Galaxy Map vs Multi-star Systems

[Reido]

Like a lot of explorer's I've been using the Galaxy map to view my approach angle into systems that have two or more stars to avoid any possible mishaps.

I recently had a bad encounter in a 3 star system where my approach angle into the system look just fine with the two secondary stars almost 90 degrees on either side of the primary, yet when I jumped into this system I went THROUGH one of the stars which made my entry almost perpendicular to what I expected.

I managed to survive that encounter and I've been paying MUCH more attention to what the Galaxy map is showing and how the system ACTUALLY looks when I arrive.

Here's an example:



This map view shows a system with 3 stars, the secondaries are close, but it's showing them on either side of the main star.

Here's what the system ACTUALLY looked like once I jumped in.



You'll notice that both secondary stars are orbiting EACH OTHER and couldn't possibly be on either side of the main star.

This is just one example of the secondary stars not being where the Galaxy map shows them to be.

If most explorer's didn't already know this, at least a lot of us have suspected this to be the case.

The bottom line is that you CAN'T use the Galaxy map to check see if your approach angle into a multi-star system is safe, the game just doesn't or can't put us into a system where we expected to be, or worse, tries to "help" us by adjusting our approach angle, but doing it badly sometimes.

The Galaxy map view can't even be used as a rough visual representation of the relative distances of the secondary stars. I looked at a 3 star system last night where both secondary stars looked quite far from the main star with one being "slightly" closer. When I jumped into this system one secondary was >46,000Ls away, BUT the other was only 40Ls away!

It's a complete crap shoot jumping into muti-stars systems as we're at the mercy of an opaque "black box" algorithm to place us into a system and have absolutely no control over how we approach our entry.



CMDR Andrew Reid

 

[Kancro Vantas]

Like a lot of explorer's I've been using the Galaxy map to view my approach angle into systems that have two or more stars to avoid any possible mishaps.

I recently had a bad encounter in a 3 star system where my approach angle into the system look just fine with the two secondary stars almost 90 degrees on either side of the primary, yet when I jumped into this system I went THROUGH one of the stars which made my entry almost perpendicular to what I expected.

I managed to survive that encounter and I've been paying MUCH more attention to what the Galaxy map is showing and how the system ACTUALLY looks when I arrive.

Here's an example:

View attachment 32395

This map view shows a system with 3 stars, the secondaries are close, but it's showing them on either side of the main star.

Here's what the system ACTUALLY looked like once I jumped in.

View attachment 32396

You'll notice that both secondary stars are orbiting EACH OTHER and couldn't possibly be on either side of the main star.

This is just one example of the secondary stars not being where the Galaxy map shows them to be.

If most explorer's didn't already know this, at least a lot of us have suspected this to be the case.

The bottom line is that you CAN'T use the Galaxy map to check see if your approach angle into a multi-star system is safe, the game just doesn't or can't put us into a system where we expected to be, or worse, tries to "help" us by adjusting our approach angle, but doing it badly sometimes.

The Galaxy map view can't even be used as a rough visual representation of the relative distances of the secondary stars. I looked at a 3 star system last night where both secondary stars looked quite far from the main star with one being "slightly" closer. When I jumped into this system one secondary was >46,000Ls away, BUT the other was only 40Ls away!

It's a complete crap shoot jumping into muti-stars systems as we're at the mercy of an opaque "black box" algorithm to place us into a system and have absolutely no control over how we approach our entry.



CMDR Andrew Reid

Impressive finding!!....

Errrm....for some reason I never expected or knew the GalMap could give me that much detail about the system...In other words, I have always gambled my entry to a system for the last 42,000 light years....with no accidents!

I would say is really extremely rare that you jump in the middle of two close binaries.. those explorer that report it, are heavy explorers for the most part and even so, I don't think any of them has have it twice!

Throttle down and you'll be fine 99% of the time ;-)

 

[Varrag]

Yeah, at first I've been also thinking that the galactic map view represents the relative positions of stars in multiple systems: sadly, it does not. As the matter of fact, not even the distance among the stars is always accurate.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Aye, the first time I arrived 'through' a star I literally lost 5 years off my life-expectancy..............

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Still trusting to luck, haven't landed in a binary ... yet.

Landed in the middle of four the other day, 3 within 'I'll roast you if you sneeze' range and the other a mere stone's throw over yonder. If you stick with zero-throttle upon jumping then you'll be fine. Maybe it's also the Anaconda, but I have never been dropped automatically out of SC due to heat upon re-entry and I have had a helluva lot of binaries. Maybe the re-entry points of ships differ and you are just that wee bitty safer in a Conda? Sure feels that way to me. The alternative is that I am sitting with the luck of the Devil as they say

 

[Reido]

Impressive finding!!....

Not all that impressive really. It's just a matter of perhaps having a little more time to play than the average player and after my virtual near death experience I finally decided to do take the time to do some careful observations.

I'm as guilty as the next explorer in just wanting to jump into the next system to see what's there, much like a little kid at Christmas time opening presents

Landed in the middle of four the other day, 3 within 'I'll roast you if you sneeze' range and the other a mere stone's throw over yonder. If you stick with zero-throttle upon jumping then you'll be fine. Maybe it's also the Anaconda, but I have never been dropped automatically out of SC due to heat upon re-entry and I have had a helluva lot of binaries. Maybe the re-entry points of ships differ and you are just that wee bitty safer in a Conda? Sure feels that way to me. The alternative is that I am sitting with the luck of the Devil as they say

I've been using the "zero throttle" method for ages now and it's become completely automatic, yet I still got bit by a star (it was one of the secondaries). I was still in SC, but I was so close that my fuel scoop engaged and I was so deep in the stars gravity well that I had to jump out as I would have burned up in the time it would have taken to get out of the stars upper atmosphere.

I believe FD added something in the last patch to help minimize the chance of a close encounter when jumping into a multi-star system, perhaps it just needs a little tweaking...

...or better yet, make the Galaxy map useful by allowing us "the player" to make the decision of what angle of approach is best as well as giving us a "rough" idea of the distances of any secondaries so we can make an informed decision whether a system is safe to jump into or not instead of leaving it to seemingly "blind chance".

Maybe I'm talking out my rear and it's simply not possible given the design of the game.

Anyway, I hope the OP is useful for some explorer's


CMDR Andrew Reid

 

[Orange Sheets]

This is just morning semantics, but maybe the galactic map shows the position/orientation of stars correctly, but the angle of entrance is random Sometimes when I've been travelling a "straight route" most of the system entries have been so that the next system is ahead of me as it should, but occasionally the next system is behind me.

So maybe the hyperdrive computer recalculates the approach constantly and sometimes takes the curved approach to kill the speed safely.

 

[Whiterose]

I usually look at the info, and if it is more than one star have a gander in realistic by spinning the galaxy round to see if they are close, and jump anyway, but am prepared for a possible crunch. Sods Law dictates its when I forget to look that I jump into a binary, its worse when one of them is a neutron, lost 400 systems worth of data once due to being in a dead end, couldnt move without burning, and got fried by the neutron star.

 

[Hellhawk666]

How foolhardy I am - I just jump, throttle down to zero in hyperspace and hope for the best. Only been singed once so far, and that was my error (hit boost by mistake).

 

[Reido]

This is just morning semantics, but maybe the galactic map shows the position/orientation of stars correctly, but the angle of entrance is random Sometimes when I've been travelling a "straight route" most of the system entries have been so that the next system is ahead of me as it should, but occasionally the next system is behind me.

So maybe the hyperdrive computer recalculates the approach constantly and sometimes takes the curved approach to kill the speed safely.

I've checked that many times as well.

On my current return trip I've got Barnard's Loop and the California Nebula off to my right on the Galaxy map for reference and then I line up my next multi-star system with my current system and then I take note of the positions of the secondary stars before I jump in. Once I'm in the new system I locate Barnard's loop which I can almost always see through the glare and position it to my right and then level the Galactic plane (most of which is on my left) and see where the secondary stars REALLY are in relation to where they appeared to be in the Galaxy map. Now I know that my entry point is at a different seemingly random location and I'm viewing the system from a different angle from what I saw on the map but the positions of almost all secondary stars are WAY off from where they would be if I use the radar and mentally put myself rotated around in the same position if viewed from the same angle "in system" as I was viewing it from the Galaxy map.

It's very late and the above paragraph reads back as VERY convoluted , but suffice it to say that I've been checking this for hours and with dozens of multi-star systems and the positions of the stars on the map almost never match or even come close to where they show up in-system, especially when the secondary stars are in a binary configuration, the map ALWAYS shows them as being on either side of the main star when they can't possibly be and never are of course once I arrive.

Half-hour past bedtime, I hope that makes sense, time to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


CMDR Andrew Reid

 

[DeadMeatGF]

... This map view shows a system with 3 stars, the secondaries are close, but it's showing them on either side of the main star ...
... You'll notice that both secondary stars are orbiting EACH OTHER and couldn't possibly be on either side of the main star ...

Being pedantic, from the right angle the secondary stars would be either side of, and behind the main star, so the map image could well be correct, just without the context of depth - it depends how it's generated.

 

[drkaii]

Just want to point out 2 things that are really important to this:

1. The place you arrive at a star is random, has nothing to do with where you came from. So there's no way to plan ahead, even if you could work out how close the stars are on the galmap (which you can't)
2. Even with zero throttle, it's still possible to arrive in close binary system and die as you could spawn right in the deep corona of the secondary star. It's a risk we all take as explorers and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's extremely extremely unlikely, but can and has happened to people (read around the forums). Nearly happened to my wing mate. You can see it here: https://youtu.be/zX4xGr3K2NA?t=245 (link jumps you to the right time). Watch it, that was a really amazing system!

 

[drkaii]

Nice frantic Blair Witch Project like footage there.

Looking further into the video, I see you like to get up close and personal with the planets as well.

Yep I'm a cowboy explorer, and risk and beauty are my game. I just replied to your thread and yes we seem to have similar tastes overall

 

[PanicButton]

I never even thought that the galaxy map shows realistic in-system positions. Always go in blind...probably always will.
The closest call i ever had was this:

Spoiler

I jumped up from the chair, because i didn't expect it, but it wasn't actually dangerous.

 

[CMDR AKIRA MASAKARI]

Yeah, i tried to rely on galmap but it's useless. Probably it is "accurate" when it shows stars very far, you can assume it's a safe jump. But if the stars are close, you cannot tell how close and neither their position between themself and your entry point. So basically i've lost the habit to check the galmap before jumping. And never ever happened something bad. Now since i rely on luck, i shouldn't have written this post, you know, Murphy's laws and all.

 

[Reido]

I don't mind there being risks in jumping into a system...there should always be risks, but I would like the ability to make an informed decision as to whether the risk of jumping into an iffy system is worth it if I've been out for weeks exploring and not leave it to blind chance.

Take for example a recent encounter I had. I wanted to make a jump into a system with 4 stars, I looked at the Galaxy map and it showed the secondaries were close but on either side perpendicular to the main star, I knew it would be risky, but I made what I thought was an informed decision to jump in there after taking the risks into account.

I made the jump and went through one of the secondary stars, having arrived about 90 degrees from what I expected and started to cook off deep in the stars atmosphere.

Having just survived that encounter is what's prompted me to take some observations and realize that it's just blind luck instead of making an informed decision on the part of the pilot that determines whether we die when entering a multi-star system.

I would like to see the navigation system be made more useful for us pilots for plotting a course manually and also to have less "interference" from hidden algorithms working behind the scenes trying to "help" us stay out of trouble.

Let ALL the responsibility for any risks lie in the hands of the informed player.


CMDR Andrew Reid