Frontier's release plan is genius

[Viajero]

As I pointed out, your response misses an entire section of the discussion.

The fact that they charged for something they labeled as an Alpha, the fact that the release is being done without a Beta, the fact that they declared release before the "Alpha" was completed, and, most importantly, the fact that the corporation's fiscal year end is 11 days after release, all lend themselves to the statement.

To be honest I prefer not to get bogged down in the semantics part of the discussion, but be my guest. I much rather prefer dwell in the actual results of FDEV actions and track record, or lack thereof.

All they have to do regarding refunds is to hold them until the First of June and they get to claim them on the fiscal reporting.

Cash is required in both this and next fiscal years most likely. Min maxing accounting can only help so much to support a product to actually work out. If the product is not fundamentally and structurally sound in the first place, no ammount of min maxing accounting will help it in the end (some exceptions out there of course).

But hey, be that as it may, as mentioned EDO pre orders are still probably but a tiny fraction of the total copies FDEV needs to break even and or expecting to sell. A big chunk of it also needs to occur in the next fiscal year anyways. EDO still needs to be reasonably good for cash to be available for "grab" both now and later in the year.

 

[Murfelton]

All they have to do regarding refunds is to hold them until the First of June and they get to claim them on the fiscal reporting.

Nope, that would be accounting fraud.

Income is calculated on an accrued basis. The revenue would be reversed, and they would need to have a corresponding reserve for refunds that would show up as a liability versus the cash on year end balance sheet. And it is unlikely that they would have even received the cash by year end, it would be more likely to show up on the balance sheet as a smaller accounts receivable.

 

[Chrystoph]

@Viajero - well written, unrelated to what I was trying to prove, but well written.

 

[Riverside]

Of course a company grabbing cash for alpha access would NEVER mislabel a beta as a release to repeat the cash grab.

What's the actual problem with that? As a customer the alternative to early access is to wait longer (for those that have a choice)

 

[Ian Skippy]

What's the actual problem with that? As a customer the alternative to early access is to wait longer (for those that have a choice)

Sakashiro and such never bothered to come up with a coherent answer here. Their issue seems not so much with that they want to wait longer before playing EDO (they can wait however long they want no matter what FD does). Their issue, as so often, seems to be that other people enjoy
themselves when they do not.

So EDO should be delayed until they themselves are ready to play. Nobody else should play it before that, and sure as heck they should never enjoy themselves. And if not than it is all a 'cashgrab' and whatever else. Well boohoo to that.

 

[Sakashiro]

Sakashiro and such never bothered to come up with a coherent answer here.

Nonsense.

I've said many times that I appreciate FDev's decision not to touch Horizons until the new client is ready for prime time. Because the last time I saw Odyssey, it was nowhere near release quality. And I don't believe in miracles.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Betas tend to be for testing stuff, right?

So players would be encouraged to 'go crazy' with doing stuff they may not normally do, because it's a Beta, and there's no risk to their CMDR save in any shape or form, because anything else would be rather stupid, right?

So when the Beta is over, player accounts will be reset to... what exactly actually?

@Sakashiro am still hoping to get an answer on the above if you don't mind.

 

[Montgomery Dog]

Not really. Its just the usual "members of the current midlife-crisis generation put all their faith in something related to their childhood, struggle to deal with reality when it doesnt turn out to magically transform their lives back to the simple joys of being a child."

They expected too much from a computer game, for all the wrong reasons, and cannot let go.

You've posted this sentiment more than once.

You seem quite angry with your father.

 

[amigacooke]

Not really. Its just the usual "members of the current midlife-crisis generation put all their faith in something related to their childhood, struggle to deal with reality when it doesnt turn out to magically transform their lives back to the simple joys of being a child."

They expected too much from a computer game, for all the wrong reasons, and cannot let go.

Personally I'm expecting Frontier to get Elite Dangerous to match up to their trailed features of the KickStarter. They generally seem to be ambling in that direction.

I don't really want to go back to my Acorn Electron thanks.

 

[Murfelton]

What's the actual problem with that? As a customer the alternative to early access is to wait longer (for those that have a choice)

The actual answer was that Shakashiro spammed the forums claiming that games only use public betas, and effectively that closed betas were impossible. I pointed out that closed betas are used by many games.

Rather than admit being incorrect, S. used last week’s announcement to claim what is obviously a release is “really” a public beta.

 

[Riverside]

Sakashiro and such never bothered to come up with a coherent answer here.

Perhaps they are blindsided by all the passive aggressive posts defending a long overdue yet still rushed, mediocre DLC?

The amount of hate in this thread is disgraceful, and I'm not just talking about the posters that are complaining.

 

[Sakashiro]

@Sakashiro am still hoping to get an answer on the above if you don't mind.

You keep harping on the idea that betas must end with a wipe. Whoever told you so was wrong.

 

[Chrystoph]

So EDO should be delayed until they themselves are ready to play. Nobody else should play it before that, and sure as heck they should never enjoy themselves. And if not than it is all a 'cashgrab' and whatever else. Well boohoo to that.

This sounds like a truism - When all else fails, lower your standards.

Also known as, pay for Biowaste, get Biowaste.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

You keep harping on the idea that betas must end with a wipe. Whoever told you so was wrong.

Not a wipe, but a copy of the production environment and that includes save games. Because doing testing on the live version would be madness, wouldn't it?

But even if FDev were mad, wouldn't it make sense then for them to tell players that they shouldn't do anything crazy with their CMDRs (as one would normally expect during a Beta)? Or is this some "deep dev" secret 4D chess that's going on here? Frontier are misleading their playerbase (well, the one that bought Odyssey at least)?

So if we then assume that FDev just want players to play the game as they normally would (with all the risks to the save game that entails), why not simply release the game on the 19th, and monitor the situation, then patch the live game where necessary?

Ah but that's exactly what they're doing. You don't need a Beta for that.

Your mental gymnastics (to the point that it almost feels like trolling) all in all are impressive I give you that. Weak answer though, I was hoping for something more fleshed out other than "no u wrong".

 

[StanleyDunkan]

 

[Ian Skippy]

Perhaps they are blindsided by all the passive aggressive posts defending a long overdue yet still rushed, mediocre DLC?

The amount of hate in this thread is disgraceful, and I'm not just talking about the posters that are complaining.

Hatred?

Maybe that is the issue here: people failing to grasp what we are taking about, which is a dlc to a computer game. Like it, play it. Don't like it, do something else with your time. It's all good. Framing things in terms of 'hate' is weird. As is all the other daft hyperbole hete.

 

[Factabulous]

Your mental gymnastics (to the point that it almost feels like trolling) all in all are impressive I give you that. Weak answer though, I was hoping for something more fleshed out other than "no u wrong"

You can't get a 100 page thread out of reasoned argument, but "no u wrong" does it easily.

All you need to do is take something axiomatic about how fdev make software and disagree with it by pointing to general descriptions from other companies. Works every time.

 

[Sakashiro]

You can't get a 100 page thread out of reasoned argument, but "no u wrong" does it easily.

All you need to do is take something axiomatic about how fdev make software and disagree with it by pointing to general descriptions from other companies. Works every time.

OK, let's recap:

I say there will be bugs because it's a beta.

You say there will be bugs because MUH FDEV.

So we don't seem to disagree on the premise. I explained that I call it a beta because there has been no meaningful beta preceding this "release". Murfelton disagrees and keeps talking about internal testing, yet fails to provide details. How many testers were involved? How long did they test? He doesn't know.

In a few days, I will find out if all the bugs I encountered during the alpha have been fixed. If any of them make it into this "release", I'll let you know.

 

[Murfelton]

OK, let's recap:

I say there will be bugs because it's a beta.

You say there will be bugs because MUH FDEV.

So we don't seem to disagree on the premise. I explained that I call it a beta because there has been no meaningful beta preceding this "release". Murfelton disagrees and keeps talking about internal testing, yet fails to provide details. How many testers were involved? How long did they test? He doesn't know.

In a few days, I will find out if all the bugs I encountered during the alpha have been fixed. If any of them make it into this "release", I'll let you know.

• How many developers? Are you saying the developer was lying that when she said there was an “army” (apparently her words, as I saw quoted) of internal testers?
• How long? Since the alpha was in a fairly stable state, it had to start before the the public alpha. Unless FDev decided to give everyone a vacation, testing would have continued for that entire period, until whatever the release lockdown time is.
• However, ”release” is defined by the developer announcing the “release.” I am unware of any exceptions. Other than forum cranks, nobody will refer to Odyssey after May 19 as a “beta.”
• Ah yes, those magical hidden bugs that only you know about, and will announce after initial bug reports come in.

You were utterly, completely delusionally wrong about the testing process, and you are grasping at straws to pretend you were right all along.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Sakashiro and such never bothered to come up with a coherent answer here. Their issue seems not so much with that they want to wait longer before playing EDO (they can wait however long they want no matter what FD does). Their issue, as so often, seems to be that other people enjoy
themselves when they do not.

So EDO should be delayed until they themselves are ready to play. Nobody else should play it before that, and sure as heck they should never enjoy themselves. And if not than it is all a 'cashgrab' and whatever else. Well boohoo to that.

I think the problem is rather that ODY was announced to be a rather complete DLC compared to Horizons which featured a release of features in stages. Now it doesn't look like a completed release and instead it is an early access with likely fixes down the road. Pretty similar in the end for the customer and the whole schmank around beta, schmeta and alpha is just an attempt at muddying the water.