Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.

[Vorxian]

If Vegans had their way, the majority of domesticated farm animals would go extinct because they are unable to survive in the wild.

Vegans think they know better.

However, I think this is an apt comparison, because the same moral authority that vegans seem to consider themselves certainly has been apparent here as well.

Nothing wrong with it, just don't come asking for dedicated services in places where they already serve salads.

My dearest sister is a vegan.. I don't mind her indulging in her beliefs, she can sit at the dinner table, and scoff at everyone else enjoying their 10oz. I sit there and give as good as I get, in fact once I handed her some rabbit feed and said.. I'll stop eating my steak, if you eat this rabbit food! Ahhh sibling pokery at it's finest. The parents simply remain neutral.. although I can see dad trying to hold back a chuckle

Annnyway.. it's all fun banter. She'd no more be daring enough to tell me I'm wrong as I'd never outright tell her she's wrong. She has values, and I have always been taught and grown up in a day and age where you respect others values, no matter how much you may find them odd or strange. Ofc I'm close to her, she's my little sister.. ok not so little now! but I respect her a lot and it's just banter.

Very much like you guys here. I respect you all, and I quite enjoy the time I have debating these things.

Vegan or not.. PvP or PvE... If you like something, it's perfectly fine. Sometimes I may be on the other side of the fence, and I may like something else. Ultimately we're enjoying the same game, from different angles. Each to their own and each to blaze their own trail... as the saying goes. Do what you love and let others do what they love

 

[askavir]

If Vegans had their way, the majority of domesticated farm animals would go extinct because they are unable to survive in the wild.

Vegans think they know better.

Domesticated farm animals aren't exactly a natural species, are they?

That's the same as saying "If we couldn't torture lab rats in labs, lab rats would go extinct"... "Thanks us, tortured lab rats, thank us! You owe us your painful, tortured, miserable lives!".

ps: I'm not vegan, but I ain't blind either.

 

[Andovar]

At the risk of taking a forum beatdown because I haven't closely followed all 130 pages, I have to ask, how would Open PvE work from a gameplay perspective?

If you shoot at another CMDR, is it as simple as having the weapons do no damage? How would that be explained lore-wise? Would seem really silly if someone's hull just magically absorbed PA's, rails, and bullets.

Also, how do you stop another CMDR?
Example: A CMDR is in the nav beacon of your home system and is blowing up authority vessels because (insert BGS reason here). You want to stop him because those authority vessels are your allies, and you don't want your system state going into lockdown. What do you do? Other than asking nicely on comms "Please stop", you're helpless to do anything to stop them.

 

[frostypaw]

Mad Mike - wasn't aimed at you at all sorry for the friendly fire!

 

[askavir]

At the risk of taking a forum beatdown because I haven't closely followed all 130 pages, I have to ask, how would Open PvE work from a gameplay perspective?

If you shoot at another CMDR, is it as simple as having the weapons do no damage? How would that be explained lore-wise? Would seem really silly if someone's hull just magically absorbed PA's, rails, and bullets.

Imagine they are all using a special Pilots Federation version of Smart Rounds, in the game since 2.1.

Also, how do you stop another CMDR?
Example: A CMDR is in the nav beacon of your home system and is blowing up authority vessels because (insert BGS reason here). You want to stop him because those authority vessels are your allies, and you don't want your system state going into lockdown. What do you do? Other than asking nicely on comms "Please stop", you're helpless to do anything to stop them.

Same way you stop him if he is blowing all those authority vessels in solo: you can't.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Mad Mike - wasn't aimed at you at all sorry for the friendly fire!

eh? sorry i missed that... now you got me curious.. what did you say that i need to rage at

(no worries btw its all good, even if you did happen to disagree with some crap i spouted )

 

[Vorxian]

At the risk of taking a forum beatdown because I haven't closely followed all 130 pages, I have to ask, how would Open PvE work from a gameplay perspective?

If you shoot at another CMDR, is it as simple as having the weapons do no damage? How would that be explained lore-wise? Would seem really silly if someone's hull just magically absorbed PA's, rails, and bullets.

Also, how do you stop another CMDR?
Example: A CMDR is in the nav beacon of your home system and is blowing up authority vessels because (insert BGS reason here). You want to stop him because those authority vessels are your allies, and you don't want your system state going into lockdown. What do you do? Other than asking nicely on comms "Please stop", you're helpless to do anything to stop them.

haha no worries.

In short, we were discussing various ways to unite the Mobius community. Ethically they put PvE first and respect that some folks in the ED community prefer a more positive player to player experience.. eg Fuel Rats.. They're there to provide a service to explorers (et al) that find themselves in trouble and need someone to refuel them to help them back on their way. Ops like this tend to be a turkey shoot and easy pray, where really all they wish is to help. Mobius appreciates that and tries to as best as can be tried to provide an ethos where direct pew pew is not provisioned.

I think wholly an expanded mobius group provisioned by a dedicated server mode (call it anything you like.. OPEN PvE, MOBIUS OPEN.. PvE galore!) makes a valid request for the 35k +/- players enjoying the mobius philosophy. Shame the group is divided by group size limitations. The issue will only get worse as time goes by.

A side effect would be your example in that, if you wanted to role play system auth being an ally, then not much you can really do to stop one using them as target practice. I guess OPEN would be the valid direct confrontation mode.

Most of the recent tens of pages has been around how this proposal will kill open. In reality all it serves to do is implement a PvE mode where PvE groups can unite and play together, and be given the tools for the mode to uphold its philosophies and policies.

We're all decent people here at heart

 

[Vorxian]

If you shoot at another CMDR, is it as simple as having the weapons do no damage? How would that be explained lore-wise? Would seem really silly if someone's hull just magically absorbed PA's, rails, and bullets.

lol yep I was already blasted in about 6 posts suggesting some form of mode 'Geneva Convention'.. I don't wish to run the risk of another 5 pages of derailment

 

[Ian Skippy]

At the risk of taking a forum beatdown because I haven't closely followed all 130 pages, I have to ask, how would Open PvE work from a gameplay perspective?

If you shoot at another CMDR, is it as simple as having the weapons do no damage? How would that be explained lore-wise? Would seem really silly if someone's hull just magically absorbed PA's, rails, and bullets.

Also, how do you stop another CMDR?
Example: A CMDR is in the nav beacon of your home system and is blowing up authority vessels because (insert BGS reason here). You want to stop him because those authority vessels are your allies, and you don't want your system state going into lockdown. What do you do? Other than asking nicely on comms "Please stop", you're helpless to do anything to stop them.

Thats basically what David Braben said. You have to disable so much, from weapons to collissions, that makes no sense at all and to quote him "would break the game". But who cares about what David Braben says, when he doesnt say what people want to hear. And I guess immersion is relative: waiting for a ship to arrive=immersive, godmode versus other players=also immersive.

 

[Deadspin]

At the risk of sounding like a diehard PvP supporter:

The reason an Open PvE would kill regular Open has it's roots inside of the fact that people will always take the easiest route. That route, in this case, being the one that prevents them from being harmed by another player. While I can understand the gameplay value in that, the "world" of Elite that we now inhabit is not one that is supposed to be played without risk, which is why solo/PG are secondary to Open where FDevs efforts are concerned. It's also why FDev has hinted at pursuing a better C&P / Karma system over just relenting to the calls for an Open PvE mode to play in. FDev wants there to be player interaction, good and bad, or at least it seems that way currently.

Besides, once we have an alien threat worth fighting whether it be the thargoids or some new menace we have yet to see, pending Frontier does it right and makes the incentive for hunting aliens higher than hunting humans, the pvp issues with open will die off quite a bit (not completely).

And Mobius numbers aren't, or rather, shouldn't be taken as a concrete value in determining the amount of people who'd rather have Open PvE. 35k is roughly the same amount of people who participated in the ship transfer poll that Frontier had. Unless Frontier gives us some numbers so that we can divide up the million or so copies of the game that was sold into inactive/regular user/Mobius user categories, there's no real way to say that anybody represents the majority of anything.

35k < 1,000,000. It's a tiny minority, in fact.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Same way you stop him if he is blowing all those authority vessels in solo: you can't.

Difference being that in Solo you can pretend it happened elsewhere, or some other time. In Open PvE it would be very un-immersive. Which is no problem for many, and if so more power to them, but its a bit silly to see people who are known for raging against unimmersive stuff (think ship transfer for example, where 'deciding how others play' was clearly okay in that situation for some reason) are now completely okay with brutally butchering immersion on the altar of a griefer-free mode. Its just not very consistent from some people in this discussion.

 

[Deadspin]

Difference being that in Solo you can pretend it happened elsewhere, or some other time. In Open PvE it would be very un-immersive. Which is no problem for many, and if so more power to them, but its a bit silly to see people who are known for raging against unimmersive stuff (think ship transfer for example, where 'deciding how others play' was clearly okay in that situation for some reason) are now completely okay with brutally butchering immersion on the altar of a griefer-free mode. Its just not very consistent from some people in this discussion.

I tried spreading some +1's around before coming back to you but it still won't let me give you anymore.

Here's a notional +1 for you, good sir.

 

[thirstyfish]

At the risk of sounding like a diehard PvP supporter:

The reason an Open PvE would kill regular Open has it's roots inside of the fact that people will always take the easiest route. That route, in this case, being the one that prevents them from being harmed by another player. While I can understand the gameplay value in that, the "world" of Elite that we now inhabit is not one that is supposed to be played without risk, which is why solo/PG are secondary to Open where FDevs efforts are concerned. It's also why FDev has hinted at pursuing a better C&P / Karma system over just relenting to the calls for an Open PvE mode to play in. FDev wants there to be player interaction, good and bad, or at least it seems that way currently.

Besides, once we have an alien threat worth fighting whether it be the thargoids or some new menace we have yet to see, pending Frontier does it right and makes the incentive for hunting aliens higher than hunting humans, the pvp issues with open will die off quite a bit (not completely).

And Mobius numbers aren't, or rather, shouldn't be taken as a concrete value in determining the amount of people who'd rather have Open PvE. 35k is roughly the same amount of people who participated in the ship transfer poll that Frontier had. Unless Frontier gives us some numbers so that we can divide up the million or so copies of the game that was sold into inactive/regular user/Mobius user categories, there's no real way to say that anybody represents the majority of anything.

35k < 1,000,000. It's a tiny minority, in fact.

I seem to recall someone at Fdev stating here on the forums that the majority of ED players count as PvE.

 

[Deadspin]

We all have to PvE at some point. So does the person who enjoys PvE content in open and never joins a PG get counted as one of those seeking an Open PvE only mode?

Generic statements are generic. I PvE 95% of the time and spend 99.9% of my time in Open, primarily using PG and solo to board flip when missions are fail to update.

Do I, as a primarily PvE player, want an Open PvE mode? Nope.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I seem to recall someone at Fdev stating here on the forums that the majority of ED players count as PvE.

Again (will probably be ignored because sloganeering is so much easier and fun): Open is not PvP mode. I am a PvE player. I'd taken Open over Open PvE any day of the week. Open is intended to be a mode where people meet other cmdrs, can play coop, and where they will be rarely attacked by other cmdrs, either for obvious reasons or reasons unknown. As someone with 1700+ hours in Open, that is exactly how Open turned out to be. Which is what I wanted, as a PvE person. There are many, many PvE players, and I am sure they outweigh the pure PvP players by a huge margin. It has zero to do with PvE mode though, thats just a connection people make because they personally want Open PvE and drumming up imaginary support from silent majorities is apparantly a thing around here.

 

[thirstyfish]

Again (will probably be ignored because sloganeering is so much easier and fun): Open is not PvP mode. I am a PvE player. I'd taken Open over Open PvE any day of the week. Open is intended to be a mode where people meet other cmdrs, can play coop, and where they will be rarely attacked by other cmdrs, either for obvious reasons or reasons unknown. As someone with 1700+ hours in Open, that is exactly how Open turned out to be. Which is what I wanted, as a PvE person. There are many, many PvE players, and I am sure they outweigh the pure PvP players by a huge margin. It has zero to do with PvE mode though, thats just a connection people make because they personally want Open PvE and drumming up imaginary support from silent majorities is apparantly a thing around here.

try telling that to SDC and other gank groups.

 

[Ian Skippy]

try telling that to SDC and other gank groups.

What do you mean? Just saying "Boogyman!" is not an argument AFAIK.

 

[Shaamaan]

I'm back! I know you all missed me!

I don't think anyone wishing to unify Mobius into an unlimited OPEN mode dedicated to the values that make Mobius work, are oblivious.

All we're saying is that obviously Mobius works. The values work. The ethics work.

Vegans LOVE vegetables! Largely what you're saying is that Vegans have it wrong, and therefore should throw in a bit of veal in all that delicious salad.

Apos, let Vegans be Vegans.

As a meat-lover and a PvE player... I TAKE OFFENCE AT THAT!

At the risk of taking a forum beatdown because I haven't closely followed all 130 pages, I have to ask, how would Open PvE work from a gameplay perspective?

If you shoot at another CMDR, is it as simple as having the weapons do no damage? How would that be explained lore-wise? Would seem really silly if someone's hull just magically absorbed PA's, rails, and bullets.

Also, how do you stop another CMDR?
Example: A CMDR is in the nav beacon of your home system and is blowing up authority vessels because (insert BGS reason here). You want to stop him because those authority vessels are your allies, and you don't want your system state going into lockdown. What do you do? Other than asking nicely on comms "Please stop", you're helpless to do anything to stop them.

There are a number of options (implementation wise):
- weapon damage can simply be 0 when used against another CMDR (the code is already in the game - take a look at Friend or Foe lasers)
- collision damage can be mitigated by either phasing through players (this is ugly, but is very easy to implement and will solve most issues), reduced collision damage to 0 (between players - there's already code which is used to determine who is the speeding pilot near ports which could be reused with some small tweaking) or reduced colission damage with inertia dampening (to prevent players ramming other players into walls)

Lore-wise? You migts as well ask why no one in Mobius isn't attacking each other. Anyway, I'm sure one can make up a reasoanble excuse. "All weapons purchased by pilots of the Pilots Federation use special FoF killswitches preventing friendly fire" or "All ships sold to pilots who are part of the Pilots Federation are outfitted with special ineria dampening FSD drives which prevent deadly colissions".

Finally, when it comes to the BGS - the BGS doesn't really belong to anyone. No minor faction can really be claimed by any one person or group. You can pretend it's yours, but it really isn't. So the question becomes a bit non-sensical once you realize this.

The BGS wasn't made to be "gamed". It was made to provide a simulation of a real world happening in the background. That's why its so often wrapped in mystery (no one bar FD really knows how the BGS works), and also why the game doesn't permit any larger groups / guilds / coprorations (maximum limit is the number of pilots in a single wing).

 

[Deadspin]

try telling that to SDC and other gank groups.

Telling what, exactly?

That a group of 10-15 players has collectively brought over 30,000 players to their knees by blowing up a few spaceships?

I think they'd enjoy that, actually.

 

[Shaamaan]

At the risk of sounding like a diehard PvP supporter:

The reason an Open PvE would kill regular Open has it's roots inside of the fact that people will always take the easiest route. That route, in this case, being the one that prevents them from being harmed by another player. While I can understand the gameplay value in that, the "world" of Elite that we now inhabit is not one that is supposed to be played without risk, which is why solo/PG are secondary to Open where FDevs efforts are concerned. It's also why FDev has hinted at pursuing a better C&P / Karma system over just relenting to the calls for an Open PvE mode to play in. FDev wants there to be player interaction, good and bad, or at least it seems that way currently

Not... really. We ALREADY have the solo mode, so by that argument SOLO should be the death of open.