Frontier: Can you please define your understanding of "Limited"

[Cosmos]

You think offline was bad? They put that up for sale again it'll be civil war in the streets! And the streets of cambridge will run red, the colour of christmas jumper dyes.

So its not enough that desirable content is not available by playing the game; instead, its behind a paywall, but one step further, its never to be seen again? Why? coz all the people who bought one initially think they are special snowflakes? Now if they started giving it away I could understand the anger. I mean are people that selfish to want to deny something that iconic to everyone?

And in any case, when did it become acceptable to be flogging £10 cosmetics in the shop as 'micro' transactions? The price of the game is £40.

 

[JeffRyan]

So its not enough that desirable content is not available by playing the game; instead, its behind a paywall, but one step further, its never to be seen again? Why? coz all the people who bought one initially think they are special snowflakes? Now if they started giving it away I could understand the anger. I mean are people that selfish to want to deny something that iconic to everyone?

And in any case, when did it become acceptable to be flogging £10 cosmetics in the shop as 'micro' transactions? The price of the game is £40.

It's not so much a case of special snowflakes or being selfish, everyone I think has a desire to be unique, having truly limited editions, like the wireframe really limits the number sold, particularly later in the life of the game. So in 2 or 3 years the number of wireframe cobras out there will be truly small. That's why I bought one, to be honest it could have been anything.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

And in any case, when did it become acceptable to be flogging £10 cosmetics in the shop as 'micro' transactions? The price of the game is £40.

That particular skin was a rare, exclusive version - the other skins are $2-3 each.

 

[ACenterForAnts]

Hmm - the flag skins seem to have gone back to £3 (except for Union Flag and Stars and Stripes which are still reduced)

 

[Watcher]

Hmm - the flag skins seem to have gone back to £3 (except for Union Flag and Stars and Stripes which are still reduced)

Curious to know what is going on.
The sale banner is still up but the items mostly aren't reduced. Do we end up with a reduced scale sale, cancelling the sale or letting it run as it was until Monday and being more careful about how sales are run in future. I think the last of those makes most sense at this stage but have to see what happens.
Hmm..

 

[Tacheel]

special snowflakes?

There do seem to be quite a few of these around, must be a sign that winter is coming.
Shame really.

 

[CMDR Charybdis]

I'm only going to put my Aussie Flag on a Viper each Australia Day, by the way. It's a bogan thing (for those familiar with high Antipodean culture).

Is it wrong to want the Oz flag on a viper just because it looks like a cool design? I've got the Union flag as well however the slightly less blingy placement of the national flag is the boon here

And if there's any problems with the... uh... history... then I'll go buy NZ instead

 

[Cosmos]

That particular skin was a rare, exclusive version - the other skins are $2-3 each.

If were gonna have exclusive, it would work much better if it was available via overcoming a tough and rare challenge by playing the game. Not one where people can falsely believe they are a special snowflake just because they happened to have £10 and bought something at a particular time.

Because otherwise its just boils down to in game snobbery. I was watching this on the guardian and something about it reminded me of this topic.

 

[Titus Balls]

I bet the same people who generate silly complaints here then go to StarCitizen page and buy "Limited time" pictures of spacecraft for ridiculous amount of money then come back and pour this nonsense all over this forum.

Never backed Star Citizen, probably never will.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Because otherwise its just boils down to in game snobbery. I was watching this on the guardian and something about it reminded me of this topic.

That would be when the shop crashed two nights ago...

 

[philux]

'Limited' can be based on time or quantity. FD left that undefined and now you know it that it was time-based, which was also beforehand the more likely meaning considering the number of skins the original limited sale comprised (i.e. they would have made most likely made a loss otherwise).

 

[TANDKO]

"Limited" can also mean maximum like Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited but then you can go further with other names

 

[JeffRyan]

Because otherwise its just boils down to in game snobbery.

Indeed. There's a lot of appeal in that, a big part of human nature is showing off. For the record I do hope there will be exclusive INGAME skins and decals as well. And showing them off is snobbery too. And that's okay. In fact the ingame skins and decals via factions and missions will probably be even more satisfying.

Saying that, I love my wireframe cobra!

 

[Mobius]

BEFORE YOU DIVE IN TO THIS THREAD

Please be aware Frontier have responded: here and here. As OP I would appreciate you go check these first before replying

Anyway:

Currently on the store (when it's up) you can buy many skins - this includes the flag skins that were released during Beta 1.

Now I should preface to this, I don't actually care about the skins themselves. None of them appeal to me over the ones I own - but there is a very worrying trend here that your definition of limited...

As noted in Newsletter #40: http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=cbbe7b15e6



Also, within the descriptions of the skins themselves on the store:

These items were LIMITED edition, and at the cost of £3 each - and now they are on sale again at 1/2 the price to anyone who buys the game.



Now as a digital product, of course there is unlimited of these at the time of sale so as far as we were made to be aware from the 14th September, these would no longer be available.

What you are doing is devaluing what your customers have bought on the understanding they would not be available again.

Does this mean one day we might see the Wireframe skin up for sale again at £5, because that was limited edition? I've had a look at the cached page for the Chrome Viper - despite the price I see it's not marked at Limited so I do expect we'll see that again - hopefully not 2 months later (like the Viper pack, or 1 month later like the Hauler pack at 1/2 price)

I should also add, I did buy the gold viper skin - also I might buy some more of the cheaper ones that are not limited. I suppose my gripe is that I can't believe your word here that something that is limited today won't be on sale tomorrow.

going to have to totally agree with you on this. if items are to be sold as a limited then you expect them to be limited in supply, but I think FD are being deceptive on this as they are not limited edition but only saying that they are available for a limited time and as such will more than likely appear in some future sale at half price.

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That particular skin was a rare, exclusive version - the other skins are $2-3 each.

was the wireframe sold as a limited edition or was it sold as a limited time. like the flag skins, I can remember myself.

 

[digitalcommunist]

Buy the skins if you want them. If you don't want them, don't buy them.

It should have no affect on you or how you play the game if you or someone you see in space has a skin, even if its a special snowflake limited skin.

Either way...

[video=youtube;gutCFMc5khY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gutCFMc5khY[/video]

 

[Demosthien]

The definition of "limited edition" is not a new problem, but it is one that has some precedent in other industries (the arts for instance).

"It is an ethical norm (though not law at the time of writing) in the fine art reproduction industry that images which have been used for limited-edition prints will not be used for any other purpose or reprint. This commitment may be reinforced by a statement at the bottom of the print or on a certificate of authenticity. This needs to be clearly addressed when agreeing a contract with a publisher of limited-edition prints. Consider carefully the detrimental effect to your reputation if work published as a limited edition is seen by the public in other forms. You need to feel confident that your contract covers this possible outcome."

https://www.writersandartists.co.uk...sential-information/copyright-law-for-artists

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Of course... There's always someone willing to challenge the "ethical norm".

http://petapixel.com/2012/04/10/what-is-the-definition-of-limited-edition/

 

[nats]

I was surprised to see these country skins back on the site. But they have released the Cobra skins for free so that in my book makes up for it.

 

[PLF]

Hi everyone,

Just managed to get up to speed on this thread.

We just wanted to do a cool deal for people that didn't get the chance to buy the skins last time they were online, but we definitely should have looked more closely at our previous deals before putting this out. We've had a lot of requests since they came down to reinstate them as part of our 50% off deal - nothing malicious was meant by putting this up. This is the nature of sales such as Black Friday - businesses put up products at a reduced rate to give people a chance at snatching up something cool, and get some custom they might not have otherwise.

They'll be coming down on Monday and we have no plans to run the Viper flags again. We're keeping a close eye on what deals have gone out before to avoid any confrontation going forward.

Cheers.

Actually businesses put things on sale to try to grab as much of the holiday cash as they can since the competition is also putting on sales. It a way to survive not about being cool.

 

[PLF]

All items are limited to the maximum number they can sell of that item and will be on sale until they are sold out.

 

[Zenicetus]

I'm completely disenchanted by this too. Aside from anything else the cutoff dates unfairly favour players with disposable income here and now. I'd buy skins with real money if there were no alternatives, but i'm too skint most of the time and by the time i had the dosh the offer's likely to have been closed. Hardly democratic is it? Gameworlds are supposed to be meritocracies, anyway - isn't that the whole point?

It might not be popular to point this out, but anything resembling a flight sim (which this game does) with high system requirements is inherently non-meritocratic. It requires reasonably powerful hardware to run, and people who spend the money on things like high-end HOTAS systems, TrackIR, and the Oculus Rift have some advantages over other players. Compared to what hardware like that costs, a few cosmetic ship skins are bupkis, and give the player no advantage.

The point where this becomes a legitimate complaint, is if the game offered any "pay to win" upgrades in the storefront. Which they're not doing, and I appreciate that. A more highly skilled pilot can still beat me with their combat ability using a mouse and keyboard, even if I do use HOTAS and TrackIR.

And whilst I think about it. 'Available for a limited time only' doesn't mean its never going to be available again. Lets take the Cobra wireframe paint job - took me a week to calm down after that with the main grievance, aside from it being my idea in the first place, was the limited time to buy. Are we really saying that no one else can ever own such an iconic skin? Be nice to see it up for grabs again, say anniversary time next year..

I would probably never buy another ship skin (or the upcoming bobbleheads) if the Wireframe Cobra came up for sale again. And I imagine some others here might feel the same way.

I almost didn't buy it... had to think hard about spending the money that particular week when it wasn't convenient. I made that stretch, because I was led to expect it was a one-time offer during the Anniversary. I would feel completely misled and manipulated if they offer it for sale again. It's a question of whether you can trust the company's marketing or not. Once a customer feels burned, it can be hard to recover that trust (talk to any of the "offliners" here about that).

It's also just bad marketing in general. A company has a better chance of getting sales on "limited edition" products when they're truly limited, and not when the customer is thinking "Oh, I don't have to buy it now, because it will come up again later." It subverts the whole marketing incentive.