FSS vs. ADS – and Alternative or Additional Options for Compelling Gameplay

[Faded Glory]

If you don't scan the system you'll never know if what you want is there.

Of course you do. You have used it haven't you?

You know very well whether there are ELW, WW, AW - you know exactly what type of bodies are in the system from the spectrum before you ever scan anything with the FSS.

Like I said, come back to me when FD remove the spectrum then tell players searching for stellar forge anomalies that they have all the information they need from the FSS.

I don't get the problem with the system map. People groaned for years about wanting an orrery and they have one now along with it. Why would FDEV remove that ?, given how important some of the same people groaning about the FSS spent years saying it was.

There is no problem with the system map. That's why some people would like it to be available to them.

(Did someone ask for the orrery to be removed?)

 

[Stigbob]

Right. To recap then: you said the FSS shows you everything. When asked about the overview of orbital hierarchies, you correctly said that you need to call up the system map to view them. Which isn't part of the FSS then, so the FSS doesn't show you everything.

Wrong, you just misunderstood the context.

 

[marx]

Like I said, come back to me when FD remove the spectrum then tell players searching for stellar forge anomalies that they have all the information they need from the FSS.

One can even try that little experiment on their own. The software solution is to overlay the FSS spectrum with a black rectangle; the hardware solution is to tape over that part of your screen

But nah, I don't expect Frontier to ever do that. The trend is the other way around: to make body scanning easier.
Here's a little thought experiment. Suppose Frontier did the logical next step, and extended the current system-wide autoscanning to bodies as well, not just stars. This would likely upset a good number of people. However, let's say they also reworked how finding POIs works: for example, the system would only tell you which bodies have POIs, not what kind and how many. To find that out, you'd have to move and tune the FSS over a surface map of the body. Then you'd know what kinds of POIs there are and how many, and you'd have to do the usual DSS "shoot the planet" minigame to find out where they are. Then Frontier would rework the rewards, so you'd get much less credits for the auto-scanned bodies, and much more for visiting and scanning (composition scanner) the POIs.
Would people still be upset with such a system, or would it actually be better?

Wrong, you just misunderstood the context.

So where was I wrong then? In that you said that the FSS shows you everything? More specifically, "No functionality was lost the FSS offers everything it did and more."
Yet as you yourself said, it doesn't give you the orbital hierarchies, and not only do you need to scan everything for that, but you also need to exit the FSS and call up the system map for it. In the old ADS system, you didn't need to scan bodies (which required flying up to them) to get the orbital hierarchies, so that functionality is lost.

As for whether I misunderstood the context, I think I'll ask the others. Do you think I misunderstood it? If so, how?

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

I like the tinted skybox it adds different character to different systems and makes the game feel more varied. Great addition to the game.

You can check what the signals are without travelling at all, that's how the FSS works. Are you another rage quitter repeating some inaccurate cobblers you read somewhere but can't fact check for yourself ?.

Rather than just ranting why not give it a try, presumably you do own the game.

I'm not ranting, I'm honestly asking you. Each time I try to scan one blip further than 100kls I get what's in the video below. If it's not broken then how do you fix it, genius?

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdaz_EyPkOI

 

[Faded Glory]

One can even try that little experiment on their own. The software solution is to overlay the FSS spectrum with a black rectangle; the hardware solution is to tape over that part of your screen

But nah, I don't expect Frontier to ever do that. The trend is the other way around: to make body scanning easier.

Yeah, I'm not suggesting that FD would ever do that, simply pointing out that people aren't comparing apples to apples. The FSS is fine for traditional rewards based exploration and that's good, but anyone claiming the ADS system reveal is somehow easier is IMO being disingenuous.

Here's a little thought experiment. Suppose Frontier did the logical next step, and extended the current system-wide autoscanning to bodies as well, not just stars. This would likely upset a good number of people. However, let's say they also reworked how finding POIs works: for example, the system would only tell you which bodies have POIs, not what kind and how many. To find that out, you'd have to move and tune the FSS over a surface map of the body. Then you'd know what kinds of POIs there are and how many, and you'd have to do the usual DSS "shoot the planet" minigame to find out where they are. Then Frontier would rework the rewards, so you'd get much less credits for the auto-scanned bodies, and much more for visiting and scanning (composition scanner) the POIs.
Would people still be upset with such a system, or would it actually be better?

It would be going against what FD are trying to do, make the game less of a time sink.

As I said in my other post, from a gameplay perspective the FSS honk, being able to see immediately if there's something traditionally valuable so only needing to scan if you know there's something there, and that scan indicating that there's something on the body 'worth' flying to it to investigate and once there being able to find it is all good (and logical).

For players looking for stuff that doesn't fall into that category and that is thus not indicated before needing to engage in the gameplay is not so good. Apples for apples.

 

[Stigbob]

I'm not ranting, I'm honestly asking you. Each time I try to scan one blip further than 100kls I get what's in the video below. If it's not broken then how do you fix it, genius?

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdaz_EyPkOI

I couldn't care less, its working for me.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

I couldn't care less, its working for me.

You sure about that? Since when did you even try to scan a distant subsystem? I think you're full of it.

 

[Stigbob]

So where was I wrong then? In that you said that the FSS shows you everything? More specifically, "No functionality was lost the FSS offers everything it did and more."
Yet as you yourself said, it doesn't give you the orbital hierarchies, and not only do you need to scan everything for that, but you also need to exit the FSS and call up the system map for it. In the old ADS system, you didn't need to scan bodies (which required flying up to them) to get the orbital hierarchies, so that functionality is lost.

As for whether I misunderstood the context, I think I'll ask the others. Do you think I misunderstood it? If so, how?

If you want to argue about the definition of "everything" based on you not understanding the context you'll need to do it on your own.

 

[Stigbob]

You sure about that? Since when did you even try to scan a distant subsystem? I think you're full of it.

I don't care about that either.

 

[marx]

If you want to argue about the definition of "everything" based on you not understanding the context you'll need to do it on your own.

No, seriously, tell me please where and how I was wrong, what context did I miss that would turn things around.

You said "the FSS offers everything [the ADS] did and more.", on the topic of the FSS removing functionality that the ADS used to have. (While the post's main point, which you replied to, was that the ADS and FSS aren't mutually exclusive and could coexist.) I and others have told you that as one example, you can't see the orbital hierarchies in the FSS interface. The ADS offered this functionality without having to scan every body. The FSS doesn't offer that: that functionality was removed, and now you have to scan every body, then leave the FSS (as you still can't see the hierarchy there) and call up the system map. Which means your original statement was false. Where and how am I wrong on this?

We could also move on to some other missing information, but this one was the easiest and the one for which I had the best images to illustrate the point with.

 

[Stigbob]

No, seriously, tell me please where and how I was wrong, what context did I miss that would turn things around.

You said "the FSS offers everything [the ADS] did and more.", on the topic of the FSS removing functionality that the ADS used to have. (While the post's main point, which you replied to, was that the ADS and FSS aren't mutually exclusive and could coexist.) I and others have told you that as one example, you can't see the orbital hierarchies in the FSS interface. The ADS offered this functionality without having to scan every body. The FSS doesn't offer that: that functionality was removed, and now you have to scan every body, then leave the FSS (as you still can't see the hierarchy there) and call up the system map. Which means your original statement was false. Where and how am I wrong on this?

We could also move on to some other missing information, but this one was the easiest and the one for which I had the best images to illustrate the point with.

No functionality was removed it was added with the FSS.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Sadly, the name alone isn't sufficient to tell the entire orbital hierarchy. Like you said, you have to get through the minigame if you want that information.

It kind is is you use the presence of orbit lines and a local zoom group. But im stretching its sub optimal to useless for this purpose. If anything id like to show that i've really to tried to make this thing work every time sandbox leads me to exploration.

and the whole system scanning gameplay is not nearly fun enough to do hundreds and thousands of times.

Takes about three goes, not hundreds. More or less depending on how soon your sample includes a system with 50+ bodies.

Maybe its a symptom of not playing the game themselves, and instead designing and looking at blind metrics and only white knight discussion environments. They actually took themselves seriously and went, yep, its only about credits, lets just make the quickest path to earth like worlds we can. That's so backwards anyway noone goes exploring for credits they added much better gold rushes in the game. Why haven't they made combat a gold rush instead.. that's a much more sore point for credit whiners. I mean after the first (two) billion who cares?

 

[[VR] Merkir]

As for whether I misunderstood the context, I think I'll ask the others. Do you think I misunderstood it? If so, how?

You didn't misunderstand the context at all. And btw, when a troll uses a one-liner to tell you you're wrong, you can safely assume he's wrong and that he knows it.

The troll in this case is doing you a great service in allowing you (and others) to clearly and rationally state your views. You should keep him engaged as long as possible.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

You didn't misunderstand the context at all. And btw, when a troll uses a one-liner to tell you you're wrong, you can safely assume he's wrong and that he knows it.

The troll in this case is doing you a great service in allowing you (and others) to clearly and rationally state your views. You should keep him engaged as long as possible.

Yeah i've come to the conclusion that Max Factor and Stigbob are the same person, and they both are the strongest anti fss people out of all of us. Especially Max. He doesn't even convince himself sometimes.

Only slightly cooky alternative facts there.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

It wouldn't stop me. It would just make the game worse for me. There are a number of things which I find wrong with the game and which do not make sense, which effect the level of immersion into the game, which is needed for every game you play. Everytime you get an in-game logic fail it effects that a bit more. Galactic wide telepresence is one, which is easy to ignore. Knowing that the things I want to discover myself have already been discovered helps kill that gameplay and the immersion in the game world. It's not just about the mechanics.

What makes it compelling is finding it, seeing the system slowly laid out as I use the FSS, but as that would have already been done, that would have gone.

The mechanics are not what makes it compelling.

The FSS already fails under that logic because it knows where the bodies are, it only asks you to zoom in.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

No functionality was removed it was added with the FSS.

Whoops, proof by assertion.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The FSS already fails under that logic because it knows where the bodies are, it only asks you to zoom in.

That's because it a computer game and if we had no idea then we would be spending years trying to pinpoint a planet which would be no fun at all.

The FSS show us the locations of the gravity distortions of the bodies, we then have to find the body within the gravity distortion. It's not perfect, buts a damn site better then press a button for 5 seconds and I see all bodies in a system, in my view.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

That's because it a computer game and if we had no idea then we would be spending years trying to pinpoint a planet which would be no fun at all.

The FSS show us the locations of the gravity distortions of the bodies, we then have to find the body within the gravity distortion. It's not perfect, buts a damn site better then press a button for 5 seconds and I see all bodies in a system, in my view.

Well, that's just subjective, but at least try and be consistent with your complains.

 

[baqar79]

I think the problem for me with the FSS is that it doesn't replace the ADS, it replaces the DSS (Detailed Surface Scanner) with a long ranged version (admittedly much quicker as well).

The former ADS functionality (in particular for my purposes, the basic orbital information on bodies I used to get), no longer exists.

If the FSS could relay the information formerly available on the ADS, without requiring to zoom in an identify the body directly; perhaps by listing the same basic orbital information for signal sources under the reticle where the FSS is pointed, then finding the interesting orbital features that I could find with the previous ADS system would be less of a chore (at least no zooming in required, find a gas giant, quickly look at signal source orbital mechanics, if no match, move on).

 

[Stigbob]

Whoops, proof by assertion.

Loss of functionality requires removed functionality, with the FSS you have added functionality plus everything the ADS ever did.

Refusing to use it, which is what we have here is something else entirely.