Frontier: Can you please define your understanding of "Limited"

[thenickmove]

I normally buy things in a game to support the developers AND to get something nice for myself. However, if I don't 'trust' the developers to treat their customers nicely or to keep pouring their passion into their product, I'm not buying anything, even if a skin or whatever looks nice and the game in question is good. These are just my own little rules for myself.

For example, I've dumped a lot of money on Path of Exile, as I think those are developers that deserve to be supported. They're extremely open to the community about many of the decisions they make etc., and their cashshop is cosmetic stuff only.
I was planning to do the same with this game, as I have no problems spending a fair amount of money on a game/developer I think is 'deserving' (terrible word, not sure if it's the right one). Started with the Finnish flag, and was ready to buy some more, as I felt these devs were also 'trustworthy' and I was happy to give them my money for continued support.

However, as it stands, I won't be buying a single other thing from them anymore. Of course...to them the 20 euro's extra that they could have gotten from me is not much, but reading here there seem to be many people thinking the same, and all these small amounts add up. It's really the 'switch & bait' thing that gets me annoyed. Advertising 'be quick before they're removed from the store', and a couple of months later putting stuff up...for cheaper even.

Feel free to disagree but this is how I feel.

Oh, and I totally get it Titus my friend. Totally get it. You see it all the time in physical stores. You buy something, then pop in a week later and it's on sale. Totally gutted.

It doesn't matter if any of their products are on sale. It's the fact that they brought back supposedly limited stuff back to their shop, and to add insult to injury, reduced the price.

 

[JeffRyan]

They lurch from one PR disaster to the next....

Get it together!

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Obviously PR is still in gamma too, I really hope they get it sorted by launch day.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Next you'll tell me the lifetime expansion pass is on sale for a £5.

A lot of games have "season passes". Going on the recent methods, I'm pretty sure Frontier will sell a "lifetime expansion pass" at some point in the future...

 

[Metamartian]

I for one am glad that the community get the option to purchase skins that maybe they missed out on before for several possible reasons. maybe cashflow problems, on holiday, sick etc.

I myself missed out on the chrome viper and hope that it comes around again sometime. I have the self awareness to buy something If I want it and can afford it. Nobody forced me to buy a wireframe cobra skin but I wanted one and so I paid a tenner for it. I have no issues with it coming back on sale later for less if that's what they decide to do as it gives others the opportunity to own it, that's business life for you. you buy them as you don't want to miss out on the possiblity that they may come round for sale again. but if they do, they do.

I am not about to go on the rampage to Microsoft or Sony as I could now get a xbox one or PS4 for just under £200 less than what I paid for them 1 year ago.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Obviously PR is still in gamma too, I really hope they get it sorted by launch day.

I'd say their PR is actually in Pre-Alpha...

 

[Vandaahl]

I for one am glad that the community get the option to purchase skins that maybe they missed out on before for several possible reasons. maybe cashflow problems, on holiday, sick etc.

I missed the kickstarter. My bad. If I had noticed it earlier, I would have backed it till I got my own station. But I was too late. If I had the option now, I would still spend the amount of money, but I can't, because it would be a stab in the back for the people who jumped the backer adventure, took the risk for a high reward (regardless of this option).

Same goes for the Expansion pass. As a substitute for KS, I took premium beta, because it had a lifetime expansion pass. If you sell things as "exclusive", then they should remain "exclusive" and not be re-introduced, because otherwise the item is not exclusive. If it is not exclusive, then what did I buy?

 

[thenickmove]

A lot of games have "season passes". Going on the recent methods, I'm pretty sure Frontier will sell a "lifetime expansion pass" at some point in the future...

They already did! Just before it went into 'normal' beta they stopped with it

I am not about to go on the rampage to Microsoft or Sony as I could now get a xbox one or PS4 for just under £200 less than what I paid for them 1 year ago.

Microsoft and Sony didn't really advertise their Xbox or PS4 as limited edition did they? So the comparison makes no sense. Of course stuff gets cheaper over time. I think that's not what the people here are complaining about. The discussion is more about making your customers believe you're buying a limited edition thing, which they then start selling again! Of course this is a digital game so in a sense it doesn't affect me at all if other people get to buy it (as opposed to for example limited edition...stamps...that are worth a lot now...can you imagine if they would just reprint one of the most expensive stamps? ), but it does affect the 'trust/reputation' FD is building/breaking.

 

[noodle]

Yes, this strikes me as poor. I'd be a little irked if I'd bought a paint job advertised as "limited edition" only to discover it for sale again at a later date. I'm vaguely remembering something about the boxed sets being available exclusively to backers, but I might be wrong.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

They already did! Just before it went into 'normal' beta they stopped with it



Microsoft and Sony didn't really advertise their Xbox or PS4 as limited edition did they? So the comparison makes no sense. Of course stuff gets cheaper over time. I think that's not what the people here are complaining about. The discussion is more about making your customers believe you're buying a limited edition thing, which they then start selling again! Of course this is a digital game so in a sense it doesn't affect me at all if other people get to buy it (as opposed to for example limited edition...stamps...that are worth a lot now...can you imagine if they would just reprint one of the most expensive stamps? ), but it does affect the 'trust/reputation' FD is building/breaking.

I would like to know then Limited edition meant "It's never going to be on sale again." or "We'll never reduce the price." This, I guess, is the original question. What do you mean by limited. The paint jobs are not back on permanent sale, so strictly speaking, they are still 'Limited'...

To be honest, if they didn't do this promo, I would not have gone and bought the extra PJ that I did...

Hey! I just called it a PJ. My Eagle's got PJs. Wicked!!!

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Ah! Exclusive - That's a different word.

 

[thenickmove]

I would like to know then Limited edition meant "It's never going to be on sale again." or "We'll never reduce the price." .

In this case it's neither of those options apparently!
Also, cool looking ship you got there!

 

[ACenterForAnts]

A good compromise would have been to bring the flag skins out for a different craft. There will be thousands of new players on 16th Dec who are more likely want flags for their Sidewinders.


If the Cobras Wireframe skin makes a reappearance in the store I will be FURIOUSE!!!

 

[chris5281]

This is a very odd thread indeed. It should be clear to everyone in this community by now that Frontier are quite happy to change their minds on previously announced positions if it suits their business. I'm very confused as to why anyone would be interested in a 'statement from the devs' given that well established fact, and arguing over what 'limited' means is rather pointless. Perhaps it meant something different then to now? Who cares - they tried to make limited edition paint jobs work, but it didn't fit with their vision for the game Move on, lock the thread!

I'm not trying to be glib, and I do genuinely feel for people who paid £3 for a skin that is now on sale for £1.50. It's very annoying when that happens. Some of those people will have been on the defending side in the recent big debate, and perhaps this event will help generate a little more empathy for those who are down £100s - £1000s due to a change in position.

The basic issue here is I think due to the fact that we confuse the devs, who are great, with The Company, which is perhaps not so great. We are all here as fans - our motivation is to play a game and have fun. We see the devs who are also fans of the old Elite and we identify with them - we like them, and support them in the difficult decisions they have to make. It's notable however that their motivations are a bit different to ours: they want a great game, yes, but they want to pay their mortgage more. The Company has completely different motivations to the players and the devs - all The Company is interested in is extracting money for us. Look for example at how much of the newsletter is devoted to upselling.

Anyway, the correct attitude to have towards The Company is the same attitude you have to anyone else you are involved in a business relationship with. When my electricity supplier raises my bills I'm annoyed but not surprised - it's just what they do. Similarly if Amazon were to put something on limited sale and a month later drop the price further. Business gonna business. The problem here, and on many other gaming forums, is that people conflate The Company with those great dev guys. In that case, when you find out the The Company sees you as a walking wallet rather than a 'unique snowflake' (to quote TB) it seems personal. Those great guys screwed you over - it's like being betrayed by a friend or a lover rather than a profit making entity doing their thing. Queue pages of online rage. And of course, those who haven't yet felt the icy grip of capitalism around their dangly bits line up to defend The Company which is full of all those great guys.

Moral of the story: the fans are all on the same side. Support your fellow fan! And when The Company does wrong hold their feet to the fire, even if it doesn't personally affect you.

 

[thenickmove]

A good compromise would have been to bring the flag skins out for a different craft. There will be thousands of new players on 16th Dec who are more likely want flags for their Sidewinders.


If the Cobras Wireframe skin makes a reappearance in the store I will be FURIOUSE!!!

Yep, that would have been a good compromise indeed!
Also, love your username (I'm a postdoctoral research who focuses mostly on ants )

 

[Titus Balls]

A good compromise would have been to bring the flag skins out for a different craft. There will be thousands of new players on 16th Dec who are more likely want flags for their Sidewinders.


If the Cobras Wireframe skin makes a reappearance in the store I will be FURIOUSE!!!

Indeed that would also have been entirely acceptable.

There would have been many acceptable options that involved them putting the skins back up. They chose the one unacceptable option.

 

[tucker]

A good compromise would have been to bring the flag skins out for a different craft. There will be thousands of new players on 16th Dec who are more likely want flags for their Sidewinders.


If the Cobras Wireframe skin makes a reappearance in the store I will be FURIOUSE!!!

Yes, I've just seen it on the store page, FREE for everyone forever....



Only joking Bet that made your heart stop.

 

[Titus Balls]

This is a very odd thread indeed. It should be clear to everyone in this community by now that Frontier are quite happy to change their minds on previously announced positions if it suits their business. I'm very confused as to why anyone would be interested in a 'statement from the devs' given that well established fact, and arguing over what 'limited' means is rather pointless. Perhaps it meant something different then to now? Who cares - they tried to make limited edition paint jobs work, but it didn't fit with their vision for the game Move on, lock the thread!

I'm not trying to be glib, and I do genuinely feel for people who paid £3 for a skin that is now on sale for £1.50. It's very annoying when that happens. Some of those people will have been on the defending side in the recent big debate, and perhaps this event will help generate a little more empathy for those who are down £100s - £1000s due to a change in position.

The basic issue here is I think due to the fact that we confuse the devs, who are great, with The Company, which is perhaps not so great. We are all here as fans - our motivation is to play a game and have fun. We see the devs who are also fans of the old Elite and we identify with them - we like them, and support them in the difficult decisions they have to make. It's notable however that their motivations are a bit different to ours: they want a great game, yes, but they want to pay their mortgage more. The Company has completely different motivations to the players and the devs - all The Company is interested in is extracting money for us. Look for example at how much of the newsletter is devoted to upselling.

Anyway, the correct attitude to have towards The Company is the same attitude you have to anyone else you are involved in a business relationship with. When my electricity supplier raises my bills I'm annoyed but not surprised - it's just what they do. Similarly if Amazon were to put something on limited sale and a month later drop the price further. Business gonna business. The problem here, and on many other gaming forums, is that people conflate The Company with those great dev guys. In that case, when you find out the The Company sees you as a walking wallet rather than a 'unique snowflake' (to quote TB) it seems personal. Those great guys screwed you over - it's like being betrayed by a friend or a lover rather than a profit making entity doing their thing. Queue pages of online rage. And of course, those who haven't yet felt the icy grip of capitalism around their dangly bits line up to defend The Company which is full of all those great guys.

Moral of the story: the fans are all on the same side. Support your fellow fan! And when The Company does wrong hold their feet to the fire, even if it doesn't personally affect you.

Don't get me wrong - I had a chance to meet many of them, they do seem like great guys who appreciate their community, and I wish no personal Ill will to them, nor am I demanding a refund or threatening to sue them.

I'm just asking for clarification so going forward do I wait until sale periods to give my money or can I expect that when I spend £10 in the future I'm going get the value of that £10? Or will I have to accept that it would be devalued soon after?

By the way - a year - that would be value! 2 months later, that isn't.

 

[ACenterForAnts]

Yep, that would have been a good compromise indeed!
Also, love your username (I'm a postdoctoral research who focuses mostly on ants )

Cool job, although my username is a reference to the film Zoolander!!

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Yes, I've just seen it on the store page, FREE for everyone forever....



Only joking Bet that made your heart stop.

Grrr! Don't do that!!

 

[tucker]

It isn't the price of it that matters, well it does a little but the fact that I would like to be known as a premium beta backer in game, alpha backers would like it if they had skins to show off which stage they represented and kickstart would like it too...surly.

What if they put in store for £30, Have a frontier star system named after you or name a founder system which was the £3000 and £5000 pledges,,,

It wouldn't be right would it.

 

[Mugshot]

It isn't the price of it that matters, well it does a little but the fact that I would like to be known as a premium beta backer in game, alpha backers would like it if they had skins to show off which stage they represented and kickstart would like it too...surly.

What if they put in store for £30, Have a frontier star system named after you or name a founder system which was the £3000 and £5000 pledges,,,

It wouldn't be right would it.

You realise that anyone could purchase the store items at anytime they are are for sale, there is no link between kickstarter/alpha/beta members and items for sale in the store.

 

[tucker]

You realise that anyone could purchase the store items at anytime they are are for sale, there is no link between kickstarter/alpha/beta members and items for sale in the store.

I do understand that.. It was somewhat of an example... or early backing perks etc..