articleon the subject:
    • "When adding state descriptors, stick to on/off to match real-world conventions and include both off and on to the left and right side, respectively, of the toggle to avoid confusion. If only one descriptor is present beside a toggle, it can be taken for a toggle label."
    • "...always use a high-contrast color to signal state change."
  • Side note: The toggle switches at the top of the Missions UI, where each faction can be toggled on/off using their pictures, is another example of reinventing the wheel (in a different way) for the same UI control, though I do concede that there's no easy solution to that one
  • Proposed solutions: Either have "store module" and "sell module" either side of the switch, so that toggling it shows which option you're picking, or ditch the switch and go with separate buttons for each action.
• The left-most column where you select the module type (Hardpoints, Core Internals, etc.) wasn't clickable to escape out of the current browsing action and into a different section. I would have liked to have been able to quickly abort the current browsing in favour of going to a different category.
• The ultrawide screen issue again: The bottom section of the Outfitting menu is cropped off on ultrawide. I like that it has tabs, and it's good as it is. I just can't see half of it.
• The lists of available modules felt excessive and I had an expectation to see my stored modules appear in the lists when browsing. I'd rather not see a list of unavailable modules denoted with striped backgrounds (again, a new/unfamiliar convention for conveying a state?). Just show what's available and will fit. If I have one in storage, show that as an option too. Highlight stored modules in a different colour.

 

[CMDR Rusty Dog]

When we go to the ship management screen where we are choosing which ship to switch to... in the 'More Details section, we really need to see the full outfitting on the ship including engineered mods.

Right now it's only showing basic info and how many mods there are.
So if I have 2 Asp Explorers (unnamed) and one has plasmas and the other multicannons, I cannot tell which is which. Nor can I remember all the loadouts of every ship I have so it's up to the game to inform you - like it did in Horizons.

I shouldn't need to actually switch to the ship in order to see what the full loadout is. What if I want to bring a ship from another system only to find it's not the one with the loadout I thought was on it?

Really not sure why this information wasn't on there from the get-go.

 

[MrFaustie]

Re-implement the ability to see loadouts (and RE) in stored ships.

Let us install/uninstall/swap modules without having to change "tabs" like it was before.

Put the sell button somewhere far away! Not in the place most people click by default.

That's my three gripes.

 

[Orvidius]

I find the whole UI a lot more convoluted, with each section switching between a ship-centric view, and a module-centric design. When I reconfigure a ship, usually I'll buy a few new modules, but also equip some stored engineered modules, and maybe take some modules from another ship. Right now there's no easy way to do this, at all. Instead it has to be broken down into independent steps, one at a time, preferably grouped by type (such as emptying several slots first, then filling them with other modules in a separate step).

* Stored modules don't display what engineering mod (and experimental effect) they have applied.

* Viewing stored ships doesn't let you see what they have installed anymore either. Installing something from storage requires going back to out to the top menu from scratch for each one.

* There's no flow from a ship-centric view like before, except when looking for things to remove from the ship, or maybe to buy new modules for empty slots.

* When trying to use the ship load-out for this, only some of the stored modules will show as available, with many types excluded (such as vehicle hangars).

* Replacing a module defaults to selling it, even for engineered modules, and it's very easy to lose something valuable.

I'm sure there's more, but these are the headaches I've run into already, even though I've done very little ship management in Odyssey. I mostly configured my ships in advance of the expansion, but I've also loaded into Horizons a couple of times to quickly do some things more easily there.