Frustrated with pirate AI, fear mechanics broken?

CMDR Hagglebeard · Jul 8, 2015

So, I'm in the Bhumijaban system. It's a system with a HIRES, ~2.3k pop and low-security.

I went to the HIRES and attacked a pair of sidewinders guarding an Adder, so I can steal the Adder's palladium. I get it to drop, and then for the next five minutes I'm under constant attack from random pirates, getting my cargo hatch attacked by limpets, and my hull crushed, by PIRATES. I'm a bloody pirate! I had at least a 5,000 credit bounty, cargo scanner, hatch breaker, a hold full of STOLEN cargo, and police attacking me? Why would they shoot me? Then, as soon as I killed the last one, the police reinforcements came endlessly, including an ANACONDA. The system doesn't even have a bloody starport, only an outpost, and where would they even get that sort of firepower!?

EDIT: Alright, I was a slight bit overzeaous, it's fine for pirates to attack each other, but if you read through the thread you'll find the problem with my encounter.

Rubbernuke · Jul 8, 2015

No honour among thieves, they all want that booty. When you wasted them, the police were interested in the large debris clouds appearing,plus the disorder.

It's the equivalent of Saturday night outside a pub.

Ryder35 · Jul 8, 2015

Pirates are not nice people, if you are not in their gang and are on their turf taking their booty they will not be happy. At least that is how it should be... the reality is probably that pirates just attack any pc on sight, bit like a lot of the "so called" PvP pirates!

DjordjeDtW · Jul 8, 2015

I'm sorry for that... you must be aware of situation, how thing's are going here.

First, you must be Allied with pirate fraction of that System. You don't steel from him.
If you neutral, and Pirate scan you and found something good. You become instant his target.
If you neutral, and Steal from Pirate - All his fraction is hostile and against you.

You saw that on hard way.

CMDR Hagglebeard · Jul 8, 2015

DjordjeDtW said:
I'm sorry for that... you must be aware of situation, how thing's are going here.

First, you must be Allied with pirate fraction of that System. You don't steel from him.
If you neutral, and Pirate scan you and found something good. You become instant his target.
If you neutral, and Steal from Pirate - All his fraction is hostile and against you.

You saw that on hard way.

But pirates are also supposed to fear those who are stronger than them, this was implemented in 1.3. If i have multiple murder bounties, a hold full of valuable stolen cargo, and pirate equipment, wouldn't i seem like a formidable target and thus they would leave me alone? A wing of 12 didn't attack me, many lone pirates in Eagles and Cobras did, and I fly a battle ASP. Unless they were in a large wing working together, game mechanics say that they should've been scared off. I think I may post that as a bug report.

Lastly, i did not steal from any pirates, I stole from innocent civilians.

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Ryder35 said:
Pirates are not nice people, if you are not in their gang and are on their turf taking their booty they will not be happy. At least that is how it should be... the reality is probably that pirates just attack any pc on sight, bit like a lot of the "so called" PvP pirates!

Their fear mechanics didn't kick in, I think I'll post that as a bug.

Bomba Luigi · Jul 8, 2015

Well, they wanted to pirate you. It seems pirates do that from time to time.

CMDR Hagglebeard · Jul 8, 2015

Bomba Luigi said:
Well, they wanted to pirate you. It seems pirates do that from time to time.

The fear mechanics implemented in 1.3 had no effect. It's a bug.

DjordjeDtW · Jul 8, 2015

But pirates are also supposed to fear those who are stronger than them, this was implemented in 1.3. If i have multiple murder bounties, a hold full of valuable stolen cargo, and pirate equipment, wouldn't i seem like a formidable target and thus they would leave me alone? A wing of 12 didn't attack me, many lone pirates in Eagles and Cobras did, and I fly a battle ASP. Unless they were in a large wing working together, game mechanics say that they should've been scared off. I think I may post that as a bug report.

Lastly, i did not steal from any pirates, I stole from innocent civilians.

Okay. Few hours ago, Competent Cobra with two Adder's scanned me, then they attacked me. Why this guy attack Dangerous Python with Deadly weapon asset, strong shields and armor?

They will be always remembered as Three heroes - or fool's.

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Addon: I have no Cargo. I have no Cargo hard-point

Ian Skippy · Jul 8, 2015

CMDR Hagglebeard said:
I'm a bloody pirate! I had at least a 5,000 credit bounty, cargo scanner, hatch breaker, a hold full of STOLEN cargo, and police attacking me? Why would they shoot me?

None of this is even remotely relevant other than your hold full of [whatever] stuff. You had stuff, they are pirates. The math is not that hard. Having a 5k bounty is nothing. I consider myself to be a good guy yet had over half a million in outstanding bounties at some point. When I see a cmdr with a 5k bounty I dont immediately think of them as hardened criminals...

CMDR Hagglebeard said:
For about 4t of palladium liberated, I got to be attacked by at least 12 pirates, 5 security ships and left on 18% hull. I'm not happy at all. many lone pirates in Eagles and Cobras did, and I fly a battle ASP. Unless they were in a large wing working together, game mechanics say that they should've been scared off.

Considering they almost got you I'd say their attempt was brave but not insane. You can say it is a bug, but you could also accept that it may be a bit daft to rob someone with so many bystanders. Espescially when these bystanders are of pretty low reputation...

DjordjeDtW · Jul 8, 2015

Also, i haved this situation, something different.
A bunch of pirates - ten maybe more attack T9 trader. All as one. Concentrated fire.
They avoided me.

I waited for backup. The cavalry has arrived and frag Festival began.

Samosa · Jul 8, 2015

CMDR Hagglebeard said:
The fear mechanics implemented in 1.3 had no effect. It's a bug.

Impossible. Immerse harder.

CMDR Hagglebeard · Jul 8, 2015

sleutelbos said:
Considering they almost got you I'd say their attempt was brave but not insane. You can say it is a bug, but you could also accept that it may be a bit daft to rob someone with so many bystanders. Espescially when these bystanders are of pretty low reputation...

Yes, but that's besides the point. These individual pirates had no way of communicating, no planning, they are each their own entity, and as such fear mechanics should be separate for all of them. The fact that not a single backed off is a problem with code.

None of this is even remotely relevant. You had stuff, they are pirates. The math is not that hard.

So a sidewinder pirate should attack an Elite Anaconda? It's the same thing on a different scale, here. The problem with tiny NPCs attacking targets way out of their league was fixed in 1.3, and now it's broken again. Simple.

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Samosa said:
Impossible. Immerse harder.

Lol. Here's a gif of what the forum has turned into:

Samosa · Jul 8, 2015

CMDR Hagglebeard said:
Lol. Here's a gif of what the forum has turned into:

You're not wrong!

I swear click "Cancel" far more often than "Post Quick Reply". Must... exercise... control...

Zhang · Jul 8, 2015

CMDR Hagglebeard said:
But pirates are also supposed to fear those who are stronger than them, ...

Wut? Not all, some. Not all. Some take it as a challenge, let's try see wut the big guy is made off. Secondly, you're in their turf, doesn't matter if your stronger or whatever, you're in their turf you can't just all over the grass. The fear mechanics don't work that way, not in RES.

Lastly, i did not steal from any pirates, I stole from innocent civilians.

You stole from them. You're in their turf. Those civilians are theirs to farm. You jumped in and stole from them.

If you had worked your way into their good graces first, become part of their gang, they'd not bother you. Or at least be on friendly terms with them, then when you pirate in their turf and rob the civilians there, they'd turn a blind eye.

Working as intended. It's not a bug.
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Mr_Blastman · Jul 8, 2015

What is hilarious, if not disturbing, is how the police get a hard on for you, the player, the second they see you wanted and ignore all the other atrocities happening in the system. They'll literally chase you forever until you frameshift out.

But that's okay. It gives me great pleasure when I get those kill authority missions.

CMDR Hagglebeard · Jul 8, 2015

Zhang said:
Wut? Not all, some. Not all. Some take it as a challenge, let's try see wut the big guy is made off. Secondly, you're in their turf, doesn't matter if your stronger or whatever, you're in their turf you can't just all over the grass. The fear mechanics don't work that way, not in RES.

So if I'm in a gang's territory and one of their Sidewinders spots me, he'll kamikaze into me? Give his life? No, they'd regroup and return as a wing to attack me.

See, in my instance, it wasn't an organized wing there to kick me off their turf. It was a crowd of lone NPCs there to actually pirate me. The setting is irrelevant, and it's obvious that the devs did not put this into code, this applies to all area, with any amount of NPCs. The NPCs had no way of knowing that they had backup, that they were a team to take me down, they were all suicidal.

Think in terms of code, not in terms of logic, because NPCs aren't sentient.

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Mr_Blastman said:
What is hilarious, if not disturbing, is how the police get a hard on for you, the player, the second they see you wanted and ignore all the other atrocities happening in the system. They'll literally chase you forever until you frameshift out.

But that's okay. It gives me great pleasure when I get those kill authority missions.

I enjoy those too, but with 1.3 all of my favorites require Elite ranks far higher than what's necessary.

Makya · Jul 8, 2015

CMDR Hagglebeard said:
The fear mechanics implemented in 1.3 had no effect. It's a bug.

Fear mechanic? Hardly! I've been interdicted in my well-armed Conda more than once by small ships - usually Couriers. I'm not the combative type so I usually fly away the first time. But if the same ship does it again, it gets vaporized. Two nights ago I got jumped as I entered a system by a deadly, wanted Anaconda. Now that was enough to trigger my fear mechanic. ;-)

CMDR Hagglebeard · Jul 8, 2015

Makya said:
Fear mechanic? Hardly! I've been interdicted in my well-armed Conda more than once by small ships - usually Couriers. I'm not the combative type so I usually fly away the first time. But if the same ship does it again, it gets vaporized. Two nights ago I got jumped as I entered a system by a deadly, wanted Anaconda. Now that was enough to trigger my fear mechanic. ;-)

Since when? 1.3.06? 1.3.07? In 1.3.00 it worked fine.

bendover · Jul 8, 2015

Pirates are cowards and thieves, they should behave as such, they would only attack if they think they can win and get some reward from it.

CMDR Hagglebeard · Jul 8, 2015

bendover said:
Pirates are cowards and thieves, they should behave as such, they would only attack if they think they can win and get some reward from it.

I agree with this, as a pirate/coward + thief