Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.

[GluttonyFang]

I wouldn't say that the community is fractured solely because of griefers and gankers. Although many people have moved to Solo or Mobius because of such people, I think it's safe to say that the majority or people in Solo and Mobius are there because those options provide an experience more amenable to their desires in terms of gameplay than Open does. Hence why, while a C&P update is imperative and long overdue, I don't think it really increase the size of Open's player base or bring about more community cohesion. Open PvE though may well improve the cohesion of the player base because it it's likely to appeal to many players in both Open, Mobius, and Solo. Hence why I think that the notion that it will fracture the community is erroneous. It may well reduce the population of Open PvP, but ultimately if it leads to more players playing in one mode the the community becomes less fractured, not more.

I'm not sure about that...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-play-more-in-Open?highlight=crime+punishment

 

[excalibus]

Also using wire shark or similar software to IP capture players is a violation of the TOS and EULA. So no, you can't see people connect to instances. Unless you're breaking the rules.

Can you explain that to me, because I was not aware of that actually being part of either the EULA or the TOS... What a user runs on their own PC, as long as it does in no way manipulate the game client or its data (read that memory hacking and file hacking cheat systems) is completely legal - providing it is legal to use the software in your country - no matter the software... 3rd party tools that inspect network packets could conceivably be run from a lap top hooked up to your local network router and inspecting the incoming / outgoing connections etc... without A) any way for a 3rd party to know it was happening and B) without breaching any sort of EULA or TOS if indeed such a clause was part of either as it would not be running on the 'client' computer...

What miffs me most is when people do spread misinformation so if you can back up such a claim do so and show us all where it states in either the EULA or the TOS that we cannot use network monitoring software on our own private networks...

Cheers

Bottom line is PVE only mode would be bad for the game. It would fracture the game further. Möbius would not simply fold into this mode, since PvP is allowed in some instances like CZs, therefore it would be a +1 sum in the mode department. This is a terrible idea. PvE and PvP have survived well together in Open since the beginning. I'm with The Code and have pirated and killed hundreds if not thousands of CMDRs, but I've also: winged up with Harmless noobs in sideys and gotten them in a Viper or Cobra in a couple of hours, bounty hunted in a wing of random CMDRs for the pure joy of it, explored, been saved by the fuel rats twice (thanks guys!) and had countless other positive experiences in Open.

Fdev, don't listen to the "Protective Ursidae" please!! This would only harm the game!

Yes of course, it would fracture the game, lets forget about all those people who WOULD actually use such a mode, let's forget about all those future players who would use such a mode... yes indeed... Sorry, if you cannot tell I am being a bit sarcastic... This argument has been put forward a few times in this thread and as has been explained (ad nauseam) that yes it does add an 'extra' mode, which in reality will see a number (no one knows how many, but it would be a safe assumption, that as the majority of the player base never engage in PVP, that the numbers using such a mode would not be insignificant.

I'm not sure about that...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-play-more-in-Open?highlight=crime+punishment

Interesting POLL, 81 of those would only play in the current open mode if there was some tangible 'bonus' to them beyond the C&P system, along with 178 players who would not play in open even with a C&P system in place, to 228 players who would play in open if a C&P system was in place and >70 with 'other' listed... not really that clear as to the total swing is it GF?

I mean if there is no tangible personal 'bonus' for commanders playing in open with an implemented C&P system then the numbers would not back up your argument that the C&P system would fix it all, would they...

I am in no way suggesting a real, dynamic and fully fleshed out C&P system should not be implemented, indeed it has to happen, it should have happened in 2015 iMHO...

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Note that I put "casual players" in quotation mark to not be confused with casual players.

Suggest you don't do that in future ... avoids confusion.

 

[MarkAusten]

I'm not sure about that...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-play-more-in-Open?highlight=crime+punishment

I could argue that point. For example, ignoring the last two options as being outside the scope of C&P, the first two options effectively say that whatever is done PvP is not an option for the players so 49% against vs 47% for. Don't bother arguing this, by the way, it is just an example of how the poll can be otherwise interpreted due to the somewhat woolly nature of the question and available options, all further complicated by the fact that it was a multiple choice poll and not single choice, hence the totals exceeding 100%.

There are other interpretations of these results as well that suggest different conclusions which you can work out for yourself.

Given the OP it would be very interesting to restate that poll as a single choice poll by with an Open PvE option.

But I'd still hesitate to draw conclusions for reasons that I have stated in other posts.

I doubt we'll ever know.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I would hesitate to call those people "PvE" players, they are "casual players" that don't care about anything outside of their own enjoyment of the game, and that enjoyment involves making the most credits as fast as possible. These players are also the first to get "bored," since they have no interest in depth whatsoever. These are your 5th columners, your combat loggers, and your mindless pewpewers.

Sure, they are customers nevertheless, but I would not call these customers beneficial to the game other than the money they tossed at FD. Sometimes their destructive feedback do more harm than their entry tickets can compensate for.

I would very much doubt that all of the "5th columners, your combat loggers, and your mindless pewpewers" are "casual players" - I expect that some, at least, are players who take the game rather seriously.

 

[Apos]

I would hesitate to call those people "PvE" players, they are "casual players" that don't care about anything outside of their own enjoyment of the game, and that enjoyment involves making the most credits as fast as possible. These players are also the first to get "bored," since they have no interest in depth whatsoever. These are your 5th columners, your combat loggers, and your mindless pewpewers.

Sure, they are customers nevertheless, but I would not call these customers beneficial to the game other than the money they tossed at FD. Sometimes their destructive feedback do more harm than their entry tickets can compensate for.

Well, I agree, even though the term still doesn't cover it fully. Nevertheless, yes, it's "them". And there is no brush that will make an accurate enough stroke to not generalise some people.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Solo = pve mode.

Until kill stealing is removed from open, there is not much reason play there unless looking to gank someone or maybe if you enjoy the chance of being ganked. Other players just ignore you in a best case scenario.

 

[excalibus]

Solo = pve mode.

Until kill stealing is removed from open, there is not much reason play there unless looking to gank someone or maybe if you enjoy the chance of being ganked. Other players just ignore you in a best case scenario.

What the heck has kill stealing got to do with the issue of ganking or the reasons behind asking for an open PVE mode?

Kill stealing is a potential for any mode except solo these days - heck NPC could kill steal at one point in time I have not seen a 100+ page thread on kill stealing yet...

 

[GluttonyFang]

Suggest you don't do that in future ... avoids confusion.

Can't stop people from reading a sentence in a certain way, I'm certain about that.

- - - Updated - - -

I would very much doubt that all of the "5th columners, your combat loggers, and your mindless pewpewers" are "casual players" - I expect that some, at least, are players who take the game rather seriously.

Logical inconsistency here, P->Q != Q->P

- - - Updated - - -

I could argue that point. For example, ignoring the last two options as being outside the scope of C&P, the first two options effectively say that whatever is done PvP is not an option for the players so 49% against vs 47% for. Don't bother arguing this, by the way, it is just an example of how the poll can be otherwise interpreted due to the somewhat woolly nature of the question and available options, all further complicated by the fact that it was a multiple choice poll and not single choice, hence the totals exceeding 100%.

There are other interpretations of these results as well that suggest different conclusions which you can work out for yourself.

Given the OP it would be very interesting to restate that poll as a single choice poll by with an Open PvE option.

But I'd still hesitate to draw conclusions for reasons that I have stated in other posts.

I doubt we'll ever know.

You're reading the reply out of context, it's to challenge the person I replied to and the point he/she made about ineffectiveness of C&P, not the thread at large.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Logical inconsistency here, P->Q != Q->P

The post I quoted seemed to suggest that these "casual players" formed the whole of the subset of the player-base engaging in those activities - if that wasn't your intent then it was worded ambiguously, in my opinion of course.

 

[GluttonyFang]

The post I quoted seemed to suggest that these "casual players" formed the whole of the subset of the player-base engaging in those activities - if that wasn't your intent then it was worded ambiguously, in my opinion of course.

That would be your reading, indeed.

 

[Robert Maynard]

That would be your reading, indeed.

Presumably it would also be my interpretation that led me to think that the last paragraph in the same post was an attempt to discredit the opinions / feedback of some players.

 

[Eymerich]

Solo = pve mode.

Until kill stealing is removed from open, there is not much reason play there unless looking to gank someone or maybe if you enjoy the chance of being ganked. Other players just ignore you in a best case scenario.

Solo != Pve mode

because it lacks the "presence" of ohter players.

If such presence need to be tied to Pvp only to explain itself well: it seems quite debatable to me.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Presumably it would also be my interpretation that led me to think that the last paragraph in the same post was an attempt to discredit the opinions / feedback of some players.

No doubt that would be your reading again, with no responsibility on the bearer to deliver a coherant and clear message.

Made me think of:

 

[Shaamaan]

What the heck has kill stealing got to do with the issue of ganking or the reasons behind asking for an open PVE mode?

Kill stealing is a potential for any mode except solo these days - heck NPC could kill steal at one point in time I have not seen a 100+ page thread on kill stealing yet...

Kill stealing has existed in MMOs in one for or another for a long, long time. I think only Guild Wars 2 has a system where kill stealing doesn't exist. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm actually interested if there are other games out there with "anti-KS" mechanics and how those mechanics work.

 

[Shaamaan]

Bottom line is PVE only mode would be bad for the game. It would fracture the game further. Möbius would not simply fold into this mode, since PvP is allowed in some instances like CZs, therefore it would be a +1 sum in the mode department.

I'm pretty sure PvP in Mobius (in those few cases) happens rarely, if at all. Besides, it's not like anyone's tied to a mode, people can freely switch whenever they please. That said, I for one, would gladly start picking Open PvE as the default mode, rather than the current Solo.

Also, Fuel Rats would be very happy for the change, of that I'm 100% certain.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

What the heck has kill stealing got to do with the issue of ganking or the reasons behind asking for an open PVE mode?

Because if a player isn't going to gank you then the only reason he exists is to 1) fly past you in dock, or 2) steal your kills in community goals. I realized that other players getting their stuff done were actually the worst part of open, not the gankers. Open mode only offers benefits FOR gankers, and it's the only reason I would go there.

And if you're the social type of player that enjoys talking to randoms and making friends with them, that's done better in a private group.

Solo = pve.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Because if a player isn't going to gank you then the only reason he exists is to 1) fly past you in dock, or 2) steal your kills in community goals. I realized that other players getting their stuff done were actually the worst part of open, not the gankers. Open mode only offers benefits FOR gankers, and it's the only reason I would go there.

And if you're the social type of player that enjoys talking to randoms and making friends with them, that's done better in a private group.

Solo = pve.

Abject nonsense.

As I keep explaining - all modes are PvE, they're just varying degrees of client connectivity, but all connectivity modes are playing in the one game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

As I keep explaining - all modes are PvE, they're just varying degrees of client connectivity, but all connectivity modes are playing in the one game.

All modes may have PvE - but only two permit direct PvP.

 

[kalniel]

Kill stealing has existed in MMOs in one for or another for a long, long time. I think only Guild Wars 2 has a system where kill stealing doesn't exist. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm actually interested if there are other games out there with "anti-KS" mechanics and how those mechanics work.

The simple mechanic is that you give everything to everyone, so it's not so much kill-stealing as jumping on someone's bandwagon. While it can seem cheap, there's very little practical downside aside from slightly faster progression (people hanging out in CZs getting bounties for assisting NPC kills is an example). In our NWN persistent world we had a custom XP model that tailed off the XP you got if you were too far in level from the other players killing the boss or whatever, so generally if someone jumped in then at most they'd get the same, but in practise they'd get less because the assumption was that most people were playing with others around the same level as themselves.