Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.

[-=VampyrE=-]

Youdonotreallyread...
That is how interaction with NPCs already work.
Shooty on clean NPC = rep loss and bounty. -> hostile -> no docking + kill on sight
Shooty on wanted NPC = no infraction.

With what i suggest as in flagging,
that would finally work on CMDRs, too.
The enemy state is a state apart from wanted/clean, as shows powerplay.

Right, but i go a step further

 

[Robert Maynard]

That is not the POV of PvP centric players.
What is there for their joy to do the same "grinds",
when they can do the "real deal" a.k.a. PvP instead?
If those players would enjoy PvE BGS manipualtion,
they would do that, and not field their concern with
meaningless PvP.

The game was not designed to specifically reward PvP (over and above basic stuff like bounties or dropped cargo).

Harder to kill a CMDR that fights back, then a NPC.

Maybe yes, maybe no - half of all players are of median combat skill (or below) - and not all players fly combat ships.

The flagging simply is for BGS issues,
it works in solo/PG aswell, if your CMDR has to claim insurance,
the points go to the adversary.

Indeed.

Nobody mentioned automatic prey,
that is just another wee phantom being spun here.
There are a lot of ways to go out of the way of PvP
in open, be it awareness, precaution or simply tactics.

Given that we all "own" Open, to introduce a desirable feature (Faction pledging) and link it to PvP would indeed mean automatic prey - if those players chose to play in the only game mode with an unlimited population - so, not a phantom - an expectation of what would happen - just as pledging to a Power paints a target on players.

Having to avoid the interesting bits of the galaxy to avoid PvP isn't exactly "inclusive" - better to create a mode for the players who eschew PvP....

 

[excalibus]

I think it's easy for FD to disable friendly fire, if they want to.

It's all the other stuff that is hard:

Griefer: I can't shoot you, I'll ram you in stead.
You: FD can disable damage from ramming to.
Griefer: I'll ram you into the toaster rack. I will not even take damage.[yesnod]
You: FD disables transfer of momentum, I will not even move when you hit me.
Griefer: I have parked in front of the letter box, how do you get in or out of the station?
You: I can fly trough you FD has disabled player contact completely.
Grifer: Mind if I hide inside you and shoot a few NPC?
You: I'll be in my private group. See you on the forum.

the counter to your last point... was that players would take direct fire from stations instead of LOS...

Personally I think the better way to do it is the pilots license deal...
Sure there are still a select few edge cases with that, but that is the key, the few edge cases, could easily be reportable and telemetry placed in the client which could give FD information on those edge cases to determine which player was causing the 'grief'

Seeing that as the video shown displays, disabling damage from weapons fire is already there... that is the first step..
Ship ramming, there are a couple of solutions to the issue of no damage and no momentum without resorting to ghosting... in the example of the letterbox / station pad, the loitering system is already in the game, so the station then opens fire on the ship breaching the tresspass system...

Okay you say, but I have requested docking so I can go through the letter box as slow as I like as long as I keep going in and out of the trespass zone, you cannot still get in... easily circumvented by increasing the size of the trespass zone... once the station opens up on the griefer and destroys them, then the other player can enter... and if it was done as a direct damage from station model to the player, that would negate the small ship sitting behind / under the bigger ship... Perhaps there should still be a LOS but allow the LOS to pass through another players ship... this way station guns can still miss fast moving targets but the player hiding behind another player after hitting the station will still take damage without the other player being impacted on...

I also like the idea of the weapons fire damage being 0 BUT the fine / bounty for friendly fire still occuring and all that comes with it, otherwise commanders will still be lazy when it comes to fire control in combat etc... And yes I understand that can open up a can of potential griefing issues... those issues exist in the current open as well and in PG too... but ultimately it is not about making it a totally griefer free environment IMHO, but more that PVP cannot occur...

As has been mentioned there are a few alternative solutions to implementation

 

[Julio Montega]

The game was not designed to specifically reward PvP (over and above basic stuff like bounties or dropped cargo).

Braben himself said, that "Elite is a game with PvP in it,
and it should be rare and meaningful".
I don't see anything on the meaningful sector since release,
do you?

Given that we all "own" Open, to introduce a desirable feature (Faction pledging) and link it to PvP would indeed mean automatic prey - if those players chose to play in the only game mode with an unlimited population - so, not a phantom - an expectation of what would happen - just as pledging to a Power paints a target on players.

No, that feature still as proposed tons of time would be "not visible",
like in flagging you in "shadow" to a faction best suited for your interests,
or a faction close enough, should none be in that very system.
People would assume you are flagged as any one faction,
but as i envisioned only yourself would know, unless you exclaim that openly in local chat.

Your POV deviates strongly from mine, regarding PvP.
What does build your POV? Is the thought of PvP to you all that
scare stories flooding this very forum?
Or do you believe and know there still are PvP people out there,
who check what they kill and hunt?

Having to avoid the interesting bits of the galaxy to avoid PvP isn't exactly "inclusive" - better to create a mode for the players who eschew PvP....

Now what interesting bits are that?
The ever same cgs?
The expanse of space where encounters, like the 'goids are discovered?
I'm interested to learn what your thoughts are.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The expanse of space where encounters, like the 'goids are discovered?
I'm interested to learn what your thoughts are.

i think this is 1 example. what are the chances that that region of space is going to become rather dangerous for anyone in open who does not have a PvP build ship with experience to use it?... and to suggest the answer is "just go somewhere else then, you are not allowed to see the alien space ship" does not seem a good answer to me.

(i am not saying you would say that, but some have essentially said that in this thread)

 

[sewerratuk]

the issues is "People" are not 1 amorphous blob singing from the same hymn sheet, neither are PvEers or PvPers.

I myself loved that it took me 25hrs in my sidewinder to fully A rate it, and then save up for an eagle.

I spent a similar time in my eagle, then a little less in my adder, but was in my cobra for ages. I am ALL for playing the long game in ED I am ALL for the economy being unforgiving and realistic, there would be no 1 week billionaires or zero to anaconda in 24 hrs if i was balancing the game. i am 6 weeks in play time in ED since gamma and still only in a FGS and am fine with that.

I am all for zero tolerence of crime in high sec, and lasting and hard hitting consequences for actions against pilots federation members (they pay are insurance premiums remember so we are actively costing them money when we claim - we only pay the excess)

And i am all for an elite rated FDL being a thing to be terrified off, that if i am on my own, and unless i have a fully pimped ship i am in trouble....

BUT, that said, Elite ships ARE meant to be rare, hell, dangerous ships are not meant to be that common.

all of the above however is possible without any PvP. I have said it before, the problem with humans is, they need to be entertained in a game, and acting in a plausible manner is considered dull by many... where as well programmed AI can do it till the end of time.

for me, the only reason i am playing ED now is for the immersion of "spaceman simulator in 3303". Some of the players playing in ED totally ruin that experience for me.

i could not give a fig about PvP, or the metas and all that.. some of the "PvP" builds i have seen are a complete joke and i would never entertain using them, but if i wanted to fly to one of the hot spots in open, i would feel compelled to.

IF ED had launched with a convincing C&P system i would never have left open, but it didnt and now we have what we have.

some PvPers want conseuqence free arenas where they can blow up each others billion credit ships.. to me this would kill the game completely. how can this be justified in the economy, it would be like me saying i know i will take my Enzo Ferrari to a destruction derby and at the end someone will give me another one to replace it.

I admit it was a very broad brushstroke and not really aimed at lots of folk, just some
I have spent a lot of time in the game doing a lot of different stuff and enjoyed it, so when I see extremists trying to take it one way or the other I'm going to say something to bring it back the other way a bit.
I hope the game won't get to the point where one of the extremists are happy because either way I'm out

 

[Lateralus]

The game was not designed to specifically reward PvP (over and above basic stuff like bounties or dropped cargo).

And this is part of the problem; not rewarding certain PvP activities results in an increase in random ganking.

I suspect a large proportion of the players on GCI would welcome some purpose to their combat, but unfortunately all this game leaves them with is interdicting random players at CG's, unless there is an organised event happening somewhere.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Braben himself said, that "Elite is a game with PvP in it,
and it should be rare and meaningful".
I don't see anything on the meaningful sector since release,
do you?

Nor is it particularly rare....

No, that feature still as proposed tons of time would be "not visible",
like in flagging you in "shadow" to a faction best suited for your interests,
or a faction close enough, should none be in that very system.
People would assume you are flagged as any one faction,
but as i envisioned only yourself would know, unless you exclaim that openly in local chat.

I would have expected that the Faction allegiance would be displayed in the target information - just as it is for players who engage in Powerplay or as it is for NPCs form a particular Faction.

Your POV deviates strongly from mine, regarding PvP.
What does build your POV? Is the thought of PvP to you all that
scare stories flooding this very forum?
Or do you believe and know there still are PvP people out there,
who check what they kill and hunt?

I don't initiate PvP - it holds no draw for me. I have been destroyed several times now by players - so have personal experience of that.

Now what interesting bits are that?
The ever same cgs?
The expanse of space where encounters, like the 'goids are discovered?
I'm interested to learn what your thoughts are.

All of these things - basically the places that some players choose to use as hunting grounds for other players simply because they are known to draw players - a bit like a watering hole in the savannah.

 

[sewerratuk]

The game was not designed to specifically reward PvP (over and above basic stuff like bounties or cargo dropped)

Seriously, why even bother in the first place then? It's basically FD saying to PvPers 'thanks for your money <SFE>' no wonder there is upset.
And before the inevitable 'it wasn't meant that way', blah, blah.. Lots of PvPers bought into it so if that was the case is was indeed FD saying Nope

 

[Robert Maynard]

And this is part of the problem; not rewarding certain PvP activities results in an increase in random ganking.

.... and changing that to reward those activities (after players engaging in random ganking to express their displeasure) could be seen as rewarding poor behaviour - so I doubt that Frontier would do it - as it may encourage poor behaviour to force their hand in future.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Seriously, why even bother in the first place then? It's basically FD saying to PvPers 'thanks for your money <SFE>' no wonder there is upset.
And before the inevitable 'it wasn't meant that way', blah, blah.. Lots of PvPers bought into it so it it was the case is was indeed FD saying Nope

lets be honest.

its not just PvPers that got shafted.. I really like the game but it is not a shadow of the game i was expecting..... certainly not after 2 years of it being out in the wild.

Wings as i expected
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-a-thing-quot-Revised-Wingmen-Elite-Dangerous

crew as i expected
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...na-come-out-dead-”-Ship-Crews-Elite-Dangerous

hell, just look at the whole list of proposals,
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/36-Design-Discussion-Archive

..... PvPers, you may feel short changed, but trust me, its not just you who got smacked with the nerf bat

 

[Lateralus]

.... and changing that to reward those activities (after players engaging in random ganking to express their displeasure) could be seen as rewarding poor behaviour - so I doubt that Frontier would do it - as it may encourage poor behaviour to force their hand in future.

Well isn't that punishing all PvPer's due to the actions of a minority? Lame indeed....

 

[sewerratuk]

lets be honest.

its not just PvPers that got shafted.. I really like the game but it is not a shadow of the game i was expecting..... certainly not after 2 years of it being out in the wild.

Wings as i expected
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-a-thing-quot-Revised-Wingmen-Elite-Dangerous

crew as i expected
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...na-come-out-dead-”-Ship-Crews-Elite-Dangerous

hell, just look at the whole list of proposals,
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/36-Design-Discussion-Archive

..... PvPers, you may feel short changed, but trust me, its not just you who got smacked with the nerf bat

I got double smacked because I like both

 

[Lateralus]

lets be honest.

its not just PvPers that got shafted.. I really like the game but it is not a shadow of the game i was expecting..... certainly not after 2 years of it being out in the wild.

Wings as i expected
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-a-thing-quot-Revised-Wingmen-Elite-Dangerous

crew as i expected
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...na-come-out-dead-”-Ship-Crews-Elite-Dangerous

hell, just look at the whole list of proposals,
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/36-Design-Discussion-Archive

..... PvPers, you may feel short changed, but trust me, its not just you who got smacked with the nerf bat

Dare I say, 10 year plan? *Chuckles in the middle-distance*

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I got double smacked because I like both

and that is why, (and i know i am as guilty as anyone here) it is daft that we are bickering among ourselves and that we should be united in poking Frontier with a big pointy stick & asking for updates on the progress on that stuff, and if "no progress yet" then getting a reason as to why not.

 

[sewerratuk]

.... and changing that to reward those activities (after players engaging in random ganking to express their displeasure) could be seen as rewarding poor behaviour - so I doubt that Frontier would do it - as it may encourage poor behaviour to force their hand in future.

Possibly they may even nerf/reverse nerf stuff because of poor behaviour on the forums.
God forbid that would happen... oh wait

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

i think this is 1 example. what are the chances that that region of space is going to become rather dangerous for anyone in open who does not have a PvP build ship with experience to use it?... and to suggest the answer is "just go somewhere else then, you are not allowed to see the alien space ship" does not seem a good answer to me.

(i am not saying you would say that, but some have essentially said that in this thread)

Just waiting for the inevetible "Git Gud".

Anyone else think of Cletus when they hear that?

 

[Julio Montega]

Nor is it particularly rare....
I would have expected that the Faction allegiance would be displayed in the target information - just as it is for players who engage in Powerplay or as it is for NPCs form a particular Faction.
I don't initiate PvP - it holds no draw for me. I have been destroyed several times now by players - so have personal experience of that.
All of these things - basically the places that some players choose to use as hunting grounds for other players simply because they are known to draw players - a bit like a watering hole in the savannah.

Thanks for the input.
I consider myself a hybrid between both worlds,
delve into fights here and there.
You see the PvP centric people lack stuff to do,
so they migrate to those places and wreak havoc.

Organized PvP events are rare,
they are a distraction, but with the general lack of meaning
of PvP in the game, that is the outcome.

i think this is 1 example. what are the chances that that region of space is going to become rather dangerous for anyone in open who does not have a PvP build ship with experience to use it?... and to suggest the answer is "just go somewhere else then, you are not allowed to see the alien space ship" does not seem a good answer to me.

(i am not saying you would say that, but some have essentially said that in this thread)

What makes them dangerous, is that they become hotspots, by people sharing.
If you have something interesting and share it people are going to flock to it.
When playing in Open the key to success is not to ask others what to do,
but yourself and self-improve

 

[frostypaw]

I got double smacked because I like both

True for many of us! Lots of the ostensibly PvE crowd quite wanted PvP in the rare and meaningful way it was intended - it's the random meaningless stuff that's soured the pudding :/

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well isn't that punishing all PvPer's due to the actions of a minority? Lame indeed....

I said "could" be seen - Frontier might choose to reward PvP in some way - however to do so in a game where PvP is not required in any way might prove challenging.