FSS - my opinion

Faded Glory

Faded Glory
marx said:
Despite such claims from a few people, I've yet to see any proof that any planets' signal ranges overlap. But if you do have any proof, please do share it, it would be good to know.

As for not knowing for sure, and needing "superman eyesight": that's a first I heard. Say, what's your resolution, your screen size, and what distance do you sit from it? Have you had your eyesight (visual acuity) measured? (I've known people who thought they had good sight, but after they went to a doctor where it was actually measured, it turned out that they needed glasses.) You might need to adjust where you sit to see better.
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Eh. There's no overlap. Once you center your tuning dial on a signal it is definitive what the body is. As I said before, determining exactly what a body is in either takes a small amount of time and 'extra effort'.

Honestly, I play in VR, supposedly the worst way to use the FSS, and I had no problems.

Edit - And for me at least, determining if traditionally valuable bodies (ELW, AW, WW) were present was pretty easy as their location on the spectrum is pretty obvious, and usually totally empty. :)
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
marx said:
Despite such claims from a few people, I've yet to see any proof that any planets' signal ranges overlap. But if you do have any proof, please do share it, it would be good to know.

As for not knowing for sure, and needing "superman eyesight": that's a first I heard. Say, what's your resolution, your screen size, and what distance do you sit from it? Have you had your eyesight (visual acuity) measured? (I've known people who thought they had good sight, but after they went to a doctor where it was actually measured, it turned out that they needed glasses.) You might need to adjust where you sit to see better.
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I play in VR. And yes they do overlap, you can see that very easily when you use the slider.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Faded Glory said:
Well do it then, neither the ADS nor the FSS preclude you from spending days investigating a system - although the FSS would certainly cut the scanning time down. :)

Or... Are you taling about how long it takes you to discover what's in system? If so, then I can't really help you, because the FSS is really very, very fast.
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Unfortunately, there isn't that much to find. I suspect the only time that will happen is when we get the full set of atmospheric planets.
 

marx

marx
Max Factor said:
I play in VR. And yes they do overlap, you can see that very easily when you use the slider.
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Sure, when you move it around and place it on the borders. But do you have any proof of a planet that was in the wrong category? For example, an ELW where you set the slider exactly on the signal, and it said Rocky Ice Worlds?
Also, have you seen Qohen Leth's reference image? I think you probably have, just asking to make sure. (Seems like there's a minor error there with HRGGs' arrows.)

Also, I forgot that you might use VR then. In that case, headset and settings can matter quite a lot. I tried it on a Lenovo Explorer and a Valve Index, and with bad settings on the Explorer, it was really quite difficult to accurately read small things. Better settings helped, but then, that headset has a reputation for being pretty decent at this, better than, say, a Rift. (I did try other headsets, but as they weren't mine, I couldn't try Elite in them.)
 
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-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
marx said:
Sure, when you move it around and place it on the borders. But do you have any proof of a planet that was in the wrong category? For example, an ELW where you set the slider exactly on the signal, and it said Rocky Ice Worlds?
Also, have you seen Qohen Leth's reference image? I think you probably have, just asking to make sure. (Seems like there's a minor error there with HRGGs' arrows.)

Also, I forgot that you might use VR then. In that case, headset and settings can matter quite a lot. I tried it on a Lenovo Explorer and a Valve Index, and with bad settings on the Explorer, it was really quite difficult to accurately read small things. Better settings helped, but then, that headset has a reputation for being pretty decent at this, better than, say, a Rift. (I did try other headsets, but as they weren't mine, I couldn't try Elite in them.)
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I never said they were in the wrong category.
 

marx

marx
Max Factor said:
I never said they were in the wrong category.
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You said the ranges overlap, which would imply signals going into a wrong category as well. So, if we're splitting hairs now, can you show us any proof where the planet's actual signal was in two categories at once, and thus its type could be mistaken? That would be good to see, because if it can happen, it might be worth it to pay better attention.
But I've yet to see proof that planet signals can fall right on the border, where the FSS's text transitions from one category to another.
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
@marx,

First, thank you for doing the math. I did read it, and I appreciate both the time it took to do and to write it. The only thing I think you overlooked that isn’t open to interpretation is that you forgot to account for the FSD warmup. This is a twenty second period of time that, thanks to the artificial limitations imposed on FSS use by Frontier, where you can’t multi-task like you could in the ADS era.

Before Covid-19, I would’ve had the time to break it down and reply point by point, but to be quite blunt, grocery retail is considered to be part of “essential services.” I’ve been pulling 50 hour work weeks, and I don't want to sacrifice time to game to give it the reply it deserves.

Second, one of the advantages of being forced to step away from a forum conversation for several hours, is that it gives you the opportunity to reconsider if you really want to go down that particular rabbit hole. So instead I’m going to say this:

I’m sorry.

I’m sorry that Frontier chose to sacrifice explorers like you, when they opened up the galaxy to explorers like me.

Stay healthy, stay safe, and here’s hoping that Frontier remembered to include exploration in their New Era.

This is Inga Stevenson, Commander of Krait Carsar’s Ghost, en route to Colonia via the top of the Scutum-Centaurus arm, signing off.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
marx said:
You said the ranges overlap, which would imply signals going into a wrong category as well. So, if we're splitting hairs now, can you show us any proof where the planet's actual signal was in two categories at once, and thus its type could be mistaken? That would be good to see, because if it can happen, it might be worth it to pay better attention.
But I've yet to see proof that planet signals can fall right on the border, where the FSS's text transitions from one category to another.
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Sigh. I have not said that. How many times do I need say it.
 

marx

marx
Darkfyre99 said:
First, thank you for doing the math. I did read it, and I appreciate both the time it took to do and to write it. The only thing I think you overlooked that isn’t open to interpretation is that you forgot to account for the FSD warmup. This is a twenty second period of time that, thanks to the artificial limitations imposed on FSS use by Frontier, where you can’t multi-task like you could in the ADS era.
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True, I didn't account for that, since most people I know didn't use it - but that doesn't change that it could be used. A minor difference is that it was 15 seconds, not 20: once the 5 seconds countdown started, you were booted from the system map.
So instead of 79.2 seconds, it's 64.2 seconds - still thrice the time spent than after the FSS.

Anyway, if that's the end then, thank you for remaining civil, and taking the time to raise points to support your arguments. Take care, best of luck and be seeing you!
 

marx

marx
marx said:
You said the ranges overlap, [...]
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Max Factor said:
Sigh. I have not said that.
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Here you go:
marx said:
Despite such claims from a few people, I've yet to see any proof that any planets' signal ranges overlap.
Click to expand...
In direct reply to this, you wrote:
Max Factor said:
And yes they do overlap, [...]
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Anyway, I was hoping you'd have something new (to me, at least) to show here, but I guess not. For my part, I don't wish to partake in rapid-firing one-liners.
 

Sysmon

Sysmon
Speaking of using the FSS for interesting orbital configurations: I found a body orbiting the secondary and tertiary star in a system, looking very close in the FSS screen. Closer inspection revealed a 21-day orbit, so I wandered over there for some pretty pictures, duly posted in the Screenies thread.

These are from VR, using the Oculus Touch which runs 1280x768 or something similar fair low res. There, ELWs and rocky ice planets can have a bit of overlap on the spectrogram.

:D S
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
Sysmon said:
Speaking of using the FSS for interesting orbital configurations: I found a body orbiting the secondary and tertiary star in a system, looking very close in the FSS screen. Closer inspection revealed a 21-day orbit, so I wandered over there for some pretty pictures, duly posted in the Screenies thread.
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Don't tease, link!
 

Faded Glory

Faded Glory
Sysmon said:
These are from VR, using the Oculus Touch which runs 1280x768 or something similar fair low res. There, ELWs and rocky ice planets can have a bit of overlap on the spectrogram.

:D S
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I think there is some misunderstanding with the wording.

Overlap implies that it's possible for an ELW body to be identified as a RIW or vice versa. This is not the case, in VR or anywhere else.

The two body types are next to each other on the spectrum, and in the event that you don't center your tuner on the signal, it's possible that you will identify it incorrectly.

It was also possible to incorrectly identify an ELW as a WW or even a HMC body in the system map. In both systems, it is / was worth checking a signal / body to make sure it is what you think it is, but once you have done that, then the body will be what you identified it as. :) Checking in either system takes a little time.

Of course, there were occasions when an ELW stood out in the system map and there was no uncertainty, and that is also the case in the energy spectrum. :)
 

Sysmon

Sysmon
Faded Glory said:
I think there is some misunderstanding with the wording.

Overlap implies that it's possible for an ELW body to be identified as a RIW or vice versa. This is not the case, in VR or anywhere else.

The two body types are next to each other on the spectrum, and in the event that you don't center your tuner on the signal, it's possible that you will identify it incorrectly.

It was also possible to incorrectly identify an ELW as a WW or even a HMC body in the system map. In both systems, it is / was worth checking a signal / body to make sure it is what you think it is, but once you have done that, then the body will be what you identified it as. :) Checking in either system takes a little time.

Of course, there were occasions when an ELW stood out in the system map and there was no uncertainty, and that is also the case in the energy spectrum. :)
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Yeah when we talk about overlap, it is when moving the frequency indicator to the respective peak. A hasty person might then say "no ELW, just another rocky ice planet" (although the terrain on those can be joys to behold) and move on without actually focussing on the planet.

I remember the days of squinting at the screen to discern whether a body was an HMC or a particularly vapour-rich ELW or WW.

:D S
 
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